Why Sorcs need a nerf

[Sabbathius]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong...WRONG!

 

Sorcerers need a nerf because unlike every other class they have a huge resource pool that regenerates linearly. NO OTHER AC IN THE WHOLE DARN GAME has that! A Sorcerer can cast what he wants, when he wants, without paying the slightest attention to the resource bar. THAT'S the problem!

 

A Sorc is DPSing. A Sorc sees he needs to use a CC. Sorcerer presses the button, CC happens. He never even looks at his force bar.

 

Now compare that to a Sith Warrior. Sith warrior is DPSing. Sith Warrior realizes he needs to do a CC or an interrupt. Whoops! No rage, because he mismanaged his resource. He dies.

 

Compare that to a BH. A BH is DPSing. A BH realizes he has to CC. Whoops! He's overheated because he wasn't paying attention to his heat bar. He dies.

 

Problem with Sorcerers is NOT the skills and the CCs and whatnot. First and foremost is that they can do whatever they want on demand without having to hold back. As a BH, I constantly hold back DPS to keep my cooling optimal. As a sniper I constantly hold back on DPS to keep energy regen optimal. As a Sith Warrior, I constantly have to hold back DPS to keep a few surplus rage for CC/interrupts. But as a Sorc, you can go balls-to-the-wall DPS and not worry about a thing.

 

Nerf that, and you'll fix the class. Or buff all other classes, give everyone 600 heat, 600 energy, 600 rage, etc. Then we'll be even.

[SandTrout]

so you win 50/50 against a sorc and complain that they are too OP and have too much utility? I don't understand your issue if you win 50/50, that sounds very balanced to me. Is the problem that you feel you should dominate the sorc/sage class and win all the time?

In pure DPS race, yes, because a Sorc also provides significant force multiplier effect for the rest of his team, meaning that the Sorc provides as much damage as the sniper, and has better tools to make his teammates more effective than the sniper does, making the Sorc the clearly supperior class.

[Orangerascal]

Ofcourse they should have an advantage.

 

But when they have this improved survivability, they still have good damage, force shield (which absorbs a ton of damage), force run, good healing and lots of CC with it, something is wrong.

 

So you're saying they didn't have this before the expertise gear? Im confused as to how champion gear improves all this against someone in equivalent gear.

 

If you're saying that the sorc scales better than other classes, you're gravely mistakened. Here's my challenge again ... show a ss of a sorc with a 5k damage medal. I can you show that each of the other callings including tank classes can achieve this medal consistently.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Bullsith]

The only thing I want to see removed from sorcs and Sages is the sprint. That sould be a shadow/assassin only ability. Right now they have way too much survivability.

[ComeAndSee]

I'm not trying to say Sorc's are a one button DPS class, but why isn't there any depth or rotations? Force Lightning is just so dang good there's no real reason to use anything else in PvP.

 

I play a Vanguard and we do have some sentiment of a rotation, but we also have a resource system that the less ammo you have the slower your regen so you have to manage your resources and keep above 50%. Also, our highest DPS abilities all have CDs.

[swredrage]

you could say something similar for troopers/BHs.

 

They have heals, burst, debuffs and some cc

 

Oh yeah smugglers/operatives. .. heals, burst and cc

 

warriors? ok lacking heals but have burst, cc and never die.

 

as for Sorcs. If you spec heal, damage is hard to come by. lightning, has 2 insta-cast damage abilities, Affliction and Shock. Affliction does no damage upfront and shock has a 6sec CD. Chain lightning can be insta-cast if you get a proc form the one lightning ability that i can't remember right now. and force lightning is channeled and each tick is fairly low dmg. The burst ability has a 6 second cool down fairly long cast time and NEEDS a dot to be effective

 

I havn't played the 3rd tree, Madness (dots), much.

 

Healing as a dps sorc is also extremely underwhelming. a 1.5sec cast time for 1kish non-crit heal or 3sec for a 2kish non-crit. Also with very little force management with healing abilities, you pay ALOT when trying to heal.

 

CCs? have 2 + 2 with talent. electrocute short stun, whirlwind are base. the force stomp (or whatever its called) can immobilize you for a couple seconds and the shield can proc a mini flash bang. the last 2 being talented.

 

taking down a healing sorc is all about interrupts and lockouts.

 

TL:DR;

 

every class has some utility, you are over estimating the sorc/sage abilities.

[Artharin]

I agree with the OP. I have a buddy who plays a sorc and he's always telling me how ridiculous they are in PvP. On a side note; I feel like a jet pack powered god on my Powertech.

 

Where is all this "Scoundrel's being OP" talk coming from? I have a level 21 Scoundrel and he's not been very effective in PvP at all.

[Orangerascal]

I'm not trying to say Sorc's are a one button DPS class, but why isn't there any depth or rotations? Force Lightning is just so dang good there's no real reason to use anything else in PvP.

 

Probably because we heal and dps. I personally have a 6 button dps rotation.

 

FIB -> WM -> TT until proc -> TW -> TT until proc -> MC -> Project

 

TT = Force lightning equivalent

FIB = PB AOE attack

WM = DOT

TW = big aoe hit

MC = DD + DOT

Project = Instant cast DD

 

 

The only time i'm immobile is when channeling TT or healing (3 sec heal). The rotation changed on the fly depending if I need to move.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Astiria]

If you had bothered to actually read my opening post, instead of triggering you defense-mechanics immediately after reading the name of the thread, you would see that I clearly state that it's not their DAMAGE that makes them OP, it's their damage combined with their utility..

 

 

So if Snipers are ranged tanks in cover, how come I can duel an equally geared Sorc (we're both Valor rank 58) open field, just a pure DPS race, with him winning 50% of the time? Shouldn't I be able to outDPS him by a good margin because I do not have utility at all??

 

 

Simple answer ... no you shouldnt. Because if its 50-50 then its kinda clear you got more damage and he has less damage but more utility - to compensate for your higher dmg output

 

As someone else already stated, you cant balance PVP for 1vs1, its group based.

 

Thanks for proving our point

[Qlimitus]

The CC and instant cast abilities all come from the same tree which relies on DoTs for damage. It is not doing instant cast spike damage. The shield has a 10 CD BUT it can't be reused on someone for 30 seconds. The shield will still be useless if you concentrate on them.

 

The burst doesn't occur if you also have the instant long CC and the instant DoTs.

 

Heals are garbage - 3 sec heal and a 1.5 heal - if you aren't spec'd for healing. They are both highly inefficient. And who in the hell has time for a 3 sec cast?? Even if you are fully decked out in PvP Expertise gear, and you force a crit, it will only heal for about 3k. What is that? 1 skill?

 

Sounds like you are being intimidated by the lightning more than the actual skills. A smart Sorc has a lot of tools at his disposal, but none of them are going to help unless he has teammates around. A Sorc can't kill someone before their CC runs out.

 

 

Static shield has a 20 second CD.

[Qlimitus]

They should just run out of force so they NEED to manage their resource. The fact that these classes do not need to to worry about their resources for dps is huge advantage.

 

We do run out of force,fast too.You obviously have no idea on how a sorc is played.

[dugligur]

Do a 1v1 with a 50 sorcerer/sage with "equal" gear and post it. I want to see why you think they are overpowered...

[Orangerascal]

We do run out of force,fast too.You obviously have no idea on how a sorc is played.

 

Exactly .. I have to park beside the life giving buffs in WF's, just so I can convert life -> force.

 

For those wondering - non healing sorcs spend 70% of their force to heal themselves to full. We would rather just run out of combat. Other classes can either stealth out or use energy replenishing abilities and others just build energy instead of deplete them.

 

This never going OOF myth is so funny.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Qlimitus]

The biggest issue with sages/sorcs are their op dfensive cooldowns:

 

Knockback -> Sprint -> Shield

 

 

All of these have very short cds - 20/20/30 sec cd if I am not mistaken.

 

Simple pressing these 3 buttons in a row you should NEVER die unless zerged 10vs1.

 

And yes also they ignore all tour defense.

And yes also they have insta ccs and heals.

 

Hell at least operatives can be bursted down if catched in the right moment.

 

Is it too much what do you think?

 

Overload is a chance to work * its not 100% and i mean ever * 2 second force run is no time at all ( ive been stunned doing force run and i lose my force run before the stun runs out )

 

If you can't beat a sorc,you are the ones that fail.The end.

[SandTrout]

We do run out of force,fast too.You obviously have no idea on how a sorc is played.

Not nearly as quickly as a Sniper can dump all his energy, and our regeneration is non-linear, so if we drop bellow 60%, we start dropping more rapidly.

[Tservo]

Poor gear Sorcs are squishy as hell, but when you start seeing Valor rank 50+ Sorcs with Champion/Battlemaster gear you begin to see a massive improvement in there survivability.

 

Against lower geared and levels, yes. Same gear or higher = a very quick death with 2 on you, tough to survive with just one.

[Qlimitus]

Exactly .. I have to park beside the life giving buffs in WF's, just so I can convert life -> force.

 

For those wondering - non healing sorcs spend 70% of their force to heal themselves to full. We would rather just run out of combat. Other classes can either stealth out or use energy replenishing abilities and others just build energy instead of deplete them.

 

This never going OOF myth is so funny.

 

Exactly ! You hit the nail on the head =]

[Jordan_Hoffman]

I didnt read any posts in this thread. Not even the OP's. Let me just say that Auto-Lightning/Project is both silly and hilarious. I want to make one so I dont have to try anymore.

 

On a side note how come most of early Rank 60 exploiters in full Battlemaster gear are mostly Sorcs/Sages? Hmmmmmmm, auto lightning anyone? Lets easily rank to 60 with exploits and then easily farm noobs with auto attack. Nough said

[Orangerascal]

Not nearly as quickly as a Sniper can dump all his energy, and our regeneration is non-linear, so if we drop bellow 60%, we start dropping more rapidly.

 

good thing you have adrenaline probe on a 2 minute cooldown then huh.

[Mossesman]

So you're saying they didn't have this before the expertise gear? Im confused as to how champion gear improves all this against someone in equivalent gear.

 

If you're saying that the sorc scales better than other classes, you're gravely mistakened. Here's my challenge again ... show a ss of a sorc with a 5k damage medal. I can you show that each of the other callings including tank classes can achieve this medal consistently.

 

As people have stated before, lots of the Sorc damage comes from dots, so ofcourse they dont reach 5k as often, although i think your overreacting with tanks doing 5k ticks, unless you can provide a screenshot, as in the 100+ warzones ive done ive never seen a tank more than a 3k damage hit.

 

I will also clarify a bit on my first post, and it seemed to of given off a different impression than i intended. The arguement that "Sorcs/Sages are really squishy" becomes moot once they have high enough gear. Ive seen sorcs have more health and more armor than tanks.

[SandTrout]

good thing you have adrenaline probe on a 2 minute cooldown then huh.

We can go through our entire energy pool+ AP before a sorc or sage will run out of energy.

[Slechtvalk]

The only thing I want to see removed from sorcs and Sages is the sprint. That sould be a shadow/assassin only ability. Right now they have way too much survivability.

 

well were is the problem? i can survive 2 enemies, and what can i else? i cant kill them, they cant kill me? sounds fair? and i cant keep myself alive and my whole party...

[Qlimitus]

I didnt read any posts in this thread. Not even the OP's. Let me just say that Auto-Lightning/Project is both silly and hilarious. I want to make one so I dont have to try anymore.

 

On a side note how come most of early Rank 60 exploiters in full Battlemaster gear are mostly Sorcs/Sages? Hmmmmmmm, auto lightning anyone? Lets easily rank to 60 with exploits and then easily farm noobs with auto attack. Nough said

 

Personally before you start throwing wild accusations around,ide gather some evidence first.You have just made yourself looks noob by throwing wild garbage into the forums.Auto lighting? seriously? LOl!!!!

Sorc exploits ? Really ? LOL !!!

[SandTrout]

I will also clarify a bit on my first post, and it seemed to of given off a different impression than i intended. The arguement that "Sorcs/Sages are really squishy" becomes moot once they have high enough gear. Ive seen sorcs have more health and more armor than tanks.

Allright, this is an entirely non-relavent point. Comparing differing gear levels is a completely different issue than class balance, and is an invalid argument.

[Qlimitus]

We can go through our entire energy pool+ AP before a sorc or sage will run out of energy.

 

Then you suck at your class,reroll something else you might be good at.