Juggernaut is broken.

[Ancipital]

I've been leveling a Juggernaut and it was fine until mid 30's and then the class felt very squishy and the dps dropped off (as did the quests but that is another story). At 41 there is a class quest to go back to Quesh and enter a 41 instance and here is where the problem is.

 

I'm 41 and the mobs are also 41. I cannot kill two 41 Strongs in full Juggernaut spec. My dps is so low that they reheal faster than I can kill them along with my companion, and after a 2 minute fight of stalemate I decided this grindfest of a game needs some serious rebalancing.

 

Did anyone seriously do beta testing on this class as a solo player?

 

The higher I get the worse Juggernaut has become for solo play, never mind how much more Flashpoint tanking has become brutally awkward with large amounts of mobs to handle, few AoE abilities and anyone able to steal aggro.

 

I cant see the point (and I've tanked in many other MMO's like WoW, Rift etc) to this class other than some masochistic time sink.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Ancipital

[DropbearSW]

The class is not broken. I am using Jaesa for DPS. I am soloing in Voss at lvl 42 and having no issues at all as an Immortal Spec. Jaesa does stupid amounts of damage and all you need to do is stay alive long enough for her to kill things.

 

The supposed tough boss fight at the end of Belsaeris (sp?) I one shotted three levels below the recommended class level.

 

I am not trying to blow my own horn here. I'm an ordinary player. All I've done is spent some money on kitting myself and my companion out.

[Ancipital]

I disagree.

 

If in full (ie all points only in) Juggernaut tank spec with appropriate level gear, and fighting 2 level 41 strongs there is no way to win other than a long protracted fight over several minutes until an inevitable death then the class needs some serious investigation.

 

Nobody is asking for faceroll DPS just an ability to win on what should be an winable fight.

 

No other class seems to be encountering such difficulties.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Ancipital

[Riordanwilliams]

I disagree.

 

If in full (ie all points only in) Juggernaut tank spec with appropriate level gear, and fighting 2 level 41 strongs there is no way to win other than a long protracted fight over several minutes until an inevitable death then the class needs some serious investigation.

 

Nobody is asking for faceroll DPS just an ability to win on what should be an winable fight.

 

No other class seems to be encountering such difficulties.

 

Perhaps you should read what I wrote then

 

I *AM* soloing three levels above me class wise, in full Immortal Spec Juggernaut Tank and having no issues at all..

 

Jaesa and I can clear a mob of four 45's in a minute .. and this is at 42. Two of them being strong.

 

If you're not winning fights at your level then I suggest the problem is probably your gear, or your companions gear.. Spend those credits.. Bolster your shield and defence.. Endurance becomes your top stat.. It doesnt matter if your DPS sucks because Jaesa is the one doing the damage..

 

Seriously. don't tell me I can't do what I'm doing right now. Like I said, I'm no expert in this game but I am having no problems at all on Voss at 41/42.

 

The fact you're whining about DPS dropping off means you're not playing it right.. You're not a DPS machine, you're an endurance machine. Take the agro, take the burns and let Jaesa do her stuff..

 

The only fights lasting more than 60 seconds are elite fights.

 

Use your defensive cool-downs. Use Stims (I use might stims to make up some of the strength I sacrifice for Endurance items).

 

Keep your gear levelled.

 

The immortal juggernaut tank is not a hard class to play, and it's dead easy to solo.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Riordanwilliams

[omninull]

The class is not broken. I am using Jaesa for DPS. I am soloing in Voss at lvl 42 and having no issues at all as an Immortal Spec. Jaesa does stupid amounts of damage and all you need to do is stay alive long enough for her to kill things.

 

The supposed tough boss fight at the end of Belsaeris (sp?) I one shotted three levels below the recommended class level.

 

I am not trying to blow my own horn here. I'm an ordinary player. All I've done is spent some money on kitting myself and my companion out.

 

Yeah, because you're probably fighting 43-45 lvl mobs. There's no way you can be fighting strong/group or elite mobs four+ levels above you, simply because of the leveling mechanics. You'll be doing reduced damage and a lot of your abilities will be resisted.

On top of that, you're specced Immortal.

Edited January 15, 2012 by omninull

[ServvsUmbrarum]

I was having a similar issue with my Juggernaut before I hit 50. I went on general chat and discussed it with a few non-warriors and the issue maybe more of the level / planet than our class as they seemed to be commenting on the overall difficulty (as in a spike) of the areas we were fighting in. I believe it was Hoth if that helps.

 

The biggest complaint I've about our class right now is the itemization for a tank vs. other roles in the game.

[DropbearSW]

Yeah, because you're probably fighting 43-45 lvl mobs. There's no way you can be fighting strong/group or elite mobs four+ levels above you, simply because of the leveling mechanics. You'll be doing reduced damage and a lot of your abilities will be resisted.

On top of that, you're specced Immortal.

 

Yes.. Im fighting 45 level strong at 42... thats what I said.. so given that if you're fighting at your own level then its really no contest...

 

Can solo 45 elites at 42 although doing so takes a while and needs careful management of agro so that Jaesa doesnt die, but to say the class is broken is simply rubbish..

 

The key for me?? At about 30 I got rid of my "might" gear, and my crit bonuses and replaced them all with guardian gear and shield, defence and absorption gear..

 

I don't MIND that Jaesa is hitting 100 damage higher than me. So what - that's her job..

[Noth]

Yes.. Im fighting 45 level strong at 42... thats what I said.. so given that if you're fighting at your own level then its really no contest...

 

Can solo 45 elites at 42 although doing so takes a while and needs careful management of agro so that Jaesa doesnt die, but to say the class is broken is simply rubbish..

 

The key for me?? At about 30 I got rid of my "might" gear, and my crit bonuses and replaced them all with guardian gear and shield, defence and absorption gear..

 

I don't MIND that Jaesa is hitting 100 damage higher than me. So what - that's her job..

 

That actually lends towards the class is broken since you have to be e specific spec with certain gear. If you can do that as rage or vengeance in dps gear, you'd have more of an argument that the class is fine. But you even admit you had to do something semi drastic to even make it so where you can level decently.

[Rhostadt]

I have to disagree, OP. I found my leveling experience to be the complete opposite. The 20s were tough for me, but once I actually went Immortal, and especially once I got Jaesa, things fell over dead. In my opinion, Strongs are way tougher than they should be (they have a much higher damage per second than Elites for example). However two of them are still always doable. If they're not, you need to check your level, check your spec, check your gear, and check your companion's gear. Keep in mind, quest rewards alone are *not* good enough to keep a companion's gear up to date past level 35 or so. If your complaint is about not being able to overcome the healing of two specific Strongs, then you had better not be using Quinn.

 

If you're properly specced Immortal and Jaesa/Vette are geared correctly, then you should be able to beat any solo quest encounter up to *at least* one level above you. Yes, that includes Elites and double Strongs. I've done it, repeatedly, so don't tell me it's impossible.

[omninull]

Yes.. Im fighting 45 level strong at 42... thats what I said.. so given that if you're fighting at your own level then its really no contest...

 

Can solo 45 elites at 42 although doing so takes a while and needs careful management of agro so that Jaesa doesnt die, but to say the class is broken is simply rubbish..

 

The key for me?? At about 30 I got rid of my "might" gear, and my crit bonuses and replaced them all with guardian gear and shield, defence and absorption gear..

 

I don't MIND that Jaesa is hitting 100 damage higher than me. So what - that's her job..

 

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, I don't think I could've come up with a better example.

[Rhelex]

I got my SW to 50 a few days ago and it was tough. I was always atleast equal level to my quests. if not one or two above, and still struggled. I dropped tank spec for solo'ing at level 30ish because tanks seemed both too popular in warzones as well as not very good in warzones, something I enjoy and have done a lot whilst leveling.

 

Having tried both Vengeance and Rage more than once from 30 to 50, Rage is by far the most difficult spec to solo with despite having some nice spike damage for PvP. Venge seems to have the better damage by a long way, whilst not really losing anything. I found that in both specs, despite being fully specced for them, I still did better in Soresu form than a DPS form - which is ridiculous. But yeah, 60% more armour(20-25% more damage reduction) and more shield chance always seems to be better than 9-12% extra damage and reduced rage costs/improved rage generation even when you're not in Immortal spec.

 

I found the best way was to have Malavai out, though it's slower than a DPS I could survive longer and then put more DPS out. A shame, because I wnated to use Jaesa, but Malavai always turned out to be the better choice. Groups I died on with her he made easy. Two Strongs always remained a problem, with even one and a couple of normals wrecking my health bar. Funny how I could PvP fine, and beat almost anything one vs one in any spec, but PvE is too difficult.

 

Regardless of your spec, I find it amazingly obvious Juggernaut needs tweaking. I've spoken to a few whilst leveling, and watched a lot of them die, so it's safe to say this problem is affecting a lot of people.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Rhelex

[omninull]

Oh wait, my bounty hunter friend does 721-908 every second for three seconds, while my mirror is pretty much around that damage OVER three seconds.

If you compare our trees with theirs, they virtually get every buff we have, and more. Or we drop 5% accuracy around us while theirs makes every mob around do 4% less damage to them. The pure damage reduction is much more reliable damage reduction that lowering their accuracy and makes it easier on healers. I honestly don't know why we're allowed to be so weak.

 

And this isn't a call for a nerf on bounty hunters and other classes (I talk about BH because they're the closest type to us.), but a needed buff to the Warrior. We should be able to consider fighting 2 strongs (especially for those that heal each other) a bit of a challenge, not a life or death situation. This is how it is for dps spec'd Juggernauts. Even 4 normals with a strong in a group can be a near fatal situation if something doesn't go right in the fight. I don't get that feeling while playing the Juggernaut, where I am a 'hero'. I also did the Lord Graahl (or whatever his name is) in one try, but I also had to wait 3 minutes in between every fight, so I could have my cooldowns up. It kills the mood of how we our portrayed in the dialogue and cutscene actions.

Edited January 15, 2012 by omninull

[mrbiggggy]

The class is not broken. I am using Jaesa for DPS. I am soloing in Voss at lvl 42 and having no issues at all as an Immortal Spec. Jaesa does stupid amounts of damage and all you need to do is stay alive long enough for her to kill things.

 

The supposed tough boss fight at the end of Belsaeris (sp?) I one shotted three levels below the recommended class level.

 

I am not trying to blow my own horn here. I'm an ordinary player. All I've done is spent some money on kitting myself and my companion out.

 

pretty much this

immortal with jaessa for quick killing

immortal with malavai to solo heroic quests

 

leveling as this class is pretty easy

[Noth]

pretty much this

immortal with jaessa for quick killing

immortal with malavai to solo heroic quests

 

leveling as this class is pretty easy

 

You've never played as any other class. All of them have been easier leveling with merc being by far the easiest to level. All of them can level pretty easily no matter spec. the fact that we consider immortal the only good leveling spec says the class is broken. I personally leveled to 50 as vengeance. And it was quite frankly hell.

[DropbearSW]

That actually lends towards the class is broken since you have to be e specific spec with certain gear. If you can do that as rage or vengeance in dps gear, you'd have more of an argument that the class is fine. But you even admit you had to do something semi drastic to even make it so where you can level decently.

 

What? I had to realize as an immortal spec i was not a DPS machine but I was specced for defense and so I kitted appropriately for the class.

 

If you want to be a DPS machine then chose an appropriate class and spec appropriately for that.

[Noth]

What? I had to realize as an immortal spec i was not a DPS machine but I was specced for defense and so I kitted appropriately for the class.

 

If you want to be a DPS machine then chose an appropriate class and spec appropriately for that.

 

You actually don't need to spec for defensive stats as immortal. Missed the point. You claimed the class was fine because of your success in one tree. I leveled in vengeance and had success with it, that however doesn't mean that that spec is fine. You have to take the entire class in and how it sets when compared to the leveling experience of other classes.

 

You can also level in dps gear while tank spec if you would actually get to equal level with your content. It actually makes it a lot easier since you don't give up that much mitigation.

[omninull]

At 48 just now, I just solo'd an elite 46 vorantikus horror as a vengeance spec. The only way I could beat it was to start out in shien form, quickly build rage, unload, switch to soresu form with a poorly geared out Quinn. I couldn't do it with my geared out Jaesa.

I had to blow all of my cooldowns, and a medpak to get through him though. I use all of my abilities, disrupt, build rage, knock backs, leaps, force chokes, etc, and I even switch back to shien form while I have saber ward active, so I can quickly dps him down. Once my shield disappears, I need to switch back to soresu form. Most of my gear is level 43 and from Red Reaper. Jaesa has a level 43 blue modable saber.

[RobCivicCRX]

I found immortal spec fine, the only trouble you will have is if you stop updating your and your companions gear.

 

I got all the way to 50 with no help on solo stuff and done alot of the heroic 2+ on my own.

 

Jugg Immortal is fine to level with if your having problems, your doing it wrong.

[omninull]

I found immortal spec fine, the only trouble you will have is if you stop updating your and your companions gear.

 

I got all the way to 50 with no help on solo stuff and done alot of the heroic 2+ on my own.

 

Jugg Immortal is fine to level with if your having problems, your doing it wrong.

 

Dude, again, you're basically proving my point. IF you level as Immortal spec, you'll be fine.

[RobCivicCRX]

Well ok then lol

[omninull]

Well ok then lol

 

It's alright man.

 

Alright, now I just tried one of the lvl 45 elite twisted crysfang packleader. I refused to use a medpack this time, but did blow my cooldowns, while switching to soresu form and not using quinn. I managed to kill it, but I still died because of the loss of health from endure pain while taking bleed damage.

[Wickedwood]

It's alright man.

 

Alright, now I just tried one of the lvl 45 elite twisted crysfang packleader. I refused to use a medpack this time, but did blow my cooldowns, while switching to soresu form and not using quinn. I managed to kill it, but I still died because of the loss of health from endure pain while taking bleed damage.

 

don't worry once you hit 50 and get raid gear you should be able to handle those pesky 45 silvers with no problem

[Noth]

It's alright man.

 

Alright, now I just tried one of the lvl 45 elite twisted crysfang packleader. I refused to use a medpack this time, but did blow my cooldowns, while switching to soresu form and not using quinn. I managed to kill it, but I still died because of the loss of health from endure pain while taking bleed damage.

 

I think endure pain has killed me more than saved me because of the exact thing that you describe. I've been really tempted to remove it from my bar

[omninull]

And if people are telling us to l2p, I'm the type of guy who, in a group of normal mobs with an elite, I target a weak guy, saber throw, force leap, and switch targets leaving him to vette. I then use force smash, to finish him off if needed, stun the weak, and allow myself to pommel strike my new target.

 

Usually by now he has one auto attack left of hp, so i auto him to build rage and switch to the final normal. If I notice I'm taking a lot of damage, I'll usually cast endure pain, if I'm above ~50% hp because I don't want to die in the middle of the fight when it goes off. If i'm below ~50% I use saber ward. I then finish off the final normal allowing me to either dump or build rage and the first two seconds of saber ward pass. After this, I'll either decide if I need to pop endure pain or not judging by how much damage I'm taking compared to how much damage he's taking by how much hp he has left.

 

 

If I need to buy some time, which I usually do (rage isn't really an issue at this point), I use force push, and throw and leap, and go back through my main damage cds. In dire situations, I use a medpack. In really tough, life or death situations in important fights, or after multiple attempt, I'll use my 20 min cd (forget its name) at around 25-30% remaining hp.

 

That's how I play my vengeance specc'd Juggernaut.

Edited January 15, 2012 by omninull

[Fafurian]

im lvl 40 and leveling as Immortal with Vette till 32 and Jaesa from now on..I have no issues what so ever with Hoth and even Quesh. In fact the only thing that can even drop me below half of my HP is the packs of 4-5 weak mobs cause they are so spread out..its a pain running around trying to get them all.

 

But strong-elite lvl mobs are easy as pie for me.

 

Here is what I do to take any elite im fighting to 40% hp before they barely do any damage to me:

 

Enrage - Force Leap (with crash) - 2s Stun

Force Scream (sonic barrier shield)

Crushing Blow

Backhand - 4s Stun

Sundering Assault + Ravage

Force Choke (talented) - 3s Stun and rage build

Sundering Assault + Vicious Slash

Force Push - 2s knockdown

Force Leap - 2s Stun

Force Scream

Crushing Blow

 

 

its about 13s of stun, plus a shield that will absorb the hits in between stuns if you arent timing them properly, and around 10k+ damage with Jaesa

 

Then I just pop Saber Ward and finish em off with 90%+ hp left. I literally have no fear of elites like I did on my 50 Sith Sorcerer. I've never had to use Call on the Force for anything yet besides the 60k+ hp elites I solo in Heroic 2s.