Desgarden Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) A sniper cannot be interrupted, the sage can be interrupted Oh dear, that's only half the truth. If they LoS you, or the fight simply shifts to another site...you sit entrenched there being useless, moving blows your entrench.You can also be cced when you move into position. Cover without entrench is often more of a drawback then a boon, simply because you get pushed out of it, then the laggy cover takes time to register, then you must start the cast again. I know it is hard to hear something negative about your shiny new toy (and the class also has its bright sides). However, if you compare it to other classes, you see that it is not on par for various reasons and no amount of foot stomping and crying "then roll the other class if you want to play with the other kids" changes that. Edited January 15, 2012 by Desgarden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandTrout Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) A sniper cannot be interrupted, the sage can be interrupted most interrupts stop 1 ability for 4 seconds on a 20 second cooldown. If you can't figure out 3 useful things to fill the GCD time with, you've got other issues. Honestly, interupting a sniper wouldn't do much to their damage output regardless because if you interrupt SoS, it's base cooldown is 9s anyways. if you interrupt snipe, the sniper can (and should) use explosive probe, shattering shot, corrosive dart, or frag grenade followed by either a SoS or Ambush. by the time the channel cast is over, snipe will be available again. And that's assuming that you can't just fill the gap with an ambush/follow-through combo. You don't seem to understand that Snipe is the only skill that we can really 'spam', but it's also among our lowest priorities to cast. Edited January 15, 2012 by SandTrout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 If they LoS you, or the fight simply shifts to another site...you sit entrenched there being useless, moving blows your entrench.You can also be cced when you move into position. I know it is hard to hear something negative about your shiny new toy (and the class also has its bright sides). However, if you compare it to other classes, you see that it is not on par for various reasons and no amount of foot stomping and crying "then roll the other class if you want to play with the other kids" changes that. In group based PvP, why on earth are you chasing? This is not 1v1. Stop ramboing. Learn your role and stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. This is not my shiny new toy more than it is yours. I am rank 45. I test it the class every warzone, and I get fewest deaths and most damage dealt almost every match I play, while playing an objective based game. The class is fine. You need to L2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crujido Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Wrong.Nothing is broken or wrong with them. Move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMar Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Sorcerers can have both, their energy regen is linear. When did they get energy? I say apple's are red and your comeback is oranges are orange? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiav Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) They can also be interrupted, and don't have an ability that makes them immune to cc for 20 seconds They're COMPLETELY different classes, they have different pros and cons Just reroll if you want to be just like Sorcs. Smuggler's energy system is awesome. Its terrible. Holy ****, i have a 30 yards interrupt with counts for ONE ability and isn't even a hard silence. Wowhooo. Awesome. Totally useless vs sorcerers. I am sorry. When did they get energy? I say apple's are red and your comeback is oranges are orange? Each class in this game has to manage its energy, they cannot "overnuke" to a certain extense or they face vast energy regen problems, sages/inquis is the only class who can fire and forgot about their energy since it regens at the same rate. Its another easy mode mechanic for an already easy mode class. Edited January 15, 2012 by Jiav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Its terrible. Holy ****, i have a 30 yards interrupt with counts for ONE ability and isn't even a hard silence. Wowhooo. Awesome. Totally useless vs sorcerers. I am sorry. If you're losing to sorcs, not having an interrupt in the form that you desire is the least of your problems. You need to L2P. Edited January 15, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khazlol Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) soooomeeetimesss when i try to get in cover nothing happens... then i run away and try agian and suddenly i roll 10 meters back behind the box i tried to take cover behind before feels pretty broken... Edited January 15, 2012 by Khazlol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiav Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 If you're losing to sorcs, not having an interrupt in the form that you desire is the least of your problems. You need to L2P. Hahahaha, nice argument. Not. Epic failure you are;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desgarden Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 In group based PvP, why on earth are you chasing? This is not 1v1. Stop ramboing. Learn your role and stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. This is not my shiny new toy more than it is yours. I am rank 45. I test it the class every warzone, and I get fewest deaths and most damage dealt almost every match I play, while playing an objective based game. The class is fine. You need to L2P. Why am I chasing?! Oh, so you sit entrenched at one place while your team and the enemy are fighting elsewhere...ok. I better hope for you that you only defend objectives and do not try to "support" your team in an offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMar Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Its terrible. Holy ****, i have a 30 yards interrupt with counts for ONE ability and isn't even a hard silence. Wowhooo. Awesome. Totally useless vs sorcerers. I am sorry. Each class in this game has to manage his energy, they canno't "overnuke" to a certain extense or they face vast energy regen problems, sages/inquis is the only class who can fire and forgot about their energy since it regens at the same rate. Its another easy mode mechanic for an already easy mode class. Yes, but do they have a force cost free range attack? I agree force cost are a little on the low side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Hahahaha, nice argument. Not. Epic failure you are;). You have an ability that lowers an enemy's accuracy by 45% for 9 seconds. What more do you want, an instant kill button? You have all the tools you need, you just need to play better I've never, EVER been out anything'ed in a warzone by a sorc or sage except in heals Edited January 15, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandTrout Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) repost from another thread, but the points are valid If they're dps they have 2 (OMG) heals. Both have a cast time. The faster one is never used because it's horribly inefficient (Benevolence), and the other is 2.5 sec activation (if talented). So OP. More than a sniper has. 1. We have 1 bubble. 2. "I think you have two bubbles, and I can't be bothered to learn anything about your class and that's why I can't beat you and cry on the forums". We have ONE 3k shield every 20 sec. That is our ONLY damage mitigation. Snipers get shield probe once every 45 seconds and it only last for 15 seconds and can be overloaded, though I'm not sure on the HP value. You can recast your bubble before the previous one fades, or replace it once it falls once. Force-Stun: Deals 637 - 988 kinetic damage and stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1k (OMG) 30m ranged hard stun. Snipers get a hard stun too, in melee range. Force-Slow: Deals 1011 - 1164 kinetic damage and slows the target's movement speed by 50% for 6 seconds. 1k damage OH NOES.Sniper get, wait... no, we don't. Deliverance (the only heal you'll see a dps sage using): 3 seconds (2.5 with talents), Heals a friendly target for 1208 - 1590 health. Force in Balance (our only "burst" spell): Deals 1198 - 1309 internal damage to up to 3 targets within 8 meters of the targeted area and heals you for 22 per affected target. Snipers can talent to have adrenaline probe (2min cooldown) heal 6% of our total Hp over 6 seconds (900 hp if you have 15k health) The stun and slow, as I showed, do 1k each. The stun is a 50 sec (if talented) CD, the slow is a 12 sec. (IE neither are spammable) Weaken Mind: Weakens the target's mind, dealing 5564 internal damage over 15 seconds. That's 370.93 dps. Oh noes. snipers get corrosive dart, which is 3315 damage over 15 second, or 221 DPS. Sever Force (our only other instant cast): Weakens the target, freezing it in place (IE a root) for 2 seconds and dealing 1457 internal damage over 18 seconds. 9 second CD. I'm not even going to bother calculating the dps of that. Snipers get Leg shot, which lasts 5 seconds, but breaks on damage and has a cooldown of 15 seconds, talented down to 12 seconds. Instant and channeled are contradictions, so I'm not even bothering with that. We're ranged casters. Your point? Yes. 1 stun on a minute cooldown. 1 mezz (force lift) on a minute cooldown. 1 slow on a 12 sec cooldown. 1 root on a 9 sec cooldown. The stun and the mezz are the only ones that affect the resolve bar (IE the slow/root aren't cc's in the traditional sense). None of them are spammable, and the ACTUAL cc's are on long cooldowns (a minute is a long time in pvp) Guess what, your abilities that even have an analogue with the dedicated ranged DPS class are all supperior. Add to that you have a bunch of abilities that snipers don't even have anything to compare to, and your damage type ignores defense and shield ratings. So do at least one spec of sentinels/maras and shadow/assasins. Again, what's your point? When you have a skill similar to a sniper's, it's better or comparable, with the one exception of flash-bang, and you have skills and abilities that snipers can't. I did better than deny them. I proved every one of them wrong. You're bad and you should feel bad. Do research or get rolled. That's how pvp in EVERY mmo works. Have a nice day Except that you ignored the class that you are most similar to when you are speced DPS. Edited January 15, 2012 by SandTrout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Why am I chasing?! Oh, so you sit entrenched at one place while your team and the enemy are fighting elsewhere...ok. I better hope for you that you only defend objectives and do not try to "support" your team in an offense Doing arenas against you must have been a treat Training you around pillars and you don't even think twice about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameTwine Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 A sniper cannot be interrupted, the sage can be interrupted Interrupts don't work in this game a healer can vastly Out heal any damage you try to put forth. If for some reason have a friend who is a sniper then yea you can win. At level 50 a healer needs 2-3 people on him interrupting his heals, if he's Biochem specced pls forget it and target someone else you'll go oom before he even has to heal. Sniper has maybe 2 interrupts one of which he needs to be close range to use, which by the way is not our thing since we are snipers. The one we do get is on a 12 second cooldown and only disables THAT ABILITY. Now i'm not to keen on how healers work but when I interrupt they are still spamming so yea... I love how you claim you play gunslinger but don't know the basic mechanics of how this game works.... hmm you sure your're level 50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiav Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Wait, so now we're counting other people? You keep going back and forth So then you have more damage than the sorc could possibly put out while at the same time having heals It's even easier in groups! Oh, and by the way, Diversion has a one minute cooldown. That's pretty short. Save it for when you're getting targetted by anyone that poses a serious threat that you can't peel quickly with kiting. Really, tell me more about it. Do you sell training lessons? How much per hour? If you're losing to sorcs, not having an interrupt in the form that you desire is the least of your problems. You need to L2P. Counting people.. hmm. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I love how you claim you play gunslinger but don't know the basic mechanics of how this game works.... hmm you sure your're level 50? Uhmm interrupt their spammable heal? Their heal arsenal isn't exactly jam packed with castables, lol... Sick ad hominem calling me a liar. I believe that means that I win, when you resort to tactics like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Really, tell me more about it. Do you sell training lessons? How much per hour? Your jest is a weak substitute for a meaningful argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandTrout Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Uhmm interrupt their spammable heal? Their heal arsenal isn't exactly jam packed with castables, lol... Sick ad hominem calling me a liar. I believe that means that I win, when you resort to tactics like that... They have multiple heals. by the time they've cycled through their alternative heals, their spammable is available again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameTwine Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Uhmm interrupt their spammable heal? Their heal arsenal isn't exactly jam packed with castables, lol... Sick ad hominem calling me a liar. I believe that means that I win, when you resort to tactics like that... Yes ill interrupt their spammable heal, got it. Thanks for teaching me how 2 playz ur R def best gunslinga roun know wut i sey menz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desgarden Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Doing arenas against you must have been a treat Training you around pillars and you don't even think twice about it Oh I see: the arena pro. It is always amusing to see how many top pvper WoW has or had. I mean everyone had top rating and all the others were nubs. However, it is amusing to see that you think that a sniper has not to reposition. Man, and you call others bad haha. Seriously, though, you cannot counter any arguments (you obviously have even not a clue how the mitigation works - which alone is enough leave marksman a bad spec fighting quite a few opponents. A problem BHs and sorcs simply do not have). All you do is stomp your feet because some people here actually speak bad about your shiny new toy. Now come on, tell us your awesome arena rating. I am sure I am not the only one who craves to know it!!11!"111 (especially in a pvp environment which is objective based opposed to a deathmatch mode) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiav Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Uhmm interrupt their spammable heal? Their heal arsenal isn't exactly jam packed with castables, lol... Sick ad hominem calling me a liar. I believe that means that I win, when you resort to tactics like that... He told you l2p, you tell ppl l2p. Vastly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imspecial Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Can we all please agree to treat the discussion here as if CupieFoxtail is not posting, every single post I have ever seen is just "your bad, I play sniper and I am awesome L2P". Or something with similar meaning. He/she is not the only one but please can we try to keep this a reasonable discussion with facts/evidence and not massive egos and offtopic/flaming discussion. Sandtrout thanks for the post it added some facts to the discussion, ill crost post something similar from our class forums. Some suggestions on how to fix the current weaknesses of the sniper class I don't think we need more damage just more utility, pvp is all about CC and survivibility. Some small QOL changes that I think would bring snipers more in line with mauraders(our other "pure" class would be these) - We need a ranged stun, every other ranged class has a ranged stun, we don't. - We need a healing debuff at least equal to the one that mauraders have, preferable with a long duration so that we are not made free kills by hybrids LOSing and healing up. - We need a slow that is decent, Force lightning applys a 50% slow on its target, our best slow is 30% and in both cases is only applied by a long cooldown(20+) dot. - Cover useable when snared, a snare is meant to be a movement control ability not a hard stun, which is what it is like when you are snared as a sniper. - Revamp cover. It should be a bonus when used, but not so critical to the class that without it we are as good as a stunned target when not in it(lethality less so). I made some other points in previous posts in this thread that could do with some discussion. I really wish the mods would take a more aggressive stance on forum bans to clean this place up, its approaching wow's forums in levels of trolling/blatant immaturity. Edited January 15, 2012 by Imspecial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Can we all please agree to treat the discussion here as if CupieFoxtail is not posting, every single post I have ever seen is just "your bad, I play sniper and I am awesome L2P". Or something with similar meaning. He/she is not the only one but please can we try to keep this a reasonable discussion with facts/evidence and not massive egos and offtopic/flaming discussion. Sandtrout thanks for the post it added some facts to the discussion, ill crost post something similar from our class forums. Some suggestions on how to fix the current weaknesses of the sniper class I don't think we need more damage just more utility, pvp is all about CC and survivibility. Some small QOL changes that I think would bring snipers more in line with mauraders(our other "pure" class would be these) - We need a ranged stun, every other ranged class has a ranged stun, we don't. - We need a healing debuff at least equal to the one that mauraders have, preferable with a long duration so that we are not made free kills by hybrids LOSing and healing up. - We need a slow that is decent, Force lightning applys a 50% slow on its target, our best slow is 30% and in both cases is only applied by a long cooldown(20+) dot. - Cover useable when snared, a snare is meant to be a movement control ability not a hard stun, which is what it is like when you are snared as a sniper. - Revamp cover. It should be a bonus when used, but not so critical to the class that without it we are as good as a stunned target when not in it(lethality less so). I made some other points in previous posts in this thread that could do with some discussion. I really wish the mods would take a more aggressive stance on forum bans to clean this place up, its approaching wow's forums in levels of trolling/blatant immaturity. The class does not need a buff. If it does get buffed, the people who already do well will reach god-mode status. At this point there will be cries for nerfs. I want NO part in this. For someone who accuses others of acting like they're on WoW forums, you should realize and try to prevent the yoyo nerfs of that game Oh I see: the arena pro I do not like small scale PvP. But there is one massive thing that any person could glean from a short amount of time spent in that kind of environment: do NOT get trained. If you get trained, you die. Do not get trained. Switch targets, pressure heals, but for the love of everything, do NOT get trained Edited January 15, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameTwine Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 No this class does need a buff. It is canon fodder in 2 specs, only 1 spec on both sides is viable and they don't need cover. The only reason people do good with the class is because of biochem which is getting nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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