Assassins suck

[kainsec]

You have no idea what you are talking about, sir.

Things are not nerfed in EVE. Slight adjustments are made to bring things on par with each other, i.e., hybrids in Crucible. Want to know why Minmatar ships are the "best" right now? Because since tech 3 cruisers were implemented, the way PVP was done has changed. Now it is about high mobility hard hitting ships, which is exactly what minmatar are. Previously, it was gallente that were the best, because they were able to chase targets down, tackle them, and melt them under huge DPS at point blank range. Between then and Crucible, hybrids never became bad, instead, people played their PVP in a different manner and hybrids became obsolete. They still did huge DPS, they still had the same stats, but people started to fly ships that were capable of avoiding the strengths of that playstyle.

I hope I've helped.

 

No minnie ships are best bc the auto cannon buff made them superior to lasers, missiles, and hybrids even after hybrid rebalancing. Added to that they are the fastest ships, unlike gallente don't rely on armor tanking which slows down the already slowest ships (yes put the shortest ranged weapons on teh slowest ship I am sure that will have no balance issues still haven't figured out who thought that was smart), their weapons don't use cap, they can effectively choose their damage type, and can effectively tackle lock a hybrid ship outside its effective range. Right now in Eve there is little reason not to fly minne vs anything else. However, this is moot bc Eve is nothing like swtor. EVE is infinitely more complex than SWtOR as are it's balancing issues.

Edited January 17, 2012 by kainsec

[kainsec]

^ except not,

all the other melee classes that you sought to be weak are not.

Yes there is skill involved in having to close the gap between you and your opponent and managing to maintain that throughout a fight but there is no reward involved with it... your opponent should not even be afraid of you force speeding to them or opening on them out of stealth like they would be with OPs, simply because Sins are weak.

 

You realize that your argument supports mine since I specifically said that their is no reward in being melee over range since melee has not one single advantage over it.

 

Also sins aren't weak. We do very good damage we just don't do it while the opponent is stun locked which allows ppl to fight back and the difference between our damage and a range classes isn't sufficient to warrant the extra effort of getting and staying into range. What makes Op/Sco borderline OP is a combo of buff stacking (which is getting a nerf) and their stunlock. Have you been hit by an op that doesn't buff stack or when they couldn't stunlock you due to resolve or your CC breaker? They are wimps that get decimated easily.

 

And yes all Melee classes are mediocre not just sins. No range class cares if any melee gets into range except ops/sco bc the mechanics of the game magnify the power of burst currently and Ops/Sco are the best melee bursters. What do Juggs/Guardian have other than smash o' doom which takes longer to build up than our attacks due to longer cds on the abilities that build up shockwave charges. Same with mara/sent all their trees a meh except rage and they don't have the survivability of their sister class.

Edited January 17, 2012 by kainsec

[DarthRaylast]

i cant see no big problem about my hits,i am only lvl 38 and i take abou 8-9 medals per wz...

 

my only problem is my light armor,and luck of survivability...

 

if as you say we are not rogues (rogue-type at least) why we wear light armor?

 

for example marauders and snipers(dps classes) wears MEDIUM!!!

 

jugger and powertech (tank classes) wear HEAVY!!!

 

why the hell we wear light even when we are supposed to be tanks?(and we are good tanks)

 

for the force sake let us wear medium plz!

 

other than that i have no problem at all with the class

Edited January 17, 2012 by DarthRaylast

[Nocorras]

i cant see no big problem about my hits,i am only lvl 38 and i take abou 8-9 medals per wz...

 

my only problem is my light armor,and luck of survivability...

 

if as you say we are not rogues (rogue-type at least) why we wear light armor?

 

for example marauders and snipers(dps classes) wears MEDIUM!!!

 

jugger and powertech (tank classes) wear HEAVY!!!

 

why the hell we wear light even when we are supposed to be tanks?(and we are good tanks)

 

for the force sake let us wear medium plz!

 

other than that i have no problem at all with the class

 

 

Rogues wore medium in wow. Tank stance gives you more armor and the tank tree gives you even more armor. Assassins t ank fine at 50. I tanked in 3 hardmode flashpoints in DPS spec, tank gear, and tank stance.

[Untalented]

What spec are you running now StrifedRevan?

 

I'm level 50 now with 4 pieces of champion gear. Solo queuing I've have quite a hard time as a deception build. I watch videos of people playing doing a ******** of burst DPS and I just don't see it happening unless I'm targeting a non-50 player.

 

I don't consider myself a bad player. I've got everything keybound and feel I make the right moves when I need to. However, I have a terrible time closing against equal level Sorc's, Ops, and hell most classes. Does gear really make such a huge difference? I don't know how the hell people are getting 300-400k dmg as an assassin.

 

TBH, I kind of feel bad with the class and have been considering to reroll, but I'm really trying my best to give it as much of a chance as I can.

 

Any tips appreciated.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Untalented

[Nocorras]

What spec are you running now StrifedRevan?

 

I'm level 50 now with 4 pieces of champion gear. Solo queuing I've have quite a hard time as a deception build. I watch videos of people playing doing a ******** of burst DPS and I just don't see it happening unless I'm targeting a non-50 player.

 

I don't consider myself a bad player. I've got everything keybound and feel I make the right moves when I need to. However, I have a terrible time closing against equal level Sorc's, Ops, and hell most classes. Does gear really make such a huge difference? I don't know how the hell people are getting 300-400k dmg as an assassin.

 

TBH, I kind of feel bad with the class and have been considering to reroll, but I'm really trying my best to give it as much of a chance as I can.

 

Any tips appreciated.

 

Gear makes a bit of difference 270-350k is the norm on my assassin unless my team is totally dominating and I can't stay on things for over 5 seconds. Gotta make sure you never waste EW procs, never shock w/o 2 VS stacks, all the little things add up.. idk I'm bad at explaining playstyles. I'll have footage of deception when 50 only brackets come.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Nocorras

[Shoraki]

Basically, our damage is too low in full deception/madness builds to make up for the poor survivability. Our best option is to go partial deception/madness hybrid and keep dark charge on or go full tank with dark charge.

[Nocorras]

Basically, our damage is too low in full deception/madness builds to make up for the poor survivability. Our best option is to go partial deception/madness hybrid and keep dark charge on or go full tank with dark charge.

 

Nope. 30+ kills every game with 0-3 deaths. Assassin surviability is low but you can live and do 300k+ damage as 10 dark ness 31 deception

[Untalented]

Nope. 30+ kills every game with 0-3 deaths. Assassin surviability is low but you can live and do 300k+ damage as 10 dark ness 31 deception

 

Are you constantly with premades and a healer? I solo queue a lot and I'm usually around 15-25 kills and 5-9 deaths in a full game that we're not being completely dominated. However, my DPS is far far from 200k+ in most warzones. I think I may have hit 200 once or twice, but that's definitely not the norm.

 

I also feel like I'm constantly targeted and just get eaten like nothing. What 10 points are you putting in darkness? I'm considering doing 31/0/10 just to increase my survive-ability. Been hearing some decent things about this spec and then going DPS gear.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Untalented

[FRISKI]

You realize that your argument supports mine since I specifically said that their is no reward in being melee over range since melee has not one single advantage over it.

 

Also sins aren't weak. We do very good damage we just don't do it while the opponent is stun locked which allows ppl to fight back and the difference between our damage and a range classes isn't sufficient to warrant the extra effort of getting and staying into range. What makes Op/Sco borderline OP is a combo of buff stacking (which is getting a nerf) and their stunlock. Have you been hit by an op that doesn't buff stack or when they couldn't stunlock you due to resolve or your CC breaker? They are wimps that get decimated easily.

 

And yes all Melee classes are mediocre not just sins. No range class cares if any melee gets into range except ops/sco bc the mechanics of the game magnify the power of burst currently and Ops/Sco are the best melee bursters. What do Juggs/Guardian have other than smash o' doom which takes longer to build up than our attacks due to longer cds on the abilities that build up shockwave charges. Same with mara/sent all their trees a meh except rage and they don't have the survivability of their sister class.

 

 

 

Alright I'll take your word for it, I'm expecting a nerf on this advantage that range classes are getting solely based on the fact that they are range especially sorcs...

[DarthRaylast]

Rogues wore medium in wow. Tank stance gives you more armor and the tank tree gives you even more armor. Assassins t ank fine at 50. I tanked in 3 hardmode flashpoints in DPS spec, tank gear, and tank stance.

 

my point was not in tanking...if you read carefully what i wrote i say clearly that our tank spec is really good

 

my point is in dps survivability

 

and plz for god shake STOP COMPARE WOW TO STAR WARS!!!!! THIS IS STAR WARS NOT WOW!!!! THIS I BIOWARE NOT BLIZZARD!!! THIS is the biggest mistake you all do

[StrifedRevan]

Are you constantly with premades and a healer? I solo queue a lot and I'm usually around 15-25 kills and 5-9 deaths in a full game that we're not being completely dominated. However, my DPS is far far from 200k+ in most warzones. I think I may have hit 200 once or twice, but that's definitely not the norm.

 

I also feel like I'm constantly targeted and just get eaten like nothing. What 10 points are you putting in darkness? I'm considering doing 31/0/10 just to increase my survive-ability. Been hearing some decent things about this spec and then going DPS gear.

 

I constantly que solo, and I pull around 350k in huttball - 450k in voidstar when I go hard, when theres not much action around 300k average. The key to bursting opponents down is having the right gear (power/crit , later on a balance of those 2 + surge) and biochem stims/buffs/relics, those are really the key to high damage output.

 

I like seeing high numbesr at the end of warzones, and I usually top the list, over bounty hunters/sorcs in my server, but the key for assassins getting high numbers is AOE damage, so I took the 0/31/10 build, but instead of specing into Volt Slash, I replaced that with deathfield, so my build is currently 0/30/11, so whenever I see a group of 2 or more enemies I deathfield them, and it sometimes crits for 2-3k a person, so I get a handful of damage from that.

 

Other than AOE, I do fairly well one on one with my new build, I would have extremely more burst if I spec'd into volt slash, but lowbies don't stand a chance against me anymore, I can 2-3 shot them and wipe out 3 lowbies if theyre trying to gank me, and 4-5 shot 50's with buffs, like I said, stims/relics are key to damage output for assassin's atm.

 

I'm currently trying to gear my battlemaster set up, but 0/2 , knowing my luck, I'm still missing 3 pieces of champ gear even at 60 valor.. once I get full bm gear however, I think I can start tipping the 500k damage scales.

 

EDIT: you'll also want to pick up rakata medpac if youre biochem, I dropped my 400 syntheweaving just to pick up biochem, and its been mroe than worth it. I know its getting nerfed next patch, but shouldn't be too bad, that medpac has saved my life so many times, what I do is when I'm fighting off a gank, I wait until I am near 35% , use medpac and deflection, if I get down to 35% again I force shroud, if I'm still in trouble I wait until force shroud wears off and force cloak (all while trying to kill targets) hope this helps

Edited January 17, 2012 by StrifedRevan

[StrifedRevan]

Btw I completely rip apart sorcs nowadays, the key to fighting them is using thrash/volt slash against their bubble until it pops, than you unload your main abilities against them, they'll go down easily, just make sure you don't waste your shock/discharge/mauls against their bubbles and it should be cake.

[NessusFett]

hahaha You really are going to find that the bounty hunter mercs are the most painful to play...

 

I was stoaked about it until i realized i'd be standing on the balcony all fight hoping no one decided to attack me...

 

almost no utilities. 1 pushback with huge cd. 4 sec stun and 8 sec stun with cast time.

 

trust me i've prolonged fights i shouldnt have been in... but you cant get away. even with your baby heals its just not possible unless you run through a group of your team.

[Nocorras]

Are you constantly with premades and a healer? I solo queue a lot and I'm usually around 15-25 kills and 5-9 deaths in a full game that we're not being completely dominated. However, my DPS is far far from 200k+ in most warzones. I think I may have hit 200 once or twice, but that's definitely not the norm.

 

I also feel like I'm constantly targeted and just get eaten like nothing. What 10 points are you putting in darkness? I'm considering doing 31/0/10 just to increase my survive-ability. Been hearing some decent things about this spec and then going DPS gear.

 

Nope. never run premades. Never hav ea pocket healer.

 

Build is exactly this - http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_inquisitor/assassin/#::f29efef5e3fe2fe5fe4fe3:

 

10v10 glitched voidstar for funsies - http://imgur.com/zBco3

 

Force speed, cloak, vanish are your best friends for living.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Nocorras

[Untalented]

I constantly que solo, and I pull around 350k in huttball - 450k in voidstar when I go hard, when theres not much action around 300k average. The key to bursting opponents down is having the right gear (power/crit , later on a balance of those 2 + surge) and biochem stims/buffs/relics, those are really the key to high damage output.

 

I like seeing high numbesr at the end of warzones, and I usually top the list, over bounty hunters/sorcs in my server, but the key for assassins getting high numbers is AOE damage, so I took the 0/31/10 build, but instead of specing into Volt Slash, I replaced that with deathfield, so my build is currently 0/30/11, so whenever I see a group of 2 or more enemies I deathfield them, and it sometimes crits for 2-3k a person, so I get a handful of damage from that.

 

Other than AOE, I do fairly well one on one with my new build, I would have extremely more burst if I spec'd into volt slash, but lowbies don't stand a chance against me anymore, I can 2-3 shot them and wipe out 3 lowbies if theyre trying to gank me, and 4-5 shot 50's with buffs, like I said, stims/relics are key to damage output for assassin's atm.

 

I'm currently trying to gear my battlemaster set up, but 0/2 , knowing my luck, I'm still missing 3 pieces of champ gear even at 60 valor.. once I get full bm gear however, I think I can start tipping the 500k damage scales.

 

EDIT: you'll also want to pick up rakata medpac if youre biochem, I dropped my 400 syntheweaving just to pick up biochem, and its been mroe than worth it. I know its getting nerfed next patch, but shouldn't be too bad, that medpac has saved my life so many times, what I do is when I'm fighting off a gank, I wait until I am near 35% , use medpac and deflection, if I get down to 35% again I force shroud, if I'm still in trouble I wait until force shroud wears off and force cloak (all while trying to kill targets) hope this helps

 

What buffs do you typically stack from biochem? Willpower and then pop crit?

[kidbs]

I'm going to be blunt about you guys that are claiming 400k damage done in warfronts. If you are doing that much damage in say Huttball then you are either on a premade and are farming people, or you are completely ignoring all objectives and are focusing only on killing people.

 

If you are actually assisting in running the ball (getting into position, assisting with CCs, passing, etc..) then you simply don't have enough time to be pulling that much damage as an assassin.

 

If you are actually playing for the objectives then I think it's much more common to be in the low to mid 200ks as an assassin.

[GruulTapul]

I'm going to be blunt about you guys that are claiming 400k damage done in warfronts. If you are doing that much damage in say Huttball then you are either on a premade and are farming people, or you are completely ignoring all objectives and are focusing only on killing people.

 

If you are actually assisting in running the ball (getting into position, assisting with CCs, passing, etc..) then you simply don't have enough time to be pulling that much damage as an assassin.

 

If you are actually playing for the objectives then I think it's much more common to be in the low to mid 200ks as an assassin.

 

I absolutely agree. My highest damage numbers were against Premades where all the damage I dealt was actually counter healed and we lost horribly. People focus so much on Damage (just like Raids/Operations)that they completely forget that having high total damage is not always a good thing and does not win you games. Specifically as an Assassin you ideally should aim for low total damage, since you typically want your targets dead after your initial burst, wihtout counter healing. If mean if your dps characters cannot kill your targets in a reasonable amount of time, no amount of damage over time is going to save you. Sure, it bloats your damage numbers at the end of your match which makes most people think you did a good job, but most of the time, you simply want the other Player characters dead, preferably without spending too much damage on any target (since this costs force and time, which makes it possible to counter heal).

 

One of the most important characteristics is how well a character can interrupt a healer and pressure the dps characters, since this is a very direct way of lowering damage output, but since it does not show in total numbers, people tend to focus on other arbitrary things like total damage. You can draw many conclusions from high total damage dealt, but not all of them are positive. Most people will probably never understand.

Edited January 17, 2012 by GruulTapul

[kainsec]

What buffs do you typically stack from biochem? Willpower and then pop crit?

 

I stack willpower+power stim, plus surge adrenal, and crit+surge relic

[RadehX]

No minnie ships are best bc the auto cannon buff made them superior to lasers, missiles, and hybrids even after hybrid rebalancing. Added to that they are the fastest ships, unlike gallente don't rely on armor tanking which slows down the already slowest ships (yes put the shortest ranged weapons on teh slowest ship I am sure that will have no balance issues still haven't figured out who thought that was smart), their weapons don't use cap, they can effectively choose their damage type, and can effectively tackle lock a hybrid ship outside its effective range. Right now in Eve there is little reason not to fly minne vs anything else. However, this is moot bc Eve is nothing like swtor. EVE is infinitely more complex than SWtOR as are it's balancing issues.

 

Agreed. Also, the pool of players in EVE increased so much, solo-PVP is getting harder every year (playing since the launch). That means ships that allow you to run (aka Minmatar) are VERY cool if you're on your own.

 

People are always soooooo worried about stats...when in reality, they could just adapt 99% of the time and make up for any shortcomings. A game is almost never 100% balanced (chess maybe...), so getting mad about it just drives you nuts and kills the fun. I'm a complete noob at SWTOR (or any similar MMO, never played WOW), and even though a lot of people seem to say Assassins suck, I still picked it. Why? Because I enjoy playing that class, and it fits my playstyle.

 

Can be a lot of fun to play an "underdog" class. My main ship in EVE were bombers, small cloaked DPS machines with a paper tank...also not the "strongest" class out there, but tons of fun because it forces you to apply strategy instead of just smashing the missile spam buttons

[Bulwyf]

I think one of the biggest problems in the pve area some are experiencing is that we receive our healing companion FAR too late. Talos doesn't show up until around level 40 IIRC. So for almost your entire life you either have zero heals or you have to group with someone else to get heals.

 

Bioware IMO should have made every class pick up a healing companion and a tanking companion as their first two companions in that order. There's a reason some of you are watching BH's running around owning face in pve. They already have their healer. They start with their healer as their first companion. I know on my BH it was like night and day leveling with Mako versus on my sin not having a healer until late game.

[Hypernetic]

I think one of the biggest problems in the pve area some are experiencing is that we receive our healing companion FAR too late. Talos doesn't show up until around level 40 IIRC. So for almost your entire life you either have zero heals or you have to group with someone else to get heals.

 

Bioware IMO should have made every class pick up a healing companion and a tanking companion as their first two companions in that order. There's a reason some of you are watching BH's running around owning face in pve. They already have their healer. They start with their healer as their first companion. I know on my BH it was like night and day leveling with Mako versus on my sin not having a healer until late game.

 

It's also because they can AoE down every pack they pull in 1 second...

[Untalented]

I think one of the biggest problems in the pve area some are experiencing is that we receive our healing companion FAR too late. Talos doesn't show up until around level 40 IIRC. So for almost your entire life you either have zero heals or you have to group with someone else to get heals.

 

Bioware IMO should have made every class pick up a healing companion and a tanking companion as their first two companions in that order. There's a reason some of you are watching BH's running around owning face in pve. They already have their healer. They start with their healer as their first companion. I know on my BH it was like night and day leveling with Mako versus on my sin not having a healer until late game.

 

I don't think anyone's complaint here was PVE, was it? I had no issues as a Deception build with Khem tanking doing any of the content to 50. I think other classes may have an easier time, but in any game some classes solo better than others.

 

In any case the primary subject has been the shortcomings with Assassin PvP. A amazing Assassin to me must utilize every skill/trick in the book to win against a mediocre Operative, Jugg, [insert class name here]. Most of the people here with no issues seem to be people with full PvP gear, and are popping every possible buff they can to succeed.

 

This is just what makes me a little sad, as I do like the class, but feel they are lacking a bit.

[Aedilous]

I think the problem is that Assassin is supposed to be a creative tank, but everyone is trying to play it like a rogue. If you want the 'rogue' class, you have to play IA. Assassin is a tank.

 

I was playing my sin as a rogue character and Deception spec because I figure that if you can specialize in stealthy, strong hit, glass cannon type combat I'd be fine. We do have a heal but it only works with our companion out so no PvP heals other than Dark Charge (offers a hp leech when using but it's minimal returns).

 

Recently I changed to Darkness spec and play more of an agile tank build, utlizing my stealth to get in and deal some damage then use my Force Cloak to get the hell out. Dark Charge increasing armor rating helps quite a bit. Currently my armor rating is just over 4k at level 37. My buddy's level 40 Sniper is at 23k armor. Having Force Pull helps a lot in Huttball if used correctly and I have a decent number of AoE abilities which help to keep enemies from capping points or just generally deals a decent amount of damage.

 

All that though doesn't mean a whole lot in the face of how much damage I actually deal. Assassinate is my most powerful attack and I think my max damage on a crit was just around 2k. Maul is pretty much useless because it costs so much energy and deals so little damage. It doesn't even have a damage boost on it's first attack out of stealth, which you would expect from a backstab. For a melee DPS class the assassin certainly does lack in the DPS department, but that doesn't mean that the assassin sucks as a class. It's seemed more often recently in PvP the role of the assassin is to just be a general nuisance. I can slow, pull, stun, knockback, and stealth in addition to doing decent damage.

[punman]

Nope. never run premades. Never hav ea pocket healer.

 

Build is exactly this - http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_inquisitor/assassin/#::f29efef5e3fe2fe5fe4fe3:

 

10v10 glitched voidstar for funsies - http://imgur.com/zBco3

 

Force speed, cloak, vanish are your best friends for living.

 

Curious how your math for Electric Execution, which is generally regarded as a complete waste of any points, and as far as I know is only taken 1/3 by 31 Dark builds because you need a filler point, brings it ahead of Exploitive Strikes?