Sniper is the worst ranged DPS?

[Ayestes]

Cover provides no real bonuses except against other snipers. If you had any idea how m itigation works in this game, you'd realize that. If you aren't lethality, you aren't doing "plenty of damage" to heavy-armor targets. That's just, as you put it, math.

 

Try to at least pretend you're actually playing a sniper.

 

I didn't specifically mention mitigation as the reason I view Cover + Medium Armor as an advantage over just Heavy Armor. I believe you assumed that was my reason. The advantage I'm looking at are immunity to pushback, interruption, charging, and pulling. I do understand mitigation by the way, that extra 20% Defense chance works against more then other Snipers. It'll work great against most Juggernaught, Marauder, and Assassin attacks as well. That wasn't even what I was considering however when talking about the advantages of cover.

 

Oh and thanks for the inflammatory comment that has no discussion value.

 

You cant raid mark players.

 

Yeah you can.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Ayestes

[Noctournys]

I didn't specifically mention mitigation as the reason I view Cover + Medium Armor as an advantage over just Heavy Armor. It's primarily the other reasons such as immunity to pushback, interruption, charging, and pulling. I do understand mitigation by the way, that extra 20% Defense chance works against more then other Snipers. It'll work great against Juggernaughts, Marauders, and Assassins as well.

 

Learning to read would probably be a skill you might consider picking up. Cover provides a 20% dodge bonus against ranged attacks. This sounds pretty awesome, until you realize that it only works against attacks which deal weapon damage. Against a merc, itll work against.. their pistol spam and rail shot, nothing else. Against another sniper, it's great, since almost every single attack they use (unless lethality) is a weapon attack. It works against... throw saber.. from a Jugg? Wowza. The only thing it is good for, really is immunity to pushback, which, given the long casts a marksman has to deal with, is necessary. Mercs.. dont have log casts. They can step into and out of LoS, pop off a missile, and be back out of LoS before you can fire off a shot at them, in most cases.

 

The immunity to charging and pulling, btw, only works in natural cover, as far as i can tell, or doesn't apply to mobs, as i have been both pulled and charged by mobs when in portable cover. I dont really notice with players because i dont use cover anymore - im lethality now, so that i can actually do damage to heavy armor targets.

 

Yeah you can.

 

You can only raid-mark friendlies. I know this because just this morning i tried to mark the two enemy healers so people could see them and would kill them. When you right-click on their portrait, there is no option to raid mark them. You cannot raid mark hostile players.

[shadowAI]

 

The immunity to charging and pulling, btw, only works in natural cover, as far as i can tell, or doesn't apply to mobs, as i have been both pulled and charged by mobs when in portable cover. I dont really notice with players because i dont use cover anymore - im lethality now, so that i can actually do damage to heavy armor targets.

 

doesnt apply to mobs....

[PFifteyOneD]

So after trying to get the daily on my sniper today, I can honestly say, snipers are broken.

 

 

Please PLEASE if you think the class is fine, answer this, given equal gear, why bring a sniper over a merc on any raid or in a pvp group?

 

 

Mercs are more damage, in heavy armor, can heal, ranged stun. Snipers need some loving. Maybe it has rto do witht he fact that we get no new spammable skill like other classes do? Mercs get talented skill tracer missile. Operatives get backstab. We use the same spam skill from lvl 1, snipe.

 

 

While the class is fun, it is not in the same league as Mercs and DPS sorcs. It really isnt. My 23 merc equals my damage no problem in warzones, and doing the damage is so EASY! My 50 sorc in green gear with 11k hp was more useful for my PvP team than my sniper in full champ epics. Snipers need a rework. We are the only class to be affected by shield generators too. While my Merc can DPS a tank, as a sniper, there is zero pont to even try. DPS tank class? Good luck! Im doing 47% mitigated damage while taking 3k crits.

 

Snipers are broken, sorry.

 

because in worse gear I can can mutilate anything (talking level 50 me (mostly still in lvl 40 pvp gear with voss comendation rifle and 4 pieces of champ gear, no set bonus' yet. got 2x implant, earpiece and pants). and I can still drop anything in front of me (you know what they say about location in reality, same applies to us, vs a lvl 50 anything that is equal or better geared).

 

and in pve we bring 20% armor reduction debuff (pretty sure thats sniper spec) and very good sustained dps.

 

also if you are using snipe as much as you sound like you are, that would be the reason you dps sucks.

Edited January 17, 2012 by PFifteyOneD

[Vesperr]

As a tankasin (dont ask what am I doing here (actually looking for high damage builds for pve)) lately snipers doesnt seem to pose the threat other classes do. They are quite hard to kill (lots of CC and immunity to CC in cover makes them tanky). Snipers are more like support class than anything else (ranged aoe mezz is awesome), because their shots can be deflected/shielded and they dont ignore armor like mercs shots and they do some kind of sustained dps instead of mercs faceroll (they dont really faceroll a geared player but they do hit hard). Your damage is somewhat close to sorc it seems (single target), but sorcs abilities are force attacks so they ignore shields and defense, and they are more mobile and have more utility. So snipers are more tankier than mercs but do less damage which seems so wrong...

 

 

p.s. Defense is only useful (actually the worst stats for tank in PvP) against classes that do weapons damage - juggs,maras and other snipers, and considering that cover gives 20% ranged defense bonus, it only helps against other snipers...

[BubbleDncr]

At level 50, I usually end up somewhere in the 100K range for damage in warzones. I've never gotten into the 200 or 300K range, like I've seen some other snipers boast about. But then again, I only have 3 pieces of Champion gear and don't use my adrenals and relics very often, so that could be my problem.

 

I am, however, in a good game, generally ranked between 1-4 in the overall rankings. In a bad game, I'm still usually the highest ranked on my team. And its been that way since about level 40.

 

So snipers definitely can be good at PVP. But in my experience, we're on par in damage with other classes.

Edited January 17, 2012 by BubbleDncr

[Ayestes]

Learning to read would probably be a skill you might consider picking up. Cover provides a 20% dodge bonus against ranged attacks. This sounds pretty awesome, until you realize that it only works against attacks which deal weapon damage. Against a merc, itll work against.. their pistol spam and rail shot, nothing else. Against another sniper, it's great, since almost every single attack they use (unless lethality) is a weapon attack. It works against... throw saber.. from a Jugg? Wowza. The only thing it is good for, really is immunity to pushback, which, given the long casts a marksman has to deal with, is necessary. Mercs.. dont have log casts. They can step into and out of LoS, pop off a missile, and be back out of LoS before you can fire off a shot at them, in most cases.

 

The immunity to charging and pulling, btw, only works in natural cover, as far as i can tell, or doesn't apply to mobs, as i have been both pulled and charged by mobs when in portable cover. I dont really notice with players because i dont use cover anymore - im lethality now, so that i can actually do damage to heavy armor targets.

 

Calm down man! I've never, once said the opposite of what you just said. All you appear to be doing is shouting inflammatory comments and repeating the same thing I've already talked about. To repeat, I've never once said or even thought that the 20% defense chance works against tech/force attacks. The reason I think cover + medium armor is better then heavy armor is not based on the mitigation, it's based on the immunities we get. Those immunities apply with portable cover most certainly.

 

I will admit thought I made one mistake. I thought the Hold Position Passive gave us 20% Defense to everything instead of just ranged attacks. Therefore it has nothing to do with the Assassin, Juggernaught, or Maurader. I had that confused with Evasion somehow. Honestly I don't really have trouble with melee so I'd never notice the extra 20% Dodge chance anyway. Again though, my point isn't about the mitigation it's about the immunities. Clearly you and I have different opinions on that, so I think we should stop that discussion as it's pointless to argue opinions on the internet.

 

Also... Tracer Missile is definitely long enough of a cast to LoS and Interrupt which I do rather frequently. The fact that you are Lethality and don't see this is rather confusing to me.

 

You can only raid-mark friendlies. I know this because just this morning i tried to mark the two enemy healers so people could see them and would kill them. When you right-click on their portrait, there is no option to raid mark them. You cannot raid mark hostile players.

 

I'll admit, I've never tried this myself. I have however seen other players do it. Therefore I'm pretty sure you have at least been able to in the past.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Ayestes

[BubbleDncr]

 

 

You cant raid mark players.

 

Just an FYI.

 

 

I haven't done it myself, but someone on my team did it last night it voidstar to the other team's healer.

[SkatheX]

At level 50, I usually end up somewhere in the 100K range for damage in warzones. I've never gotten into the 200 or 300K range, like I've seen some other snipers boast about. But then again, I only have 3 pieces of Champion gear and don't use my adrenals and relics very often, so that could be my problem.

 

I am, however, in a good game, generally ranked between 1-4 in the overall rankings. In a bad game, I'm still usually the highest ranked on my team. And its been that way since about level 40.

 

So snipers definitely can be good at PVP. But in my experience, we're on par in damage with other classes.

 

7 times out of 10 I am top DMG, Kills to Death, and Objectives. Now with that said, we have issues. MAJOR glaring you in the face issues. I dont think we need to be buffed or nerf'd per say but revamped.

 

Some minor things such as.. Ambush needs to be renamed to "Head Shot." And vice versa. Our current Ambush needs to be kinetic damage, but not snipe. Cover should be a bonus and not required. Cover Pulse should be able to be used while not in cover.

 

I could go on and on. But what all of this boils down to.. animations need to have a cancel effect when another skill is used. This would eliminate MOST delays when using abilities which would help most people.

[Jrzez]

Here's my take I posted elsewhere before:

Class/Spec is a pure DPS class with zero heals in which we must root ourselves to do the major abilities thus:

 

- They should have the highest DPS to counter classes that have heals.

- They should have a mortal-strike/shot debuff that drastically lowers healing.

- They need a decent self-heal.

 

This is a good first step to making the class more effective in PVP at least.

[Trashcand]

Everyone talks about MM, no one has tried lethality. All of the damage is internal so it doesn't

 

matter who you shoot they take the same amount of damage. Which makes killing tanks ever

 

so fun, because while everyone is hitting them lightly you're doing your normal damage to

 

them and racking up the damage. It doesn't require you to be rooted so you can kite melee,

 

and be more active on the battlefield while dealing your maximum damage, we are not

 

required to be Marksmanship to do awesome damage. I do 300k+ every battleground with a

 

personal best of 529k so the damage is good if not better, especially while in combat with

 

people. It's also great for PVE, I believe it also does more single target than MM does. When i

 

first hit 50 i was scared to spec out of MM because i was so used to it and the big numbers

 

but after i tried lethality i haven't specced back.

[xdvesper]

Please don't brag about Lethality numbers.

 

We only do crap damage, below 100k per warzone, and our PVE damage is crap.

 

Really. Do not try this spec. It's a waste of respec cost.

 

/// *whispers* hush. do you want to get us nerfed?

 

Ah hell. I've seen more and more people start using Lethality nowadays, so I guess it's not going to remain a secret much longer.

 

But yes, my damage done in WZ went up significantly when I specced to Lethality, personal best of well over 400k, and 300k+ is really not unusual anymore. Having damage that completely ignores Trooper and Guardian armor is fantastic, and we do SO MUCH BETTER against melee now that you don't need cover, and can simply use Debilitate stun (talented for less cooldown and gives +movement speed) then kite with all your instant attacks (corrosive grenade, corrosive dart, weakening blast, then pop trinkets and adrenals then cull for absolutely insane damage).

[Tibbel]

Lethality is a very energy-intensive spec to play.

 

Because we have to spend so much energy applying/reapplying poisons and then using Cull, there's a lot of downtime required for energy regen. In a PvE environment, that means a lot of energy-free Rifle Shots, which really hurt sustained DPS -- but in PvP, where sustained DPS takes a back-seat to burst, Lethality can really shine.

 

Every sniper, no matter which spec, is going to have to use key utility abilities like Flash Bang or Debilitate in PvP. Whereas a spec like MM might be putting off heavy-damage abilities such as Followthrough or Ambush for survival, a Lethality sniper can more often use defensive abilities in place of Rifle Shots and not sacrifice nearly as much damage potential.

 

Of course, there are the added benefits that almost none of the abilities a Lethality sniper uses require cover and that much of the damage output is armor-ignoring internal damage.

 

Lethality is really well suited for the style of PvP that plagues the more grounded Marksmanship and Engineering specs (especially in the sniper-unfriendly huttball arena), so it requires a bit less luck, precise skill, and help from the other team to perform well in warzones.

[IBLOCKDOORS]

Psst, let me tell you a secret about MMO's The better the player the more higher the dps. Its a secret dont tell anyone.

[mjAstro]

Yes you CAN raid mark enemy players. I do it every single warzone to enemy healers. Just because you couldn't figure it out doesn't mean you cannot do it. Edited January 30, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude

[Noctournys]

Yes you CAN raid mark enemy players. I do it every single warzone to enemy healers. Just because you couldn't figure it out doesn't mean you cannot do it.

 

Right click on their nameplate/portrait...

 

no option to mark an enemy player.

 

So if you'd like to tell me how you convinced the game to do something the UI wont allow you to do...

 

great.

Edited January 30, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude - quote/reply

[JoyProtocol]

Right click on their nameplate/portrait...

 

no option to mark an enemy player.

 

So if you'd like to tell me how you convinced the game to do something the UI wont allow you to do...

 

great.

 

 

I haven't looked for it, but in most MMO's you can hotkey raid marks. Because right-clicking sucks, amirite?

Check keybinds.

Edited January 30, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude - quote

[applepie]

I personally love our AoE blind, using it in a huge skirmish and blinding half he enemy team is one of my favorite things to do

[Kanharn]

So after trying to get the daily on my sniper today, I can honestly say, snipers are broken.

 

 

Please PLEASE if you think the class is fine, answer this, given equal gear, why bring a sniper over a merc on any raid or in a pvp group?

 

 

Mercs are more damage, in heavy armor, can heal, ranged stun. Snipers need some loving. Maybe it has rto do witht he fact that we get no new spammable skill like other classes do? Mercs get talented skill tracer missile. Operatives get backstab. We use the same spam skill from lvl 1, snipe.

 

 

While the class is fun, it is not in the same league as Mercs and DPS sorcs. It really isnt. My 23 merc equals my damage no problem in warzones, and doing the damage is so EASY! My 50 sorc in green gear with 11k hp was more useful for my PvP team than my sniper in full champ epics. Snipers need a rework. We are the only class to be affected by shield generators too. While my Merc can DPS a tank, as a sniper, there is zero pont to even try. DPS tank class? Good luck! Im doing 47% mitigated damage while taking 3k crits.

 

Snipers are broken, sorry.

Classic case of 'I cant play my class so it must be broken' lol.

[DestyOwn]

Right click on their nameplate/portrait...

 

no option to mark an enemy player.

 

So if you'd like to tell me how you convinced the game to do something the UI wont allow you to do...

 

great.

 

its only the leader or the lieutenants that can mark people in a ops group.

[Desgarden]

You can say what you want but for a pure dps class which lacks the enormours advantage and versatility of healing the whole sniper package is lacking. With package I mean the damage and how it is mitigated and the utility itself.

 

The problem is that other dps classes provide the nearly or even better (burst) dps - especially on heavily armoured targets - while being more mobile and have lots of other perks.

 

Then of course another drawback is for snipers that every ability seems to have a prerequiste - which other classes don't have either.

 

Also I do not see much of area denial capabilities. If you need to defend something, the other team can reliably push your out from cover (if you can't get entrench up in time) and then simply roll over you. Other classes can at least kite to keep 1 target out of range while nuking the other.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Desgarden

[uQQme]

This thread fails. Snipers are actually worse at close range dps.

[Bamfed]

Good job you just destroyed a level 11-49 with no pvp gear.

 

or a lvl 50 that has the same amount of expertise as you... since it will be a wash at that point.

[Bamfed]

#1. Wrong, all stuns have 1 min cd, but can BE skilled to be less. Basic stuns all share the same cooldown.

 

#2. You are in no way less mobile than a sniper. Thats just not right. Sniper has to cast for each useful ability. Heartseeker/Railshot are both instant and heartseeker crits harder than ambush if geared equally.

#3. Cover doesn't increases range defense by default, only if skilled, otherwise it provides a dodge bonus, NATURAL cover is different.

 

#1 is wrong. Snipers stun is 45sec cd and most people get slip away putting it at 30sec cd with a 4 sec 30% sprint... you have seen this cool website called torhead.com? Use it since it's obvious you don't have the game yet.

 

#2 is questionable since I'm lethality so i'm bouncing around all over. I cast for one ability and I can drop to cover to make me immune to interrupts and push back, or pop entrench if i need to guarantee it to land.

 

#3 is dead wrong. Cover of any type shield or hard cover gives 20% ranged defense Always. now if your in hard cover and the target is in front of you you take ZERO damage while not attacking. they can only have a chance to attack you if you attack them, and then you still get your 20% ranged defense. which in this game defense is avoidance, no matter if you call it dodge or deflect it all means you missed.

 

#3.2 Now if cover is skilled then, it could add 30% absorb for the next 3 attacks every 6 seconds. it could add 6% straight damage reduction all the time as well

 

 

 

Nothing you said is correct. Why did you even post?

[Dogfatherxx]

Snipers are by far the worst class to play in WZs, especially huttball. The need to keep moving in order to help the team win does not work well with the cover mechanic. At the same time, our damage is on par with that of other classes (sorceror/sage) but those classes can use their abilities a lot more before exhausting their force pool (or the equivalent of a snipers energy). Also, besides limited CC and a debuff, we bring nothing to the fight (low utility). Even at nearly 600 expertise, our single target abilities do not do nearly the damage that you would think they would. Going up against equally geared players, an average ambush and follow will take of less than 25 percent of another players health. If a snipers single target damage was boosted by 25-35 percent, I would say that the class would be competative for the pure DPS role that we play. Until then, there is no reason to play a sniper.