Oneirophrenia Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Those SWG activities falls right into the time sink features category. They are cosmetic features that don't really contribute to the advancement of a character. Right or wrong, these days people play the game to see their character advance. While some of the players may enjoy or even appreciate extracurricular activities, they also don't see it as a core requirement for MMOs. As such, given the fiercely competitive environment within the MMO genre of today, developers are going to place more focus on content and progression as opposed to time sinks. After all, if social interaction and integration into a fictional world is what you seek, there is already a different kind of game for that (Second Life). Personally, I don't find those activities add to the immersion factor of a Star Wars themed MMO. Yes, I will agree that progressing through a ToR class story is similar to being taken along on a ride. However, that to me is really no different from reading a good book. Then there's the fact that I don't really find anything "heroic" about running a moisture farm, selling bantha dung fertilizers or taming a wild womp rat in the Star Wars universe. I certainly can't imagine myself doing it as a Sith. Edited January 14, 2012 by Oneirophrenia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 There is a reason that game is no longer active. You might have preferred SWG, but I would prefer they didn't turn this into SWG 2.0. Adding a few features from other games is hardly "turning it into <insert MMO here> 2.0" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I'd love to know what the source of your info is here. Press release info on gaming sites from when TOR was first announced. It'll take awhile to dig it up, but when I do, I'll be back with links. TOR was never intended to be ANYTHING like Galaxies. They were not going to license the creation of a second Star Wars MMORPG and let it be a repeat of the FIRST Star Wars MMORPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Because, as we've said and as you've ignored, they weren't content. SWG wasn't some super game making trillions of dollars. It held steady and made a profit, but they wanted more. That's why they tried to change it into WoW, to appeal to that crowd, which in turn drove the fans away. It's hardly an unknown thing, companies altering a product because they're not satisfied with their profits. And that's more or less the point, even before the changes SWG only did well with a specific, rather niche crowd. The playerbase was steady, but nowhere near WoW's numbers. Apparently Sony wasn't happy with that. Now with TOR in particular, it was always going after WoW's userbase, as well as the single-player rpg crowd. Sandbox players were just never a targeted audience for this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delusious Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 MMO's are not what they used to be, the western market has been taken over by FPS-crowd that want instant gratification and don't want to spend any time working for an item. Just see for yourself. All AAA western MMO's basically play the same and are almost all build up in the same style (LotRO/Rift/WoW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzinger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The main thing I like about SWG over SW:TOR is that you started out neutral and could pick a side. And if you went Rebel, you'd do Rebel missions to gain points. But if you wanted to go imperial, you could easily change sides (although you'd have to grind Imperial missions more to get the rebel points off). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The point I'm making is that just because a product may not have been as successful as others, doesn't mean that individual features of that product aren't worth considering. That's not really the point of this thread though. That's a worthwhile discussion for a completely different topic. Do I think something like increased depth in space combat is worth developing for this game? Sure, why not. And yes, Galaxies eventually added space combat that was deeper than what we have in this game. But THAT is not this topic. This topic is asking the question why Bioware didn't make Galaxies version 2.0 where you could build your own city and dance in the cantina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The main thing I like about SWG over SW:TOR is that you started out neutral and could pick a side. And if you went Rebel, you'd do Rebel missions to gain points. But if you wanted to go imperial, you could easily change sides (although you'd have to grind Imperial missions more to get the rebel points off). That was broken on launch day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Those SWG activities falls right into the time sink features category. They are cosmetic features that don't really contribute to the advancement of a character. Right or wrong, these days people play the game to see their character advance. While some of the players may enjoy or even appreciate extracurricular activities, they also don't see it as a core requirement for MMOs. As such, given the fiercely competitive environment within the MMO genre of today, developers are going to place more focus on content and progression as opposed to time sinks. After all, if social interaction and integration into a fictional world is what you seek, there is already a different kind of game for that (Second Life). Personally, I don't find those activities add to the immersion factor of a Star Wars themed MMO. Yes, I will agree that progressing through a ToR class story is similar to being taken along on a ride. However, that to me is really no different from reading a good book. Then there's the fact that I don't really find anything "heroic" about running a moisture farm or selling bantha dung fertilizers in the Star Wars universe. I certainly can't imagine myself doing it as a Sith. Whilst I can appreciate what you're saying and to some degree agree. I don't think it's fair to write something off just because one doesn't like it personally. That's just being subjective, rather than objective. Personally, I think the whole "heroic" thing was a completely ridiculous philosophy to push by Bioware. Something doesn't have to be "heroic" in order to be enjoyable. In the end, different people have different needs in an MMO. And an MMO that can offer content and entertainment that appeals to as much of an audience as possible, will ultimately achieve success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzinger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 That was broken on launch day. What are you talking about? I was a rebel for a while and eventually switched over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelColt Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 And that's more or less the point, even before the changes SWG only did well with a specific, rather niche crowd. The playerbase was steady, but nowhere near WoW's numbers. Apparently Sony wasn't happy with that. Now with TOR in particular, it was always going after WoW's userbase, as well as the single-player rpg crowd. Sandbox players were just never a targeted audience for this game. When SWG was released, MMOs as a whole never got widely popular. For it's time, SWG was sitting at the max amount of subs an MMO could expect to get. You have to remember that when SWG came out, there was no WoW. The MMO genre was not casualized, it wasn't mainstream. Every other MMO had similar sub numbers to SWG. So for it's time it was actually very successful. Then WoW came in and shook up the entire genre, gaining explosive popularity that SoE wanted for SWG, so they tried to emulate the features they thought made WoW popular, and in doing so doomed the game. Don't assume SWG wasn't a successful game just because it was killed off or because WoW was some giant titan, SWG was as successful as any MMO could hope to be during those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) That's not really the point of this thread though. That's a worthwhile discussion for a completely different topic. Do I think something like increased depth in space combat is worth developing for this game? Sure, why not. And yes, Galaxies eventually added space combat that was deeper than what we have in this game. But THAT is not this topic. This topic is asking the question why Bioware didn't make Galaxies version 2.0 where you could build your own city and dance in the cantina. No, the OP isn't talking about why Bioware didn't make SWG 2.0, you are essentially distilling their argument right down to the point whereby it can be ridiculed more easily. The OP is pointing out how in their opinion SWTOR lacks certain features which they consider to be immersive, and were contained in another game. But certain people are trying to imply that because said game wasn't as successful, then those features aren't worth considering. Which is completely rubbish. Edited January 14, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudanie Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Those SWG activities falls right into the time sink features category. They are cosmetic features that don't really contribute to the advancement of a character. Right or wrong, these days people play the game to see their character advance. While some of the players may enjoy or even appreciate extracurricular activities, they also don't see it as a core requirement for MMOs. As such, given the fiercely competitive environment within the MMO genre of today, developers are going to place more focus on content and progression as opposed to time sinks. After all, if social interaction and integration into a fictional world is what you seek, there is already a different kind of game for that (Second Life). Personally, I don't find those activities add to the immersion factor of a Star Wars themed MMO. Yes, I will agree that progressing through a ToR class story is similar to being taken along on a ride. However, that to me is really no different from reading a good book. Then there's the fact that I don't really find anything "heroic" about running a moisture farm, selling bantha dung fertilizers or taming a wild womp rat in the Star Wars universe. I certainly can't imagine myself doing it as a Sith. What is missing, (sandboxy features) is that there is no immersion into the game world itself. None. It wouldn't be a crime to have a good story with sandbox elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 MMO's are not what they used to be, the western market has been taken over by FPS-crowd that want instant gratification and don't want to spend any time working for an item. You think it's bad that there are gamers that can have fun based on competitive play instead of, you know, the skinner box? Just see for yourself. All AAA western MMO's basically play the same and are almost all build up in the same style (LotRO/Rift/WoW). So then play korean grinders, nothing wrong with there being multiple types of games out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QQRagequitQQ Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Why does everyone bring WoW into every thread? SWG had nothing to do with WoW. It existed before WoW. WoW was nothing more than an mmo with mass commercial appeal, that brough every housewife, and mini van driving soccer dad, and their kids, into the mmo genre. Now the mmo community is stuck with WoW fanbois that know nothing of successful early mmos and think "omgzzzz looks at alls the shiny colors and sparkly grffixzzzz omgzzzzz this gamez is great i smash your facez with my lite saberz!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 For those who played SWG back in the day. Remember the immersion you felt in the game and with other players? Why did SWTOR go in the opposite direction and remove every fun, sandboxy, interactive feature that so many people loved in SWG? In SWG we had: -Player built housing and stores -Custom NPC merchants players could place anywhere -Pet taming, you could wander around seeking out fab pets and attempt to train them -Resource surveying in maps to find areas to erect harvesting equipment -In cantinas you actually interacted with other players through dancing -Item decay that added a purpose to player crafted equipment Etc, Etc... 0/10 on the troll attempt. 5/10 for the comic use of your name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QQRagequitQQ Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 When SWG was released, MMOs as a whole never got widely popular. For it's time, SWG was sitting at the max amount of subs an MMO could expect to get. You have to remember that when SWG came out, there was no WoW. The MMO genre was not casualized, it wasn't mainstream. Every other MMO had similar sub numbers to SWG. So for it's time it was actually very successful. Then WoW came in and shook up the entire genre, gaining explosive popularity that SoE wanted for SWG, so they tried to emulate the features they thought made WoW popular, and in doing so doomed the game. Don't assume SWG wasn't a successful game just because it was killed off or because WoW was some giant titan, SWG was as successful as any MMO could hope to be during those days. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddeth Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 SWG is the reason I boycott Sony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGlock Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Nothing is immerses you more then spending a few hours grinding dark side points to buy an AT-ST pet then using it to hunt Krayt Dragons as a Twi'lek Teras Kasi master... STAR WARS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutless Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Man i loved swg especially the space combat fun as h*ll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notannos Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Greetings Everyone! As this thread is more focused on a discussion of another game, rather than a discussion about Star Wars™: The Old Republic™. We will be closing this topic. We encourage you to continue discussing Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ and its contents on the forums. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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