Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[NecrologyX]

Sentinel is a Knight AC, Sage is a Consular AC...

 

 

 

Just because something is done in WoW doesn't mean it's the best way to do it.

 

Even if there are some classes in WoW that have spec's that can do all three rolls, it doesn't change the fact that you still can not change your paladin into a warrior.

 

So that is hardly a valid argument why they should allow AC switching in this game.

 

You are correct, I meant Shadow. My apologies. The fact still remains, its the same class with just a different talent spec.

[VanorDM]

I can't agree with you more, there are 8 classes in game, why make us level 16 to see all the content, makes 0 sense.

 

Have you played more then one character?

 

The class quest for both Sentinel and Guardian is the same. So if you make either one you've seen all the Knight content.

 

There are however 16 classes in this game, not 8. There are 8 story lines, and 16 classes.

[aznthecapn]

its the same class with just a different talent spec.

 

No, its a different class with two completely different talent trees. Some even have massive gameplay changes. An assassin is a melee combat class w/stealth. A Sorcerer is a ranged DPS class without stealth. That's vastly different gameplay.

[VanorDM]

The fact still remains, its the same class with just a different talent spec.

 

No, that is far from a fact, because there is a huge difference between a Shadow and Sage.

 

Shadow is a double lightsaber wielding melee Tank/Stealth DPS class.

Sage is a ranged Healer/DPS class.

 

You are quite literately trying to say that there's no difference between a WoW warrior and a WoW priest, if you think those two are the same class with different talent specs.

Edited January 25, 2012 by VanorDM

[NecrologyX]

If you're someone who wants to play all the storylines, you can easily do that without AC swapping. Just roll the AC mirror you don't have on the other faction.

 

Republic - Jedi Guardian, Consular Sage, Smuggler Gunslinger, Trooper Vanguard.

Empire - Sith Marauder, Sith Assassin, Imperial Agent Operative, Bounty Hunter Mercenary

 

Same classes, different stories the whole way.

 

 

 

Because its a different game and not designed that way. Those trees are part of the Paladin class. The fact that druids and paladins can fulfill three different roles makes them the exception to the rule - not the proof of it. Out of 10 classes in WoW, only 2 meet your example. That's not evidence of a good example. Incidentally, they have been two of the toughest classes to manage for in game between resource balancing and gear adjustments. I have no doubt Blizzard regrets giving them three roles.

 

I dont want to play the storylines if by getting to 50 my chosen character is worthless because they are stuck being DPS when I need them to tank or heal. You're basically saying that because I am good at the game (thats not bragging, my friends 5 year old son is better than most people that play MMOs so its not hard) and could gear/play all aspects of my toon I am punished by being locked out of a playstyle cause bioware lied and said AC's would have different stories and gave them the same ones?

 

Face it, bioware made 4 classes that they want to be 8. All your posturing cant change that cause there are only 4 classes with 5 specs - 2 of the specs just get locked when you hit 10.

[VanorDM]

All your posturing cant change that cause there are only 4 classes with 5 specs - 2 of the specs just get locked when you hit 10.

 

Really, so Bioware got it wrong when they named everything... Because clearly the way things are setup show you are 100% wrong in that statement.

 

If what you said was true, then you could respec at will between Sage and Shadow trees... But the fact that you can't and want them to add it to the game proves that they are in fact different classes.

 

cause bioware lied and said AC's would have different stories and gave them the same ones?

 

Please show me a quote or anything at all that ever said that the AC's would have different story lines.

Edited January 25, 2012 by VanorDM

[NecrologyX]

No, that is far from a fact, because there is a huge difference between a Shadow and Sage.

 

Shadow is a double lightsaber wielding melee Tank/Stealth DPS class.

Sage is a ranged Healer/DPS class.

 

You are quite literately trying to say that there's no difference between a WoW warrior and a WoW priest, if you think those two are the same class with different talent specs.

 

A boomkin is a ranged caster

A feral cat is a melee dps

A feral bear is a tank

A resto druid is a healer

 

same toon, different gear, different roles - this is more what the ToR classes are. Only in ToR, I got to 10 and they locked me out of part of my class. Yet I still have the same abilities. At least in wow i dont spam moonfire as a cat BUT MY FRIENDS SHADOW SURE USES PROJECT JUST LIKE I DO

[NecrologyX]

Really, so Bioware got it wrong when they named everything... Because clearly the way things are setup show you are 100% wrong in that statement.

 

If what you said was true, then you could respec at will between Sage and Shadow trees... But the fact that you can't and want them to add it to the game proves that they are in fact different classes.

 

You cannot have an ADVANCED class without a BASE class. So even by your logic, they are in fact the same class.

[NecrologyX]

Also, what does it hurt you that I can be a healer or a dps or a tank on one toon? That just means that when YOUR group is spamming LF1M X role I might be willing to respec to fill it?

 

With the current LACK OF PEOPLE at 50 on some servers, how does this hurt the game?

[aznthecapn]

I dont want to play the storylines if by getting to 50 my chosen character is worthless because they are stuck being DPS when I need them to tank or heal. You're basically saying that because I am good at the game (thats not bragging, my friends 5 year old son is better than most people that play MMOs so its not hard) and could gear/play all aspects of my toon I am punished by being locked out of a playstyle cause bioware lied and said AC's would have different stories and gave them the same ones?

 

Where did they lie? Classes have different stories, yes. Maybe you misread it somewhere? I you want your chosen class to have choices, then pick a class with more than one role available through talent spec. I'm all for people changing while leveling because they want to test out both ACs and decide which they like. But once you hit 50 it causes too many issues that have been rehashed (by me and others) in this thread and others like it.

 

Face it, bioware made 4 classes that they want to be 8. All your posturing cant change that cause there are only 4 classes with 5 specs - 2 of the specs just get locked when you hit 10.

 

I didn't realize I was posturing. I was stating something I know: there are 8 mirrored classes in this game on opposing factions. Each class shares a story line with another class on the same faction. That gives you 8 stories to explore and a class on each to do it with to make them all different in both content and playstyle. Sounds like a great plan to me.

[VanorDM]

You cannot have an ADVANCED class without a BASE class. So even by your logic, they are in fact the same class.

 

No, not at all. They start off as the same base class, and then are converted into one of two advanced classes.

 

Not sure what's so hard to understand here.

 

It's a bit like the guy trying to claim that this should be allowed because Advanced Classes aren't actually called Classes... Even though the word Class is clearly part of the name.

[Sildred]

To the person with the wow analogy--- you are missing one very important part. Sure, they could do all three roles, however it would be very difficult to maintain all three roles. I myself had a paladin Nd a druid. The paladin needs three sets of gear for raiding in order to be effective. The Druid, while only needing two, would have to change out several buffs to maintain effectiveness. To further the point, you would also have to redo your talent tree. Honestly, I cannot think of one person that I personally know who had a paladin perform all three specs within one content patch. I only know of a handful of Druids. This was in nearly a five year period. This game is a lot different than wow. If you are going to make comparison of equality, please don't compare apples to oranges; they come from different trees. My last point... In this game, you can get by with one suit of armor for any spec. Sure from a min max stand point the variation in stats hurts, but raiding here is nothing like wow. If a healer wears dps gear, they can still heal in an op. the same can be said for a tank in dps gear.

[aznthecapn]

A boomkin is a ranged caster

A feral cat is a melee dps

A feral bear is a tank

A resto druid is a healer

 

same toon, different gear, different roles - this is more what the ToR classes are. Only in ToR, I got to 10 and they locked me out of part of my class. Yet I still have the same abilities. At least in wow i dont spam moonfire as a cat BUT MY FRIENDS SHADOW SURE USES PROJECT JUST LIKE I DO

 

I've already states why a druid from WoW is a terrible example. First off - this isn't WoW. That's pretty self-explanatory. Secondly, its been one of the most difficult classes for Blizzard to gear/develop/balance for in the history of the game. Same for paladins. They are an EXCEPTION to the class system. Of 10 classes in WoW, only TWO can fill all three roles. That is not the standard.

[VanorDM]

Also, what does it hurt you that I can be a healer or a dps or a tank on one toon?

 

It hurts me because you may very well not have any clue on how to be a healer. As it stands right now I can say for sure that you at least played to level X as that AC so you should have some understanding of the basics of the class.

 

Let someone who played a Shadow to 50 become a Sage, and they may have no clue at all how to play the sage class. This can cause quite a lot of harm to me.

 

Your comment about a Shadow using project the same as a Sage, pretty well proves that point.

Edited January 25, 2012 by VanorDM

[aznthecapn]

Also, what does it hurt you that I can be a healer or a dps or a tank on one toon? That just means that when YOUR group is spamming LF1M X role I might be willing to respec to fill it?

 

Harm to you or me is a moot point. Its a game-altering feature that Bioware has provided a solution for.

 

You don't need AC changing at max level.

[NecrologyX]

To the person with the wow analogy--- you are missing one very important part. Sure, they could do all three roles, however it would be very difficult to maintain all three roles. I myself had a paladin Nd a druid. The paladin needs three sets of gear for raiding in order to be effective. The Druid, while only needing two, would have to change out several buffs to maintain effectiveness. To further the point, you would also have to redo your talent tree. Honestly, I cannot think of one person that I personally know who had a paladin perform all three specs within one content patch. I only know of a handful of Druids. This was in nearly a five year period. This game is a lot different than wow. If you are going to make comparison of equality, please don't compare apples to oranges; they come from different trees. My last point... In this game, you can get by with one suit of armor for any spec. Sure from a min max stand point the variation in stats hurts, but raiding here is nothing like wow. If a healer wears dps gear, they can still heal in an op. the same can be said for a tank in dps gear.

 

I have a druid who, during both LK and Cata (was a LK toon I leveled for fun), has maintained top tier sets of gear for all specs I wanted to play. No where am I - or hopefully ANYONE - asking for DPS caster gear on a sage to function at the same level or even at all on a Shadow - but since its the same class I should be able to spec freely back and forth. There is no in game reason to disallow it - my story doesnt change.

 

Read that again - my story DOESNT change.

 

So again - how does me being able to redo my advance class detrimental to you? cause I might be a bad tank or a bad healer or a bad dps? Right now I'm not even playing that toon, so I am not anything. So go head, spam in trade LFM for blah blah operation or FP.

[NecrologyX]

It hurts me because you may very well not have any clue on how to be a healer. As it stands right now I can say for sure that you at least played to level X as that AC so you should have some understanding of the basics of the class.

 

Let someone who played a Shadow to 50 become a Sage, and they may have no clue at all how to play the sage class. This can cause quite a lot of harm to me.

 

Your comment about a Shadow using project the same as a Sage, pretty well proves that point.

 

I leveled as DPS 1-50 as a sage. I respecced to heals at 50. How is this different? I dont know how to heal as a sage anymore than I know how to dps as a Shadow - fun fact, it takes about 10 minutes of reading on the internet to figure out rotations.

 

if you arent willing to do that, you're probably bad no matter what.

 

Leveling and end game content are two HUGELY different things

[VanorDM]

So again - how does me being able to redo my advance class detrimental to you? cause I might be a bad tank or a bad healer or a bad dps?

 

That's exactly the reason why.

 

I'd rather skip doing a OP or FP completely then have one wipe a number of times because someone doesn't understand the basics of their class. At least then I don't have to pay repair bills, because someone though it would be fun to be a healer.

 

Also, by allowing AC respecs you are effectively taking AC's completely out of the game, because then they don't matter. I like having AC's, I don't want them removed from the game.

[aznthecapn]

I have a druid who, during both LK and Cata (was a LK toon I leveled for fun), has maintained top tier sets of gear for all specs I wanted to play. No where am I - or hopefully ANYONE - asking for DPS caster gear on a sage to function at the same level or even at all on a Shadow - but since its the same class I should be able to spec freely back and forth. There is no in game reason to disallow it - my story doesnt change.

 

Read that again - my story DOESNT change.

 

So again - how does me being able to redo my advance class detrimental to you? cause I might be a bad tank or a bad healer or a bad dps? Right now I'm not even playing that toon, so I am not anything. So go head, spam in trade LFM for blah blah operation or FP.

 

Story is but one thing that makes something a similar class. Their gameplay is a FAR more relevant aspect. The story goes away when you hit 50. The gameplay does not. Two classes are drastically different in gameplay and therefore are two different classes.

 

Your ability to maintain top tier gearing is moot and skewed. Perhaps you were the only druid in a 10 man raid? It proves nothing. Hell, you could've been the only druid in a 25 man raid and still gotten some of the best gear - you're the only caster/healer/tank wearing leather! Your only competition for DPS loot is rogues.

 

So again - it doesn't have to be detrimental to me for me to not want it in game.

[VanorDM]

So again - it doesn't have to be detrimental to me for me to not want it in game.

 

Even if this didn't cause wipes and other issues. As I said above, allowing AC respecs effectively removes the whole AC system from the game.

 

That will cause me harm.

[Sabarok]

Even if this didn't cause wipes and other issues. As I said above, allowing AC respecs effectively removes the whole AC system from the game.

 

That will cause me harm.

 

Agreed.

 

I can imagine that if ever Bioware were to add in the code supporting AC respec, we'd start having threads of people asking for dual-AC-spec so they can swap between ACs during raids to be able to cover all the roles.

 

As for the posts trying to compare the skill trees to AC specs, A Sorceror who leveled to 50 as a DPS still has most of the same skills as a Sorceror that switched to a DPS spec. The skill tree also allows players to pick and choose from each spec, so a Sorceror can be specced in both Healing and DPS. You can't have a character that can pick & choose what they want between Powertech & Mercenary.

 

Adding this feature means Bioware would be halving the number of classes players can choose from, which dimishes the value of SWTOR because it's heavily based on rolling new characters. They aren't going to add it because they want you to have 8 characters to experience all ACs. 16 if you want to experience all ACs on both sides. That's why they gave us a 40 character limit.

[Sildred]

I have a druid who, during both LK and Cata (was a LK toon I leveled for fun), has maintained top tier sets of gear for all specs I wanted to play. No where am I - or hopefully ANYONE - asking for DPS caster gear on a sage to function at the same level or even at all on a Shadow - but since its the same class I should be able to spec freely back and forth. There is no in game reason to disallow it - my story doesnt change.

 

Read that again - my story DOESNT change.

 

So again - how does me being able to redo my advance class detrimental to you? cause I might be a bad tank or a bad healer or a bad dps? Right now I'm not even playing that toon, so I am not anything. So go head, spam in trade LFM for blah blah operation or FP.

 

But that is where you are missing the point! While you personally my not intend to use the same gear on your sage as a shadow, if this is allowed people will. The problem doesn't even come from the fact that they can, but the fact that people will. Please, try to understand me. A sith jugg can wear medium armor, but they don't because they loose to much armor to tank in it. However, using the sage to shadow example, you would maintain at least 90 percent effectiveness. Force power is the same; willpower is the same; all secondary stats effect melds and casting. Sure, one may prefer surge over critical or what have you, but the point remains. End game content is different here than in wow. While wow was vastly unforgiving if you did not gear properly for raiding, this game is not.

 

To further it, your point about the Druid is also wrong: you maintained a dexterity based set and a int based set in order to Do both melee dps and heals. This game is not like that. If you cannot grasp that simple concept then pleas try to understand this one: there are four classes in the game and eight advanced classes. Take away the work to have advanced classes and you tak away half of the games replay value. As it is, people complain that there is not enough to do. By taking away the advanced class concept they might as well just give us all five talent trees on each base class. Then we could really see less of a low level to mid level range in the following months. Oh, not to mention more competition for gear, more nerf cries for op specs( if it's easy to switch why wouldn't people change to the best), and more people quitting because they are tired of everyone having the same classes in pvp and pve.

[Sai-to]

Complain all you guys want. This feature will come regardless.

 

 

No, it won't.

 

But nice try Harold Camping. Your last 10 predictions were wrong too.

[Sai-to]

A boomkin is a ranged caster

A feral cat is a melee dps

A feral bear is a tank

A resto druid is a healer

 

same toon, different gear, different roles - this is more what the ToR classes are. Only in ToR, I got to 10 and they locked me out of part of my class. Yet I still have the same abilities. At least in wow i dont spam moonfire as a cat BUT MY FRIENDS SHADOW SURE USES PROJECT JUST LIKE I DO

 

 

Nope, it's not at all the same.

 

Switching from Sage to Shadow would be like switching from Priest to Rogue. Completely different classes with different skills and completely separate Talent trees.

[NecrologyX]

nope, it's not at all the same.

 

Switching from sage to shadow would be like switching from priest to rogue. Completely different classes with different skills and completely separate talent trees.

 

 

lol each class shares a talent tree lololol