Dunzo Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) @ MajikMyst Honestly, comparing this to WoW is something else discussed to death. It's not the same, it's comparing Apples to Oranges, so please enough with comparing to WoW. P.S. Bioware changed the link, I know because look at the size of this thread and tell me I haven't linked it a bunch of times. Edited February 5, 2012 by Dunzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Show me the Sentinel and Guardian stories then. Show me different companions, different ANYTHING other then playstyle. Go on, please. Show me the uniqueness of each class to make them stand so completely different that it would be inconceivable to change from one to the other. If they were unique, separate classes, they wouldn't share common abilities with each other (Knight Abilities) and have the exact same results in terms of story. In fact, they literally have ZERO impact on anything in the game except your role in a dungeon. Agreed, there is insignificant difference between the two ACs that I've seen, outside of a couple being able to take a tank/healer spec instead of the other two DPS specs. Zero difference in storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Show me the Sentinel and Guardian stories then. Show me different companions, different ANYTHING other then playstyle. Go on, please. Show me the uniqueness of each class to make them stand so completely different that it would be inconceivable to change from one to the other. If they were unique, separate classes, they wouldn't share common abilities with each other (Knight Abilities) and have the exact same results in terms of story. In fact, they literally have ZERO impact on anything in the game except your role in a dungeon. Three different talent trees. Even the "shared" tree is different based on the class you pick. The Sith Assassin has 30 unique abilities (counting proficiencies and talent abilities). The Sith Sorceror has 21 unique abilities. They share 20 abilties. That is less than 30% shared skills between the two classes.Different playstyles. In some cases, dramatically different. In the example above you swap from a stealth melee to a ranged caster. That's a huge change regardless of role. By all accounts these are two different CLASSES regardless of what Bioware chooses to call them. Agreed, there is insignificant difference between the two ACs that I've seen, outside of a couple being able to take a tank/healer spec instead of the other two DPS specs. Zero difference in storyline. If you think a different storyline is the basis for the classes being the same, then, by your logic why are all classes not the same since all classes in one faction share 80% of the same story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 @ MajikMyst Honestly, comparing this to WoW is something else discussed to death. It's not the same, it's comparing Apples to Oranges, so please enough with comparing to WoW. P.S. Bioware changed the link, I know because look at the size of this thread and tell me I haven't linked it a bunch of times. Actually it is a valid comparison.. People want to say the AC's are the same so they are not classes.. Yet can't argue with the fact that mages and warlocks are the same but are seperate classes.. If people are going to make bogus claims about this game then they need to apply that logic to other games.. No matter what the class in WOW many of the quests were the same for every player.. Both horde and Alliance players share some of the same quests.. So to make the claim that they are not seperate classes because they share quests is simply wrong.. Can anyone name an MMO where all the different classes didn't share a single quest while leveling?? There isn't one.. So the point is meaningless.. People need to understand that their attempts to deny AC's their class status needs to also be applied to other games of simular player mechanics.. This game in basic mechanics is very simular to WOW.. So WOW applies.. To deny that is to simply admit that you don't want to address the fundamental issues.. Just because two classes are very simular is not cause for them to not be seperate classess.. Just because they share many of the same quests is not cause for them not to be seperate classes.. You can't have an arguement only apply here because you want AC switching to be allowed.. If your arguement is going to hold this game to different standards than other games.. Then you simply have no arguement.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphix Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I greatly oppose this idea... but after deep thought I've came to the conclusion, Bioware should allow this and charge $20 (for service fees) to do it. It would satisfy one of my major arguments against it by limiting it's usage. The advance class would retain it's dignity and not be reduced down to 'some spec'. I enjoy the game Bioware, go ahead and get you some - everyone else is doing it. Use the money to improve the game and give us even more. Again I say to allow it for a $20 charge. WoW uses opportunities to make money and so should Bioware. More revenue = more content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Again I say to allow it for a $20 charge. WoW uses opportunities to make money and so should Bioware. More revenue = more content. WoW drew the line, as many do, by not allowing class changes for fees. Its fine to change non-game effective things like aesthetics or faction but changing your class is very dramatic to the player. If you're going to use the WoW model, then you need to realize that more revenue =/= more content. In fact, since releasing paid services, WoW has begun releasing LESS content. They launched Cataclysm with three raids featuring 13 bosses total. The subsequent patch was released with only one raid featuring 7 bosses. The raid after that had 8. On top of this, they went from a four raid cycle in Wrath (Naxx Tier > Ulduar > Crusader > Icecrown) to a three raid cycle in Cat (Bastion/Descent Tier > Firelands > Dragon Soul). WoW is producing less content over the same time frame with more income than ever. More revenue = more profit, not more content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentone Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Honestly , could care less what the opposition to this has to say. AC switching should be added soon . Played the beta as a gunslinger, when it went live figured I would try scoundrel out. Hated it and having to start back over just to get back to level 10 to choose gunslinger. Instead of going on further. I figure that I would just let karma deal with it . Enjoy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Honestly , could care less what the opposition to this has to say. AC switching should be added soon . Played the beta as a gunslinger, when it went live figured I would try scoundrel out. Hated it and having to start back over just to get back to level 10 to choose gunslinger. Instead of going on further. I figure that I would just let karma deal with it . Enjoy ! No, it shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaRockStar Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No advanced class change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraygh Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Once you choose your advanced class, forever will it dominate your destiny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentone Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Don't care we need ac change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Don't care we need ac change. "We" don't need it. You want it. Not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX_Theo Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Don't care we need ac change. No need for any sort of AC change system. What there is a need for is a more thorough ability to preview each AC. Like a video showing it in battles throughout the course of leveling (like armor progression videos). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Don't care we need ac change. Seriously?! You are starting to sound like a broken record honestly, but i am beginning to believe that you really don't care and are just having a good laugh in this thread. If i am wrong and you do care about this matter, could you enlighten us by giving your reasons, any reason would suffice really except the good old:"I realized i hate my AC after certain amount of levels gained and am too lazy to re roll, therefore Bioware needs to make my life easy or i will quit". The majority of us in this thread who are against AC switch have all gave valid arguments as to why it is we feel that way, on the other hand those few who are advocating for AC change haven't really offered a single good reason why it should be made possible ( because there really isn't one so good to begin with), it basically comes down to immature replies such as:"Don't care, me wants, i need, give NAO". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX_Theo Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Seriously?! You are starting to sound like a broken record honestly, but i am beginning to believe that you really don't care and are just having a good laugh in this thread. If i am wrong and you do care about this matter, could you enlighten us by giving your reasons, any reason would suffice really except the good old:"I realized i hate my AC after certain amount of levels gained and am too lazy to re roll, therefore Bioware needs to make my life easy or i will quit". The majority of us in this thread who are against AC switch have all gave valid arguments as to why it is we feel that way, on the other hand those few who are advocating for AC change haven't really offered a single good reason why it should be made possible ( because there really isn't one so good to begin with), it basically comes down to immature replies such as:"Don't care, me wants, i need, give NAO". AC respec hurts replayability factor. Now I know some people have the issue with playing a whole new character to play the other spec, but I look forward to replaying some of these classes. Having a different feel to gameplay would make replayability much greater when it comes to this. I'd also like to point out Bioware is likely to agree with me, because the game's design is largely based on leveling up new characters. The only real issue is when people come to regret the plays tyle of the AC they choose. All that is required to fix this is a more thorough preview, like a video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunzo Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) AC respec hurts replayability factor. Now I know some people have the issue with playing a whole new character to play the other spec, but I look forward to replaying some of these classes. Having a different feel to gameplay would make replayability much greater when it comes to this. I'd also like to point out Bioware is likely to agree with me, because the game's design is largely based on leveling up new characters. How is giving people the choice affecting the replay value for you? or anyone? If people want to replay, cool, it shouldn't be because they are forced to because they don't like their AC and pick all the same light side/dark side choices. Here's the thing: It doesn't affect you in any way, if you wanna play the same class or AC twice or eight times, then do that, a respec option wouldn't prevent you from doing that. Edited February 6, 2012 by Dunzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunzo Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Three different talent trees. Even the "shared" tree is different based on the class you pick. The Sith Assassin has 30 unique abilities (counting proficiencies and talent abilities). The Sith Sorceror has 21 unique abilities. They share 20 abilties. That is less than 30% shared skills between the two classes.Different playstyles. In some cases, dramatically different. In the example above you swap from a stealth melee to a ranged caster. That's a huge change regardless of role. So you just quoted me saying "...anything other then playstyles" and all three points you made are directly related to playstyle, especially point 3 -.- Try again, thanks. Edited February 6, 2012 by Dunzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentone Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Seriously?! You are starting to sound like a broken record honestly, but i am beginning to believe that you really don't care and are just having a good laugh in this thread. If i am wrong and you do care about this matter, could you enlighten us by giving your reasons, any reason would suffice really except the good old:"I realized i hate my AC after certain amount of levels gained and am too lazy to re roll, therefore Bioware needs to make my life easy or i will quit". The majority of us in this thread who are against AC switch have all gave valid arguments as to why it is we feel that way, on the other hand those few who are advocating for AC change haven't really offered a single good reason why it should be made possible ( because there really isn't one so good to begin with), it basically comes down to immature replies such as:"Don't care, me wants, i need, give NAO". I do care about this being added into the game. I would give reasons but as always you'll get those that will try to keep things going by looking for a better response to what one says. So , I decided to keep it simple and just reply that Yes! We do need ac respec but with an elevating cost for each respec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 BW please just put AC choice at character creation! It would stop all this confusion these people have about it. Make it so when you go to make a character it goes like this. Pick faction Pick base class Pick advance class Pick race Pick sex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 So you just quoted me saying "...anything other then playstyles" and all three points you made are directly related to playstyle, especially point 3 -.- Try again, thanks. So the single MAJOR component against it is the one thing you ignore? Playstyle is more than enough of a reason not to allow it. Reasons like reducing replayability and reducing the quality of the RP in RPG are just gravy on top of the glaring playstyle issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 BW please just put AC choice at character creation! It would stop all this confusion these people have about it. Make it so when you go to make a character it goes like this. Pick faction Pick base class Pick advance class Pick race Pick sex This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocentone Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 We needz ac change option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvarr Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 baddies will be bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunzo Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 So the single MAJOR component against it is the one thing you ignore? Playstyle is more than enough of a reason not to allow it. Reasons like reducing replayability and reducing the quality of the RP in RPG are just gravy on top of the glaring playstyle issues. No, playstyle is not a reason because it does not define the AC's as "separate classes" as they share abilities, have the exact same stories and have no effect on the surrounding game whatsoever. It's exactly the same as saying you can't respec from Sage heals to Sage dps. And what, so because RP'ers will have a "reduced quality", which I still don't understand how since they can choose -not- to respec, then the rest of us should suffer? Do you realize how few people actually RP? These arguments make no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) We needz ac change option. Agreed. No one has to justify their want for something simply because YOU want them to give you a reason you'll find valid. Their wanting it is reason enough. I find it hilarious that the Anti-AC respec crowd feels they deserve some sort of explanation, when they feel the Pro-AC respec crowd doesn't deserve the option to switch. Until there is some sort of official Developer's stance on the subject, I reserve the right to continue bumpin' this thread, regardless of all of what others think. Edited February 6, 2012 by MalignX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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