*DISAPPOINTED* With Tank Specs. Where am I failing?

[Muckbeast]

My priority here is primarily PvE, so please keep that in mind.

 

I leveled up to 50 pure deception. For the most part I really liked it. Great damage. I would use Khem Val mostly to tank and just go to town.

 

I kept deception at 50 for a couple days to see what it feels like, and get all purple 23 armoring/hilt mods via daily commendations for my armor and weapon. Then I decided to try out the 31/0/10 and 23/0/18 "tank specs."

 

I was really disappointed with both of them. Two problems:

 

1) TOO SQUISHY STILL: While I definitely felt less squishy than my 7/31/3 deception build, it wasn't a tremendous difference.

 

On Ilum, if I fight 1 strong and 2 regulars, I'd end the fight at usually around 50% health. (occasionally around 60-70%). The 31/0/10 build was a little better. I was using Andronikos to make up for my lost DPS (note: I think tankasin + andronokos was more dps than khem + deception assassin).

 

2) RIDICULOUSLY "CLICKY" and HIGH MAINTENANCE: I've main tanked in raids and PvP on countless MMOs from DAoC to WoW with a ton in between. I've never played a tank that required such massive button maintenance and having to stare at a couple tiny little icons instead of the fight.

 

High skill caps are great. But I'd really want that to be related to watching the fight and making decisions - not slavishly watching tiny as heck icons waiting for procs, and having to keep super short duration buffs and debuffs going constantly.

 

• Click dark ward every 12 seconds.
   
  
• Discharge every 15 seconds for -5% accuracy.
   
  
• Wither and then every 15 seconds for -5% damage debuff.
   
  
• Spam Thrash until you see a tiny as hell "energize" buff that is the same purple as your class buff so it doesn't really stand out.
   
  
• Shock once Energize is up.
   
  
• Repeat the above 2 steps three times to get 3 Harness Darkness stacks. Harness Darkness icon is equally tiny and also half purple. This takes FOREVER due to the massive force cost of this combo (82 force per combo I believe).
   
  
• Lots of saber strikes sprinkled throughout because of how much of a force hog it is to keep 3 buffs/debuffs going along with thrash->thrash->shock combo.
   
  
• Make sure you keep those Discharge and Wither debuffs going - this costs more force further slowing down how long it takes to get 3 harness darkness charges.
   
  
• Somehow figure out a way to squeeze in jolt, spike, force pull, taunt, or any other utility powers you need to use.
  

 

About ONE THIRD of your GCDs are used up just to keep your main buff going (dark ward) and your two debuffs (discharge and wither).

 

There is just a ridiculous amount of debuffs to keep up, icons to watch for procs, and it takes way too long to build up enough stacks to do anything.

 

And what does this insane button maintenance and squinty buff/debuff icon staring get you? You are still pretty damn squishy. A single strong + 2 helpers still takes you down to 50-70% health unless you have your heal pet out.

 

***?

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

I did a few heroics and I was tanking like a champ and it was super easy for the healer to keep me at max. So tanking on a team was fine. Though honestly, tanking even as a deception assassin in dark charge stance worked pretty decently.

 

In most MMOs, a cap level character in full tank spec can handle groups of solo-difficulty PvE mob packs with barely a scratch. Maybe 5-10% health lost tops. For me right now, its still 30-50% health lost.

 

Is this working as intended?

 

 

(TL;DR version in reply below...)

[Muckbeast]

TL;DR version:

 

1) Leveled up deception. Seemed to be a fair damage <-> squishiness trade off.

 

2) Tried both tank specs at level 50.

 

3) Way too squishy - especially in solo play or without heal pet.

 

4) Excessive clicks required to keep basic buffs/heals/debuffs going.

 

5) Left little or no time to do anything else or (god forbid) actually watch the environment.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Muckbeast

[Unnoan]

I have macros for my tank. I use about 4-5 buttons total. Cuts down on management significantly

[DarthVenizen]

eh i tanked soa today in dps pvp gear w/tank spec because our MT juggernaut died. (we ended up wiping cuz too many people got stuck in mind traps. I honestly don't notice squishyness for the most part only in aoe situations, even then it's not TERRIBLE. Hardest boss fight for me is HM directive 7 the mentor encounter because they like to burn down dark ward fairly fast)

 

if i would have been in tank gear it would have been a joke.

 

Yes you actually have to pay attention to your class, i actually hardly ever use discharge tho, the 5% accuracy debuff and damage doesn't seem worth it, in an aoe mob situation yea i use it. I sprinkle in saber strike in between but usually don't have a problem.

 

spike? if ur tanking a boss mob will most likely be uninterruptable so u don't even use that

 

Taunt you only use if u lose agro and in a single enemy mob the only time that happens is if u have an incredibly spikey dps in ur group (ala operative or sniper) that aren't spreading out their damage/using an agro dump or u don't have guard up on (tho i've had some ops/snipers take agro from me with guard up, easy fix with a quick taunt tho)

 

Pull use to start off a fight to pick up an add or something

 

Jolt if ur dealing with a competent group (people u know usually or people who actually listen to instruction) you shouldn't have to use that much since EVERYONE gets an interrupt.

 

 

Overall the reason u feel more squishy is because you sacrifice some mitigation for healing capabilities, which honestly IMO is a fine tradeoff.

 

It sounds like assassin tanking just isn't for you TBQH

Edited January 14, 2012 by DarthVenizen

[Kethryweryn]

I don't know how you can end up with 50% life against a strong and two normals. There must be something you're doing wrong.

 

However, I agree with you on the difficulty/reward ratio. The 23/0/18 is a bit more easy to play, but still, the cycles are just annoying.

 

Always looking at the energize, the dark ward, etc, just isn't fun to play.

 

The interface doesn't help as well, and we indeed end up playing the whole game looking at buff and debuff bars. "Oh, this is what this boss looked like."

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Agreed, i spent the entire time watching my force bar and buffs during combat.

I've considered switching specs so that i go for the instant crushing darkness (madness) instead of the 3 charge lighting (darkness) but the lighting also heals me for a good 1000 hit points, so its sort of annoying to give that up just for easier game play :s

[Muckbeast]

I don't know how you can end up with 50% life against a strong and two normals. There must be something you're doing wrong.

 

Well, that's what I am hoping... that I am doing something wrong.

 

I guess I felt like in full tank spec I'd feel a lot tankier.

 

When fighting elites, I do feel tankier. The fight also lasts long enough to build towards a force lightning heal.

 

When fighting non-elites, fights don't last long enough to build to the heal, and in the mean time I just take a TON of damage. It feels like pretty close to the same damage I took as full deception, but now I don't have a tank pet out to take that damage instead.

 

I could play with the heal pet out all the time, but heck... I could do that with my deception build and it would be about the same. So what's the point?

 

I can definitely see how either of these tank builds will be better on FPs, OPs, etc. But it is super disappointing how much damage normal mobs are still able to dish out requiring seethes between almost every battle if I don't use the heal pet.

 

 

However, I agree with you on the difficulty/reward ratio. The 23/0/18 is a bit more easy to play, but still, the cycles are just annoying.

 

Always looking at the energize, the dark ward, etc, just isn't fun to play.

 

The interface doesn't help as well, and we indeed end up playing the whole game looking at buff and debuff bars. "Oh, this is what this boss looked like."

 

Yeah. I hate the idea of player made mods that break every patch or randomly stop getting maintained. But right now staring at the tiny little icons obsessively is just painful and miserable.

[Lowerydro]

Just being thorough since you didn't mention it OP... you did swap out your focus for a shield gen, right?

[Muckbeast]

Just being thorough since you didn't mention it OP... you did swap out your focus for a shield gen, right?

 

Yes, most definitely. As an artificer, I wasn't able to craft myself a purple shield, but I found a nice high level blue one on GTN.

[Putok]

I agree that the amount of bar/icon/resource staring required to play a darkness assassin is obnoxious. I would absolutely kill to have a fully functional UI. When I play my 'sin, I feel like I'm going to get eye strain from having to spend so much time looking at his bars and buffs/debuffs.

 

I think implementing a UI that doesn't suck *** would significantly improve the playability/fun factor of the class. A HUD with power-aura type warnings would be good. It'd be nice to be able to actually watch the game instead of my undersized buff/debuff bars. Hell, even being able to scale the buff/debuff bars up and put them in a more visible location would be nice.

[Ronule]

Being used to having a peripheral playstyle can help. I'm used to watching subbed anime (I even turn on subs for the cinemas in this game), so I have learned to watch where the action is while still keeping an eye on the important little details elsewhere. That being said, something should be done to fix the UI for those who lack this ability, so they can play this class/spec correctly.

 

As for my opinions on it, I love it personally. Like I said, I'm used to being able to work with our hefty management, and I like that there is a lot to do. Another game that shall remain nameless made people lazy in their playstyles, I like a revival of the need of skill and personal evolution. That being said, yeah, Bioware needs to make it easier for people to notice those little buffs and debuffs, or we need some mods added. Just keep practicing, and I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

[Praedoran]

I just wish there weren't so many PURPLE icons and buffs/debuffs. That being said, Energize giving a more apparent visual/audio cue would help a lot.

[Muckbeast]

So I kept at it today some more, using 31/0/10. Again, this is pure PvE and mainly doing the lvl 50 daily missions.

 

With Talos (healer pet) out, I do feel pretty durable. But I could have the healer pet out in my deception build and it would be about the same. Plus I'd be killing faster and wouldn't have to stare at my buff bar for tiny little icon procs.

 

Using either of these tank builds with Andronikos or even Khem Val and I'm pretty squishy with less damage. What's the point?

 

Again, I'm sure these tank builds are better for group heroics, FPs, OPs, etc. But without dual spec, that means its the old MMO curse: Wanna be a tank? Enjoy sucking when you aren't group tanking. That's no fun at all.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Muckbeast

[Rotterdam]

I like they style of Tankassin: keeping up a buff/debuff rotation between shocks. But I do agree that I find myself staring at tiny icons cooldowns more than the action that is happening on screen. I wouldnt mind some larger visual or audio cues considering the majority of our abilities are on timers.

[nilssen]

I have macros for my tank. I use about 4-5 buttons total. Cuts down on management significantly

 

You use macroes? How?

[ZeroKevlar]

I agree that the amount of bar/icon/resource staring required to play a darkness assassin is obnoxious. I would absolutely kill to have a fully functional UI. When I play my 'sin, I feel like I'm going to get eye strain from having to spend so much time looking at his bars and buffs/debuffs.

 

I think implementing a UI that doesn't suck *** would significantly improve the playability/fun factor of the class. A HUD with power-aura type warnings would be good. It'd be nice to be able to actually watch the game instead of my undersized buff/debuff bars. Hell, even being able to scale the buff/debuff bars up and put them in a more visible location would be nice.

 

 

I agree, and I glad that I am not the only one complaining about the GUI.

 

I mean really, my build is all about procs popping out and its a STRAIN on the eyes all the time. Instead of playing i am constantly watching that damn bar and trying to distinguish what is a proc and what is a buff.

 

Combine that with a group, where you have a lot of buffs on from different classes, the fact that icons look all the same, and you will have a headache after an hour or two (I'm not kidding, played for 3hours today and now I have the worst headache due to constant eye focus and strain on that damn bar)

 

An option to turn off icon buffs that last longer than 30min would be awesome (or at least let us move the icons around or change size).

[Czechout]

You use macroes? How?

 

This is what I want to know. I call BS. No one would be complaining if every time you clicked a button it either cast thrash or ward depending on if it's not currently up or not.

[Czechout]

I agree, and I glad that I am not the only one complaining about the GUI.

 

I mean really, my build is all about procs popping out and its a STRAIN on the eyes all the time. Instead of playing i am constantly watching that damn bar and trying to distinguish what is a proc and what is a buff.

 

Combine that with a group, where you have a lot of buffs on from different classes, the fact that icons look all the same, and you will have a headache after an hour or two (I'm not kidding, played for 3hours today and now I have the worst headache due to constant eye focus and strain on that damn bar)

 

An option to turn off icon buffs that last longer than 30min would be awesome (or at least let us move the icons around or change size).

 

I want a new GUI. I'm sorry but everything looks small. I squint to heal in flashpoints on my OP, and when I'm using my assassin to tank, it's a pain in the but to check and see every little buff I have and make sure everything is up. I'd like better health bars, larger force bars, and size scalable debuff/buff icons (like small/med/large)

.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Czechout

[Syclic]

or they could, you know, have anything else indicate if you get an energize proc other than the buff on your bar. in pretty much any other MMO, when an important proc happens theres a distictive sound or animation on the character that differentiates it proc not being procced.

 

like maybe some kind of lightning in the characters hand or on their lightsaber.

 

the point being even with peripheral vision, you still have to watch 3 things before whats going on in the non-UI part of the screen: CDs on bar for wither/discharge/dark shield, force bar for when you should use saber strikes, and buff bar to see if youre shocking or thrashing.

[Vesperr]

You'll get used too it. I, too, leveled as a deception sin to 50 then switched to hybrid pvp tankasin. At first I felt clumsy as I had no expirience as a tankasin but then it smoothed out, you start feeling your cooldowns and recognize those small icons fast enough to have time to look around. The only thing I sometimes forget to watch is my health bar, usually when I'm too busy holding agro on multiply mobs (including ranged ones). But this is easily fixed if you talking with your healer via skype and he tells you to shield wall (blade ward) when he knows that he may not heal you in time. Edited January 15, 2012 by Vesperr

[Khyler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nilssen

You use macroes? How?

 

This is what I want to know. I call BS. No one would be complaining if every time you clicked a button it either cast thrash or ward depending on if it's not currently up or not.

 

 

It's probably what he's doing. Lots of keyboards and mice and input devices on the market today, and almost all of them allow you to make "macroes". So, I would not be surprised if he is using "macroes".

[Kaedea]

Single target=

Shock, wither, discharge, auto attack, thrash, shock and repeat(pref the shocks with the auto crit buff, but keep shocking on CD anyways). While keeping wither up as much as possible same with discharge. only used dark ward when its on two charges or just about to run out.

 

Cant really comment one aoe threat as its pure pants. Srsly wither and discharge while tab targeting shocks and spaming lacerate. (fails at holding aggro needs a buff I reckon)

 

Lv50 sin tank been tankin from 20+

 

Oh And i've noticed while shielding/parrying you cant seem to cast your ablities, bit pants if you ask me!

Edited January 15, 2012 by Kaedea

[Shanerion]

First off, if you are soloing in your tank spec, you should be using Talos not Andronikos or Khem. Of course you are going to be taking damage if you are the one the mobs are focusing. So, be smart, use the healer.

 

Aside from that, I agree. We need powerauras or something, a visual effect that shows us when procs come up.

[Randomness]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nilssen

You use macroes? How?

 

This is what I want to know. I call BS. No one would be complaining if every time you clicked a button it either cast thrash or ward depending on if it's not currently up or not.

 

 

It's probably what he's doing. Lots of keyboards and mice and input devices on the market today, and almost all of them allow you to make "macroes". So, I would not be surprised if he is using "macroes".

 

Probably this, it's not implemented in-game. He could also be doing it with software.

 

Also, how many of these things do you have to maintain in group play?

 

At least on my powertech, I rarely have to use my pure tank skills (at the beginning of a pull I like to pop my defense steroids to play it safe, but they don't last more than 20 seconds for longest). I'm not sure what level of armor values a specced assassin hits though, but you get up to a total of like 180% extra armor I think.

[Kaedea]

Atm i'm on like 44% or something with the armour rating.