Very tired of premades !!

[ArchangelLBC]

Well said. The fact that this game is an MMO is no reason to force your players to dance around other people's schedules to avoid a frustrating game experience. Look I am in one of the most active PvP guilds on my server, have a friends list close to 15+, and still only manage premades around 60% of the time due to time schedules, logging on when people have full groups, people quitting due to the overwhelmingly poor PvP experience, no interest at the time for PvP and instead them running PvE; despite all this I still DO NOT enjoy having to dance around everyone and their mother's schedule to play in a fair or semi sufferable environment.

 

The vast (and I mean vast) majority of the player base is composed of casual, PUG minded individuals, the overwhelmingly small minority are people that find it reasonable for PUG Vs Premade Warzones to exist. Do the math please. If Bioware keeps this system, the game will kill itself and the majority of the frustrated player base that for whatever reason does not have access to a premade 100% of the time, will quit. PUG Vs Premade needs to be phased out completely the second the population/matchmaking pool can handle it. We need Cross Realm Function, Adequate Matchmaking and Split Queues, desperately; it makes for a far more solid, versatile, and fair system for both PUGs and premades a like at the cost of only losing one aspect of the game: PUG Vs Premade, which is pure gold for the cost of a grossly unwanted, worthless and disgusting game play flaw (PUG Vs Premade).

 

Please cite your sources for your claim that the cast majority of the player base is composed of casual PuG minded individuals. Almost every warzone I participate in has a premade on the other team, and as often as not there's a second premade on my own team.

 

Also my only other previous MMO experience was FFXI, and when I played it if you wanted to do ANYTHING AT ALL you needed a group, usually of 6 or more. We're lucky the state of the genre has advanced enough to the point where you can do anything solo besides sitting on fleet twiddling your thumbs or sitting on your ship making sure the droid is keeping it clean.

 

I think solid matchmaking with cross server queues for a strong enough base to DO that matchmaking would solve alot of problems. Might even make ranked less of a gank fest and people might actually do it. Split queues run into problems with backfill if people drop from the premade vs premade one for one reason or another (connection issues is one I've had problems with in the past). You may say well that's just too bad for the premade people, but I say that if anyone should get screwed in an MMO it's you solo queuers. Yes I'm going to take the position that favors my playstyle. That rebuttal would have more force if you solo queuers weren't doing the same exact thing, only with more whining.

 

You think you're the only ones that get destroyed by fully geared mix/maxed war hero geared pre-mades? Everyone not already on the top of their local PVP food chain has that problem. That isn't a premade problem. That's a geared and skilled vs not as geared and not as skilled problem.

[ScribbleC]

The vast (and I mean vast) majority of the player base is composed of casual, PUG minded individuals, the overwhelmingly small minority are people that find it reasonable for PUG Vs Premade Warzones to exist. Do the math please. If Bioware keeps this system, the game will kill itself and the majority of the frustrated player base that for whatever reason does not have access to a premade 100% of the time, will quit. PUG Vs Premade needs to be phased out completely the second the population/matchmaking pool can handle it. We need Cross Realm Function, Adequate Matchmaking and Split Queues, desperately; it makes for a far more solid, versatile, and fair system for both PUGs and premades a like at the cost of only losing one aspect of the game: PUG Vs Premade, which is pure gold for the cost of a grossly unwanted, worthless and disgusting game play flaw (PUG Vs Premade).

 

Correct. This is what I did on my valor 80-ish sniper - I simply stopped going to the level 50 PvP. Quit, had enough, do not enjoy, don't want to take part. I tried a PUG for one warzone a couple of nights ago. No thanks, cya. I'm not going to get farmed for someone else's enjoyment. Not just me either, I had a couple of friends who used to play the game as well, keyword there being 'used'. Past tense. Sure this is all anecdotal evidence, but...

 

Go to the lowbie PvP. It's genuinely more fun, because the chances of running into a fully organised premade is rather slim. You get the goods, the bads, strangely-geared people and so on, but on the whole the experience is much more enjoyable. The win-loss ratio in there has been much more even than it ever was on level 50, where the majority of the nights I needed four warzones to complete the stupid daily before I quit.

 

Then again, I guess Bioware doesn't really give a ****, because I am still playing.

 

I posted my interpretation of a possible solution on some other thread, but the fact is that without cross-server the populations simply won't support separate queues, or so we are made to believe. Here it is again, for what it's worth.

 

1. Solo Queue. Solo only, rewards let's say 1/3 to 1/2 of the coms and valor of the normal queue. Perfect for those who just want to play PvP on a roughly equal footing with the other team.

2. Normal Queue. The current queue system. Same rewards as at the moment, but you can/will face groups. Can be solo-queued, if you have say valor rank 50+. Open to anyone in a group.

3. Ranked Queue. Full 8-man grouped queue. Lots of coms, credits and access to unique gear (not friggen re-coloured sets of existing gear) and unique titles.

[yoshikage-sama]

aaaah pugs. dont worry about the objective, just kill each other. thats why you all complain and qq and then you wonder why you lost. its nice to be able to play with 3 other people who know what theyre doing, Edited December 7, 2012 by yoshikage-sama

[DariusCalera]

Of course it must be the premades that are ruining everything.

 

It couldn't possibly be the players that jump into a WZ in PvE gear because they once heard someone say "PvE gear is just as good as PvP".

 

Or someone wearing PvP gear into a WZ that in no way enhances their chances of survival or DPS/Heal output. (i.e. commandos wearing Super Commando armor)

 

Nope, surely couldn't be anything along those lines as to why some teams get roflstomped.

[orenjee]

Okay As someone who runs pre-mades and solo queue I'd like to state that pre-mades usually go against other pre-mades. (And no I don't run them to faceroll pugs. I run them to save myself from being destroyed as a healer. You can't survive long in 50 pvp without a good tank) From when ranked wz's were implemented I noticed pops changed for regular warzones. If you q with a pre-made during an unpopular time you get q's hyper slow because the system is trying to match you against another pre-made.

 

I thought that was pretty cool. But what's ****** about the pre-made preference system is it doesn't try to match even skilled or numbered pre-mades. So basically, You probably have at least one mini pre-made on your team, 2 casual players or so, which is why you end up facing a massive four person war hero lolsmash fest. I believe the true solution to this is to expand ranked warzones to really carrying more weight and proof of one's epeen.

 

If ranked warzones could be done with smaller teams more like wow's arenas and there was a reward system visible to all players that indicated wins and losses and "ranking". I'm pretty sure alot of the premades would see the reward to regular warzones as insignificant and time wasting. What about the mean spirited lazy pvpers who get stomped in ranked pvp and go back to regular? I've seen pugs beat pre-mades many times before and 9 times out of ten it's the ****** pre-mades who lose to all the other pre-mades.

 

My biggest fear of seperate q's is... This isn't a huge game. If we start dividing players into groups and those lines don't blur we simply won't have anyone to pvp with. Yeah that's my take on it.

 

In short: Don't isolate the pre-mades just make it easier for them to make a name for themselves by making smaller warzones allowing 6, 4, and two man groups. Offer special titles, vanity item to express ranking. Leave stats out of it if possible. It'd make the problem even bigger if they only did arenas to roll pugs even harder.

[Ycoga]

Should just make it where pre-mades only face pre-mades. Pugs play pugs... would make it alot more enjoyable for everyone. Any queued group with 3 or more people in it goes to pre-made queue, less then that goes to pug queue.

 

I presume a typo here? A group is 2 or more people. o_o

[CommanderKeeva]

We have a thread 167 pages long discussing the exact same issue here btw:

 

Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Helig]

There should be a separate queue for premades, plain and simple. I'd rather wait for 20-30 mins while doing dailies and chatting on teamspeak (which we basically do when we queue for rated matches) and get a decent fight rather than farm pugs with 5 min queues. It's not challenging, it gets old quickly and this marginal amount of "fun" is done at the expense of other players, who are, in some cases, trying out level 50 PvP in their Recruit gear.

 

Not a good way to welcome someone into a non-prison community.

[Polebreaker]

We have a thread 167 pages long discussing the exact same issue here btw:

 

Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

 

Someone thought it'd be cool to reply to an 11 month old thread here instead...

[SajPl]

I want solo operations so I dont have to play with people ... after all I play an mmo to play alone.

[Evanouss]

I am tired of forums posts in which individuals treat an MMO like a classic FPS-Multiplayer experience.

 

And apparently it is impossible to play as a pre-made in SWTOR for fun and without malice.

 

You were destroyed by a Pre-Made...join the club.

 

God forbid you try to work with the team you spawn with, set up a plan before the shields go down, and work like a team in a team based PVP enviornment.

 

Of course, that would never work.

 

Grabbing a couple of random people and queing together does not equate to what many solo quers have been facing in WZ's. Yes I could grab a couple of random people on my side and w/o vent, w/o a workable knowledge of their playstyle, w/o their or my FULL set of WH gear, we might survive a few seconds longer. Why do premade groups even want to face pugs in the first place besides rofl stomp? Don't premades want a challenge? Now im not talking about the few times ive faced 2 or even 3 people pugs thats fine I can deal with that. What im speaking on is full wh/ranked teams entering pug ques and locking down all 3 nodes because they are on a different level of play then a casual, random group of people. There needs to be a seperate que for 4+ people.

[Veniras]

We need Cross Realm Function, Adequate Matchmaking and Split Queues, desperately;

 

Cross server and split queues are not coming. Adequate matchmaking is in th planning stages.

[-IceHawk-]

<SNIP> (And the rest of this thread in general...)

So, in short, you are tired of teams with better gear, better coordination, and superior overall skill winning in PVP.

 

Your solution to introduce "fairness" into the system is to fashion a system that would penalize individuals who would like to play an MMO with their friends by slotting them into a highly selective and longer Que process while rewarding individuals who do not play together by removing any form of coordinated opposition from the zone.

 

Yeah, this is a reasoned argument, not a QQ thread in the least...

[chaosmadness]

I log in and enjoy PVP. I mostly solo the warzones but 80% am thrown against premades being annihilated, getting less valor and generally logging in to provide others the joy of entertainment at my expense, figuratively and literally.

 

I have nothing against premades vs premades but honestly, I don't like to say I'll quit over the issue but I did quit Warhammer after two years because of the issue, which alot actually felt the same way.

 

No, I shouldn't have to join a guild if I am not ready just to enjoy the game and most times I am in the top 5 damage and kills but when the wz is lost, 600 valor after 15 minutes of getting pulled, stunned, chain blasted, focused and punted is less than fun.

 

Yep, i agree with this. Premades are screwing up the fun of doing normal warzones.

I like do warzones in solo but playing against Elite WH premades atm takes all the fun.

PVP at the moment Its like "ress...stun...dead...ress...stun...dead..." and this s**t every warzone. I see some threads about this here in the site and BW says nothing...

[TheBigBee]

Have you ever even played Call of Duty?

 

Also, I think its hilarious that BW gave TOR a system for competive ranked play and that nobody uses it - because the elite hardcore pvp guilds would rather go into a regular warzone and stroke their epeens playing against uncoordinated pugs.

 

You dont get it.....us hardcore pvper didnt stop doing rated.... we made everyone else stop when they found out there epeens were not as big

 

They cry about playing us...in regs and in rated....

[Eillack]

How hard is it to find someone in this game and ask them if they want to group.....I mean, its not like you have to hold hands and share a toothbrush, am I the only one that thinks that people who go to play on an MMO and find people grouping up for ques, is completely normal.

 

and a lot of people like to mindlessly pew pew, and hate any kind of objective play, which is why you lose objectives, which in turns makes you lose match. If you want a more competitve team, GO GROUP WITH ONE

 

It's not easy haha. Remember this is the TOR community.

[RankorSSGS]

Your single player game is that way ----------->

 

Welcome to MMO's.

[FloppyRabbit]

Simple fix , SOLO QUE = Solo ! no group.

Group QUE = Groups queing against Groups.

 

Will make Warzones so much more fun for solo players

 

And group players can enjoy a challenge for once.

 

It is so simple yet so hard for bioware do it.

[Pvtcarnage]

I could argue that you are limiting yourself by restricting yourself to few people whereas others are open for social contacts whereas the others are much more open to group with new people which is much more mmo like.

 

But let's be honest, the majority of premades simply exists because people like to grind pugs and try to avoid a challenge. The best example therefore provided WoW. It was nearly comedy gold when premades sent in one "spotter" to check out if it is another premade (then the rest of the group wouldn't accept the battleground invite).

 

So please, do not even try to get the moral highground here.

 

 

Belief it or not, the ones who spend the most money on the game are the casual players, not the hardcore ones. Sorry, hardcore is relative because the queue lines for premade WZs would be infinite if they existed. I wonder why... /chuckle

 

Oh and btw, I have tried the premade stuff now and then. I cannot get any entertainment out of it by steamrolling pugs. The only fun part is getting equal organized groups as opponents.

 

The bold statement Shows a high amount of ignorance and just down right a troll attempt of the stupid kind. No body is stupid enough to be leave that most people who are premade do it for reason stated.

 

You should be mad at BW and not at people who are playing the games as intended. BW is fixing the gear gap in 1.6 and has a better match making system in the works.

[SlimsPicken]

What kills me, absolutely kills me, is how every developer keeps repeating the EXACT same mistakes every other developer has made in the past 15 years of MMOs. Every, single, bloody one! It's like these people ENJOY reinventing the wheel.

 

Isnt the old saying "doing the same thing that didnt work and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity" or something to that effect.

 

I cant even imagine the devs like doing the things they put in game over and over and over again....so why do they think anyone else will enjoy it? Or maybe they do enjoy it, and they are as out of touch with humanity as I fear.

[Pvtcarnage]

funny how every person, that obviously joins only premades is always against premade only que system. "But it would take too ,long..cry cry waa waa. " Alot of people like the game just to play the game, they dont have any friends that play the game so they go it alone. Enjoyable pvp should not be for the hardcore premaders only. Premade only que's, solve a lot of problems, and hey if you want faster que times SOLO QUE.

 

I also Pug as much as I group with friends and I am against the idea because it is a very stupid one, premade only que only helps you and not the community as a whole. But thank god BW understands this and is fixing the match making system. And btw a solo only que can easily be abused too and you would be right back here crying.

[Pvtcarnage]

Simple fix , SOLO QUE = Solo ! no group.

Group QUE = Groups queing against Groups.

 

Will make Warzones so much more fun for solo players

 

And group players can enjoy a challenge for once.

 

It is so simple yet so hard for bioware do it.

 

What if my group is only 2-3 people? do we get a special que to?

[Pvtcarnage]

There should be a separate queue for premades, plain and simple. I'd rather wait for 20-30 mins while doing dailies and chatting on teamspeak (which we basically do when we queue for rated matches) and get a decent fight rather than farm pugs with 5 min queues. It's not challenging, it gets old quickly and this marginal amount of "fun" is done at the expense of other players, who are, in some cases, trying out level 50 PvP in their Recruit gear.

 

Not a good way to welcome someone into a non-prison community.

 

It may be boring, but for some it's also about making comms, why should solo que folks have the fastest way to gear for the least amount of effort? And just because you don't mind the long que I'm sure many more would rather not. And not every game is not a faceroll either. I started 50 pvp solo queing and had a few imp teams that rolled us all the time, but since I like pvp and have played pvp in many games, I understood I would need to group to get better odds. It's just a fact

Edited December 7, 2012 by Pvtcarnage

[Pvtcarnage]

Grabbing a couple of random people and queing together does not equate to what many solo quers have been facing in WZ's. Yes I could grab a couple of random people on my side and w/o vent, w/o a workable knowledge of their playstyle, w/o their or my FULL set of WH gear, we might survive a few seconds longer. Why do premade groups even want to face pugs in the first place besides rofl stomp? Don't premades want a challenge? Now im not talking about the few times ive faced 2 or even 3 people pugs thats fine I can deal with that. What im speaking on is full wh/ranked teams entering pug ques and locking down all 3 nodes because they are on a different level of play then a casual, random group of people. There needs to be a seperate que for 4+ people.

 

Yes premades want a challenge, so get a good group going and join us in the que.

 

After 1.6 gear will no longer be a issue, and soon after better match making. I suggest you go play the easy PvE content until then because it does not challenge you.

[Helig]

It may be boring, but for some it's also about making comms, why should solo que folks have the fastest way to gear for the least amount of effort? And just because you don't mind the long que I'm sure many more would rather not. And not every game is not a faceroll either. I started 50 pvp solo queing and had a few imp teams that rolled us all the time, but since I like pvp and have played pvp in many games, I understood I would need to group to get better odds. It's just a fact

They could make solo queues award 30% less comms, if greed is so great a factor.

 

Get this - a premade team often leaves the opposing team with bare minimums of commendations. They just butcher them damn fast. As a premade player, if we play against a pug (admittedly guilty - for the sake of trying stuff out), I get 145 comms, right? When I solo queue on my, say, Commando alt, I risk getting 40 or less if we get pitted against a coordinated premade group.

So you'd rather have premades literally farming pugs? That's the definition of "one man's fun is another's hell" right here. It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. Getting farmed is the opposite of fun. Fighting on equal terms, however, is. Allow people to fight on equal terms. This isn't too much to ask, is it?

 

Want more competitive play? Encourage it, don't force it on people. WoW forced competition in TBC=>WOTLK (Arenas were the sole source of best PvP gear which had a very noticeable gap with "casual" gear, permades farmed pugs, win-traded with alts, etc, etc), and the PvP portion of the community went downhill since then.

Yes premades want a challenge, so get a good group going and join us in the que.

 

After 1.6 gear will no longer be a issue, and soon after better match making. I suggest you go play the easy PvE content until then because it does not challenge you.

Wouldn't get my hopes up about matchmaking. BW is known for taking the "safe" route - to avoid making it overbearing, they'll likely make it so soft that it'll be barely noticeable.

 

Problem is - some people just want to kick back and enjoy some PvP. I know I do sometimes after a hard day - without picking up my mic, without gathering my crowd (they can simply be unavailable). Without getting farmed. Competitive play is for the competitive bracket, because there's nothing competitive about throwing a premade against a pickup group.

 

"Go play PvE". Facepalm. Bad. Just... bad.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Helig