Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Jurisnoctis]

You have 8 character slots.

 

8 advanced classes exist in the game (and their mirrors).

 

No need for "respec" of advance classes needed.

 

I don't go ask Blizzard to allow me to respec my Rogue into a Druid, so don't ask for this either.

[aznthecapn]

You are saying you think it will cause class imbalances and you think it will break mechanical integrity with no facts or real reasons to back it up.

 

I and others have offered many reasons, you're ignoring them. You aren't attempting to rebuke our points at all. You just say "it won't hurt anything", "how does it hurt you", etc. Scroll back a few pages, find a long post with many reasons, cut and paste your responses invalidating those reasons. Otherwise you aren't making ANY points at all.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Arzhanin
Rude comments

[Sabarok]

The amount of effort some posters are going in trying to defend their position by focusing on the literal definition of words has me thinking these are people who grew up in a zero-tolerance environment, where the literal interpretation of the written word is the only valid one. You are going to lose based on word definitions because Bioware wrote the words, and if the words mean different than they intended, they don't change rewrite the game to fit your narrow interpretation. They just change the words. It's the most absurd position to take to try and get BW to make changes to SWTOR.

 

What other MMOs have for "respecs" is already in here, and it's called the Skill Reset. That's where you can change your specialization. Advance Classes in SWTOR are called Classes in other MMOs. A few of those MMOs do allow for changing your class, but they're designed around it (like FF XI). SWTOR is not one of those.

 

The difference between the talent trees is not only minor, but the player has full customization over how the different trees are utilized. There are thousands of different ways the skill tree can be customized. No matter which of the three trees you specialize in, you are still capable of fulfilling any of those roles. They don't unlock roles, they enhance them. A DPS Spec Sorceror can still heal. A DPS Spec Assassin can't.

 

The difference between the ACs is drastic. The player does not have any customization beyond which AC they choose. There are only ever 2 choices. The player had more options at character creation when choosing the base class. The roles available are unlocked at this choice.

 

The commonality of the class quest is trivial. All faction ACs share the planetary quests, flashpoints, and dailies which are the largest portions of the game. No matter what AC you choose, you're going to be repeating 80% of the quests. Having to do another 20% over isn't enough reason to get you your class changed.

[NecrologyX]

And therein lies the rub. It would dramatically change basic skill mechanics for Inquisitors, Consulars, Imperial Agents and Smugglers. Half your classes. Should we allow you to switch as a Bounty Hunter and not them?

 

 

 

If you don't want to experience the grind, level the AC if your choice on the opposing faction.

 

Problem solved.

 

You can argue that its different skill mechanics but so is a sage healer to a sage dps.

 

I can buy the fact that if the story was different then I'd support lack of AC respec. There is no new story. A shadow is IDENTICAL to a sage.

 

I LOL at people in WoW who level 5 druids (or w/e) I dont wanna do it in this game either

[aznthecapn]

You can argue that its different skill mechanics but so is a sage healer to a sage dps.

 

No, you can't. Sage to Shadow is the difference between a ranged caster and a stealth melee. That's two very different components. Its the difference between a priest and a warrior in WoW (minus the stealth, which only serves to further reinforce the point).

 

 

 

I can buy the fact that if the story was different then I'd support lack of AC respec. There is no new story. A shadow is IDENTICAL to a sage.

 

As the guy above you said, 80% of the story driven content is IDENTICAL regardless of class choice. By your reasoning, we shouldn't be forced to level through everything again because we want a Juggernaut instead of a Bounty Hunter. But then you'll say "but those ARE totally different classes, it shouldn't be allowed!" You can't pick and choose what side of things you're going to sit on.

[Sai-to]

Now I do see reasons for limiting flexibility from a Dev standpoint. (Less flexibility = more time spent to experience the full game) But, we aren't devs and allowing a healer to respec to a tank role so that my guild can Raid more often just isn't bad. It's better for everyone. If you don't want it, don't use it, but I wouldn't mind the addition. It would be a very welcome addition for all but the most hardcore players IMO.

 

 

Sure. If you have to spend the time leveling up your Tank class.

 

If your idea was implemented like FFXI, then there would be no problem. If you wanna use one character, but be able to play all classes, then you have to level those classes.

 

It's ridiculous to ask to be able to change from a level 50 Mage to a level 50 Warrior.

[lucasomega]

I LOL at people in WoW who level 5 druids (or w/e) I dont wanna do it in this game either

 

Never heard of anyone doing that. Friend of yours?

 

No one's forcing you to roll the same class if you want more role options either. Have a powertech but want to heal? Roll a sorcerer or operative. Live a little.

[Snowred]

NO

 

Oh and NO don't even think about it

 

It's like asking to repec your priest to a warrior or your rogue to a mage stupid idea IMO and no game would ever do it..... if BW ever give in to this they'll be kissing their game concept goodbye......

 

Make a choice and live with it... Advanced classes are separate - how hard is that to grasp?

[Vlacke]

It's ridiculous to ask to be able to change from a level 50 Mage to a level 50 Warrior.

 

This.

[Vlacke]

NO

 

Oh and NO don't even think about it

 

It's like asking to repec your priest to a warrior or your rogue to a mage stupid idea IMO and no game would ever do it..... if BW ever give in to this they'll be kissing their game concept goodbye......

 

Make a choice and live with it... Advanced classes are separate - how hard is that to grasp?

 

Obviously too hard for some.

 

I'm sure that Bioware will not allow AC change, there is absolutely no reason to do so.

[BluelabelD]

Obviously too hard for some.

 

I'm sure that Bioware will not allow AC change, there is absolutely no reason to do so.

 

I think BioWare is a company that want to make money.

 

BioWare does watch to what some of the player bases wants or demands, and yes they do make changes.

 

Example would be the guild bank they are putting in the game now, why? cause so many people and guild's complained about it, so they put it in the gamne, this up comming patch.

 

Just cause Advanced class respec is not in the game right now, means not much, could very be intended to be in the next patch after.

[Sabarok]

How did we get to the argument that if WoW has a class that can fill all the roles in a team that means SWTOR is supposed to have a class reset? Just because WoW has a do-all class doesn't mean SWTOR has to have one, and it certainly doesn't mean that we must have a class reset in order to copy WoW's 1-class-does-all. So WoW has a few classes that can fill all 3 roles. SWTOR has none that fill all 3 roles, but every class is able to fill any 2 roles at will.

 

A DPS Sorc can fill in as a healer without needing to respec. They aren't at 100%, but they do have the skills available to throw heals & absorbs. A Sorceror can't tank, stealth, wear medium armour, or use a double-bladed lightsaver. Ever. Tanking belongs to the Juggernaut, Powertech, and Assassin. Agent/Smuggler have no options for tanking in either of their ACs and Sith Warriors have no options for healing in either of their ACs. It is clearly not Bioware's intent to make all 3 roles available on a single character.

[Navakai]

Heellll noo.

 

It would be like allowing a warlock to switch to a mage in wow. It would also halve the SWTOR class system.

 

 

bad idea is bad.

 

If you're not happy with your class reroll. Even if it is to the other AC. I've done it.

[lucasomega]

I have both a powertech and mercenary. Powertech is my main for sure because I love tanking. I rolled a mercenary right along side because I never expect my powertech to heal... EVER.

 

Talent respec is one thing, changing classes is another thing entirely. And yes I do believe "AC respec" is changing classes. I've played both bounty hunter classes (call them ACs if you want) and they're significantly different. The content is the same, but it will be almost entirely the same regardless of what second class you roll. The skills/talents are vastly different.

 

I can't wait to see all the "W T F!? My jugg/mara can't heal? All other class do!" threads IF this class switching is allowed.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[DexterKid]

When they have made enough money from people re-rolling characters and restarting from scratch, they will allow us Advance Class respecs.

 

Well said, that's the only reason to not have it in from Bioware's point of view. By the end of the year, this feature will be added. Mark my words.

 

Personally I completely agree with the idea of allowing AC respec. It will not hurt the game in any significant way, and will give people more options and flexibility in how they play the game; it will be especially nice for those of us who regret our AC choice.

[Sabarok]

I think BioWare is a company that want to make money

 

This is why there won't ever be an AC reset. It's the same reason other MMOs don't allow you to change your class. It lowers the value of the class and reduces the replay value of the game. It renders the entire AC system meaningless. Anything that discourages players from making new characters is bad for business. Bioware wants you to make more characters, not less. Very few players will leave if they never implement this, but implementing it will cost them subscriptions. The dev work involved would also be costly. As you say, they are here to make money so they aren't going to pay the salary of developers to add a feature that will lose them money. AC Reset makes as much sense to Bioware's financial bottom line as a base class reset.

 

Their most common response to the "too long wait" for the server queue issue at launch? "Roll a new character on another server". They're response to "I'm bored of being a Powertech" is also going to be "roll a new character".

[BluelabelD]

Look man, you posted your wall of text back there with your reasons (actually you didn't post any reasons) for wanting AC respec. You absolutely love your powertech but you want the mercs abilities too is all I got from that post. Now you're just flaming everybody who counters what you said. Move on because no one is going to "win" that debate.

 

I have both a powertech and mercenary. Powertech is my main for sure because I love tanking. I rolled a mercenary right along side because I never expect my powertech to heal... EVER.

 

Talent respec is one thing, changing classes is another thing entirely. And yes I do believe "AC respec" is changing classes. I've played both bounty hunter classes (call them ACs if you want) and they're significantly different. The content is the same, but it will be almost entirely the same regardless of what second class you roll. The skills/talents are vastly different.

 

I can't wait to see all the "W T F!? My jugg/mara can't heal? All other class do!" threads IF this class switching is allowed.

 

I just want the ability down the road, if needed to to chnage my advanced class spec, do i think it should be able to be done on a whim no, i don't. I think it should be one of the hardest things one could do on this game, for the people whom are serious. which would be for allmost no one.

 

It seems most people here don't like the idea of a main toon, that one plays for their entire mmo title, i think allmost every mmo had people who stuck with 1 toon, that they loved, and never let go.

 

I disagree that the advanced class specs are so different that they are like a sith war compared to bounty hunter, i that thats wrong, over the top sir.

 

I think the idea of majority of the population using advanced class respecing is a fantasy

 

BioWare even stated, that they would make it very very very hard to advance respec. What is wrong, with a minority of players, workong their butt off for a long time, to have their toon be changed. Its called freedom to the masses, freedom is not cheap.

[BluelabelD]

Well said, that's the only reason to not have it in from Bioware's point of view. By the end of the year, this feature will be added. Mark my words.

 

Personally I completely agree with the idea of allowing AC respec. It will not hurt the game in any significant way, and will give people more options and flexibility in how they play the game; it will be especially nice for those of us who regret our AC choice.

 

My server is a pre order server, and the majority of everyone on my server, thinks the same way, thank you.

[BluelabelD]

This is why there won't ever be an AC reset. It's the same reason other MMOs don't allow you to change your class. It lowers the value of the class and reduces the replay value of the game. It renders the entire AC system meaningless. Anything that discourages players from making new characters is bad for business. Bioware wants you to make more characters, not less. Very few players will leave if they never implement this, but implementing it will cost them subscriptions. The dev work involved would also be costly. As you say, they are here to make money so they aren't going to pay the salary of developers to add a feature that will lose them money. AC Reset makes as much sense to Bioware's financial bottom line as a base class reset.

 

Their most common response to the "too long wait" for the server queue issue at launch? "Roll a new character on another server". They're response to "I'm bored of being a Powertech" is also going to be "roll a new character".

 

The whole fourm, for a while had no insight, cause of people whom hated the idea, and wouldn't hear anything. This is the first time in over 30 pages, that someone posted something, that is near 100 percent right and valid. Thank you for your post and inriching everyone who is reading* this fourm.

Edited January 26, 2012 by BluelabelD

[BluelabelD]

My last post tonight is this.

 

I hope BioWare, does what is best for the game.

 

To what i mean is this, If they put advanced class respec into the game, imo... and i played tons of mmo's it would increase the population, making this game player base increase alot.

 

If the player base increases alot, they make money, and yes BioWare likes money, but they also like to make a good soild game, so i think they will put advanced class respec in soon,

 

BioWare might devalue some of their work, by putting it in, but as a whole, they will gain way more then trying to milk it more, the way it is. It would be counter intuitive and maladaptive for BioWare not to put advanced class respec in the game soon.

[Sabarok]

Here are reasons in favour of AC reset:

 

1) It makes the game easier by giving players more roles they can fill

2) Players don't need to make a new character to try different things

3) ACs share about 20% of the quest content.

4) Half of the classes have access to all 3 roles and never need more than 1 character to do everything

 

Here are reasons against AC reset:

 

1) It makes the game easier by giving players more roles they can fill

2) Players don't need to make a new character to try different things

3) ACs share the other 80% of the quest content with every other AC on their faction

4) Half the classes have access to all 3 roles and never need more than 1 character to do everything

5) The other half of the classes don't have access to all 3 roles and would be left out

6) Different ACs will often require different equipment

7) The drastic change in playstyle from the other AC can overwhelm players now stuck with a class they have no idea how to play

8) Renders the entire class system meaningless

[Ivaed]

Here are reasons in favour of AC reset:

 

1) It makes the game easier by giving players more roles they can fill

2) Players don't need to make a new character to try different things

3) ACs share about 20% of the quest content.

4) Half of the classes have access to all 3 roles and never need more than 1 character to do everything

 

Here are reasons against AC reset:

 

1) It makes the game easier by giving players more roles they can fill

2) Players don't need to make a new character to try different things

3) ACs share the other 80% of the quest content with every other AC on their faction

4) Half the classes have access to all 3 roles and never need more than 1 character to do everything

5) The other half of the classes don't have access to all 3 roles and would be left out

6) Different ACs will often require different equipment

7) The drastic change in playstyle from the other AC can overwhelm players now stuck with a class they have no idea how to play

8) Renders the entire class system meaningless

 

It's funny how almost every single one of these reasons (both for and against) are a complete matter of opinion. Also, several of your "against" reasons are some of the exact reasons why I think it would be a good thing to add.

[Sai-to]

I think BioWare is a company that want to make money.

 

BioWare does watch to what some of the player bases wants or demands, and yes they do make changes.

 

Example would be the guild bank they are putting in the game now, why? cause so many people and guild's complained about it, so they put it in the gamne, this up comming patch.

 

Just cause Advanced class respec is not in the game right now, means not much, could very be intended to be in the next patch after.

 

 

They didn't put a guild bank in because people whined about it. They were always planning on having guild banks.

 

 

However, you are right that they will make changes. But they'll only make changes that the majority want. And I can guarantee that the majority do NOT want AC respecing.

[Lazerius-]

I'm for dual spec, so that, for instance, we can freely swap between a tank and dps roll, or healer and dps roll, or even a ops dps and a pvp dps roll.

 

I am, however, highly opposed to Adanced Class Respec.

 

A player should not be able to change between being a force-spell caster and a rogue, as this would knock the specializing of 8 different classes, into basically just 4 classes.

 

 

It was quite clear that when you made the option, your choice was permanent. Reroll that class again if you want to play the other side of the base class.

[Toadbat]

It's funny how almost every single one of these reasons (both for and against) are a complete matter of opinion. Also, several of your "against" reasons are some of the exact reasons why I think it would be a good thing to add.

 

Let's see:

 

1) It makes the game easier by giving players more roles they can fill

 

Having more roles one can fill does not necessarily make the game easier. So opinion.

 

2) Players don't need to make a new character to try different things

 

Since each of the advanced classes for any base class has different roles, this is true. A player would not need to roll a new character to try a different play style (i.e. different things). So, Fact.

 

3) ACs share the other 80% of the quest content with every other AC on their faction

 

Not sure where the 80% comes from, so I will not opine on this one.

 

4) Half the classes have access to all 3 roles and never need more than 1 character to do everything

 

Trooper, Counselar, Inquisitor and Bounty Hunter (that's 4 of 8 total base classes) can all choose to Tank, Heal or DPS. Fact.

 

5) The other half of the classes don't have access to all 3 roles and would be left out

 

Jedi and Sith Warriors can tank or DPS, Smugglers and Agents can Heal or DPS. So, Fact.

 

6) Different ACs will often require different equipment

 

Both armor and weapons (incuding offhand) are different for all of the advance classes. Some can be reused (e.g. Powertechs and Mercenaries can use Blaster Pistols). Often requires different equipment is a Fact.

 

7) The drastic change in playstyle from the other AC can overwhelm players now stuck with a class they have no idea how to play

 

This really depends on the player. So, Opinion.

 

8) Renders the entire class system meaningless

 

Obviously Opinion. (if revised to "Renders the entire Advanced class system meaningless" this also would become fact)

 

 

Ok, let's take a count. Facts 4 Opinions 3, even if I gave you the one abstain, the statement:

 

"It's funny how almost every single one of these reasons (both for and against) are a complete matter of opinion."

 

is false.

 

That you think the cons are actually pros, well that is opinion, which you are entitled to.

 

-Toadbat

Edited January 26, 2012 by Toadbat
Added content for clarity.