Bioware's unshaken confidence is troubling

[Makade]

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me or not. It has to do with people that clearly don't like the game coming to the forums to make a butt of themselves rather than logging off an playing something else.

 

Let me help you out here (I understand reading comprehension isn't everyone's strong suit):

 

1) I like the game a lot. I'm puzzled why you would misconstrue feedback to Bioware as a clear indication that I "don't like the game."

 

2) Even if I didn't like the game (which I do), I'm not sure why writing a respectful, but critical post should somehow relegate me to "butt" status.

 

3) I would be playing the game but I am not at home on my gaming pc. Trust me, when I get home I will be playing rather than posting on the forums.

 

Does that help you to understand?

Edited January 14, 2012 by Makade

[Blackwater]

You're still in your free month. Cancel your sub, then take the game back to the store for a refund claiming false advertising. Then you can move on.

 

Can you do that with digital copies?

[Yemmer]

I'm sick of WoW too and wanted to love this game. But it's missing so many elements that WoW had back in 2004 it blows my mind. How do they expect to compete with WoW by charging $15/month when they can't even meet the standards WoW set back in 04?

 

WoW had a responsive UI working right out the door. It's 7 years later and SwTOR can't even get THAT right. Seriously how was this not a top priority, especially seeing as most MMOs since WoW have failed due to an unresponsive UI. It's completely inexcusable.

 

 

And even bugs aside WoW had tons more polish and depth at release than this game.

Just to name a few, WoW had mobs that wandered around and even talked to eachother as opposed to mobs that just sit there lifelessly in this game. WoW had underwater areas you could swim to, critters walking about and attacking one another, day/night cycles, music, the ability to sit and lie down, a combat log, and live mounts, ALL ON RELEASE. Bioware has cited "technical difficulties" when asked about the potential for bringing live mounts into this game.

 

WoW had infinitely more detailed and imaginative landscapes compared to SwTOR where every planet's ecosystem looks EXACTLY LIKE EARTH. Seriously who plays a space MMO to see oak trees? Where are the liquid nitrogen forests and electric gas clouds? Where is the alien plantlife?? Alien planets are such an opportunity to be creative and oak trees is what they came up with!? WoW's space zones were actually imaginative.

 

 

Can you name me one element of this game that's better or more innovative other than story? Because how does Bioware expect to compete with WoW when their game is inferior to WoW in nearly every facet other than story? This game needed way more development time (or just smarter development), releasing it now is an obvious money-grab quickly trying to capitalize on the unsatisfied mmo-gamer before GW2 comes out.

 

All of the above is fair, But again as i said it's EA, this is normal for games or.. for that matter any project EA has any say in, Their Buisness model is simple: Big title Big rewards, Spend as little as possible and rake up as much as possible, with as little effort as possible and only support it for as long as it's bringing in the huge cash, Then, only support it as much as it needs to be to continue making them some miniscule amount of cash. Kudos to Bioware for the effort they are putting into it, Yes it has a sticky UI, and a multitude of other issues, i have Faith BIOWARE can fix these issues in a relativly short period of time, question is, Can they with EA having any say in it? Not likely. Which is really sad, this game has SO MUCH potential, and for what it is, it's beautifully done, and could only get better if EA would go die in a hole.

[Yemmer]

Can you do that with digital copies?

 

No, you cant, and if i could, i wouldn't anyway, I support bioware, i do not support EA

[Blackwater]

All of the above is fair, But again as i said it's EA, this is normal for games or.. for that matter any project EA has any say in, Their Buisness model is simple: Big title Big rewards, Spend as little as possible and rake up as much as possible, with as little effort as possible and only support it for as long as it's bringing in the huge cash, Then, only support it as much as it needs to be to continue making them some miniscule amount of cash. Kudos to Bioware for the effort they are putting into it, Yes it has a sticky UI, and a multitude of other issues, i have Faith BIOWARE can fix these issues in a relativly short period of time, question is, Can they with EA having any say in it? Not likely. Which is really sad, this game has SO MUCH potential, and for what it is, it's beautifully done, and could only get better if EA would go die in a hole.

 

Don't let Bioware off the hook that easily.

 

Lets remember that the founders of Bioware are now the vice president and executive vice president OF EA.

[Blackwater]

No, you cant, and if i could, i wouldn't anyway, I support bioware, i do not support EA

 

Bioware IS EA, just accept it

[Yemmer]

If you have a monster computer than can smash down the barrier this game has, then yes, this game can look AMAZING. Someone posted a whole thread about what the game looks like with a two thousand dollar computer or some nonsense.

 

IT CAN BE DONE. Is it realistic? No.

 

Mine is about $6500.. Yeah.. i am that much of a geek, No really, i do 3D modeling, textures and animations for a living, So... . With that said yeah, big bad beefy computer, and as far as graphics go.. while they are important (( to me )) i more strongly lean on gameplay expierience, So with that said, the graphics for this particular game are unbelivable for an MMO, they are Awsome, i am a bit surprised they are as good as they are - not because i dont expect Bioware to put in that kind of effort, but because it's very unusual for an MMO to do that, simply because, generally speaking, Not everyone has a computer capable of running MMO's nicely, certainly not with these kind of graphics, and while there are alot of repeating textures, and i think they could definitly use more customisation options for characters, the textures and models used are outstanding.

 

But again Bioware and Wow focus on two very different graphics styles, Personally i LIKE the cartoony ness in Blizzards World of warcraft, it fits VERY well, and it's.. well.. fun.. For this game? not sure it would work so much if at all.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Yemmer

[Yemmer]

Bioware IS EA, just accept it

 

Bioware developers Actually put effort into things, EA does not, Sadly Bioware dosnt have much of a choice in this case but to bend to EA's garbage, or get sued , fired or some other crazy thing, in which case it would be a repete of the failure in SWG.. or worse.. Tribes Ascend.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Yemmer

[Blackwater]

Bioware developers Actually put effort into things, EA does not, Sadly Bioware dosnt have much of a choice in this case but to bend to EA's garbage, or get sued ********

 

REALLY? Do they?

 

Have you been on the official Bioware forums? Every day the developers basically tell their fans to "deal with it" whenever they complain about a feature that only Bioware wants.

 

Bioware devs ARE NOT your friend. I used to be the biggest Bioware fan boy on the planet, and i have a feeling that after you put up with a few more weeks of their BS, you'll follow a similar route

[DeadWoman]

Well duh, of course not. WoW came out in what, 2003-4 and we're in 2012 - they had better get it right seeing the advancement in technology.

 

You know, I keep hearing commentary like this and I thought I would go ahead and give my two cents on it. It's all good if you agree or disagree as they're just my opinions.

 

I have to partially disagree with that line of thinking for a few reasons. The main reason is that while technology does advance it is in no way shape or form perfect. To me, this is proven by the fact that we have regular improvements and advancements in technology. As the old joke says, "by the time you get it out of the box its already obsolete."

You cannot strive for perfection since the tools you're using are not perfect at all. This ultimately means that you can only make due with what you got. However, this alone shouldn't mean that you should strive for second best. It should mean that you should do the best you can.

 

Five years from now the same arguement will be made again. New games that come out in five years will have critics that'll say, "Oh those developers better get it right with how advanced technology is!"

[Yemmer]

REALLY? Do they?

 

Have you been on the official Bioware forums? Every day the developers basically tell their fans to "deal with it" whenever they complain about a feature that only Bioware wants.

 

Bioware devs ARE NOT your friend. I used to be the biggest Bioware fan boy on the planet, and i have a feeling that after you put up with a few more weeks of their BS, you'll follow a similar route

 

*Chuckles* I know they are not my friend, i am well aware their customer service is non-exhistant, But Bioware Vs. EA? No contest, I'll take Bioware, for a long list of reasons any day, any time over EA, they cant even deploy stuff correctly without tripping over their own shoelaces.

[Blackwater]

*Chuckles* I know they are not my friend, i am well aware their customer service is non-exhistant, But Bioware Vs. EA? No contest, I'll take Bioware, for a long list of reasons any day, any time over EA, they cant even deploy stuff correctly without tripping over their own shoelaces.

Yes, but can we at least accept that we don't live in a world where we MUST choose either Bioware or EA? There are PLENTY other developers who are much more talented and respectful toward their fan base.

[Yemmer]

You know, I keep hearing commentary like this and I thought I would go ahead and give my two cents on it. It's all good if you agree or disagree as they're just my opinions.

 

I have to partially disagree with that line of thinking for a few reasons. The main reason is that while technology does advance it is in no way shape or form perfect. To me, this is proven by the fact that we have regular improvements and advancements in technology. As the old joke says, "by the time you get it out of the box its already obsolete."

You cannot strive for perfection since the tools you're using are not perfect at all. This ultimately means that you can only make due with what you got. However, this alone shouldn't mean that you should strive for second best. It should mean that you should do the best you can.

 

Five years from now the same arguement will be made again. New games that come out in five years will have critics that'll say, "Oh those developers better get it right with how advanced technology is!"

 

This, and alot of people simply do not have the funds to upgrade their stuff everytime a new game they want to play comes out, it add's up.. Fast............

 

Let alone the fact, that for an MMO to become widespread enough, you have to let some things go lax so the larger majority of people can play, Im all for sacrificing a bit of graphics power if it means things can be smoothed out and get more people playing.. that works from a buisness perspective as well, and is PARTIALLY why the... . 'Awe Inspiering' World of Warcraft Has done so well, and still continues to do so well, Hell, they could even do what CCP did for awhile with EvE Online, Have two clients, one basic everyone can use, and one with major uptuned graphics for those of us who have powerful computers and desire a bit more.

 

Either way, Overall i am satisfied with the release of SW:ToR, Naw, it's not perfect, but then again, nothing ever really is, for what it is though, i love it.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Yemmer

[Aisar]

*Chuckles* I know they are not my friend, i am well aware their customer service is non-exhistant, But Bioware Vs. EA? No contest, I'll take Bioware, for a long list of reasons any day, any time over EA, they cant even deploy stuff correctly without tripping over their own shoelaces.

 

Since BW is EA I do not understand what you are talking about.

[Armsman]

yeah ...it's not like they didn't just launch a massive game after extensive development to generally rave reviews, with near zero issues at launch.... to large/promising playerbase.

 

 

...nothing to be confident about there.

 

 

it's also GLARINGLY obvious that the game has been out less than a month. if this is your first MMO. maybe you don't know.

 

but the first 1-6mo of a new MMO is basically... paid beta.

 

expect. odd graphics glitches. bugged/missing content. rash class imbalance and totally borked game dynamics/exploits to be found.

 

 

also... GLARINGLY obvious. that the first month or so. any patch that comes down the line. will be to fix something that they can fix. or an emergancy type issue that has to be fixed.

 

also GLARINGLY obvious. users will QQ endlessly. talk as if they know stuff. make up facts, figures, and stats. claim they're unsubbing. worst game ever. server population is abandoning ship. sky is falling et al.

 

 

...so honestly. this is all par for the course.

 

but as always. if you're not having fun. no one is forcing you to play. and if you're not having fun. probably shouldn't get overly upset about it. and just not play

 

 

Generally rave reviews? O'RLY?

 

(Seems a lot of the actual players of the game itself have a different overall view then the magazines courting BioWare's hype machine.)

Edited January 14, 2012 by Armsman

[PaintOnASign]

Generally rave reviews? O'RLY?

 

I'm having a really hard time understanding what you're claiming here. 86 on metacritic is quite good. Are we playing semantics on the word rave? I know you wouldn't hit that reply button, searched for a link, and posted it, just for that. Right? Right??

 

And if you're referring to the players score... have you seen these forums? In fact, the quote you so foolishly quoted addresses this. There will be more QQ than anything. People love to complain, love to voice their be-all end-all opinions as fact, they just can't help themselves when it comes to hitting that New Thread button. So... yeah...

Edited January 14, 2012 by PaintOnASign

[Blackwater]

I'm having a really hard time understanding what you're claiming here. 86 on metacritic is quite good. Are we playing semantics on the word rave? I know you wouldn't hit that reply button, searched for a link, and posted it, just for that. Right? Right??

 

Warhammer online got an 86. I'm JUST sayin'

[Yemmer]

Since BW is EA I do not understand what you are talking about.

 

Mmm You are to some extent correct, but it's the same thing with Blizzard, 'Blizzard' Has a parent company, Bioware also has a parent company, but Bioware company likes to stick their damn fingers and noses into EVERYTHING they do and put in their two cents, Instead of letting bioware work, Think about that for a moment, Bad customer service? A history of games from bioware: some awsome, some almost awsome.. and some that just suck, Now. Look at EA specificly Labled games, where Bioware and smaller companies are not involved: All suck, completely suck Yes, including all their little sports games (( i am not a fan of sports, but leaving that aside..) Horrible graphics most times, and for the few that are not, generally clumsy controls, Fail Physics.. Or no real physics at all.. and just bad animations.. And on that note..bad gameplay on top of it, Zero_Customer support.. At all.. oohh the list goes on..

 

 

No, Bioware is in no way Awsome, But atleast they are not nearly as lame as their parent company.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Yemmer

[Blackwater]

Mmm You are to some extent correct, but it's the same thing with Blizzard, 'Blizzard' Has a parent company, Bioware also has a parent company, but Bioware company likes to stick their damn fingers and noses into EVERYTHING they do and put in their two cents, Instead of letting bioware work, Think about that for a moment, Bad customer service? A history of games from bioware: some awsome, some almost awsome.. and some that just suck, Now. Look at EA specificly Labled games, where Bioware and smaller companies are not involved: All suck, completely suck Yes, including all their little sports games (( i am not a fan of sports, but leaving that aside..) Horrible graphics most times, and for the few that are not, generally clumsy controls, Fail Physics.. Or no real physics at all.. and just bad animations.. And on that note..bad gameplay on top of it, Zero_Customer support.. At all.. oohh the list goes on..

 

 

No, Bioware is in no way Awsome, But atleast they are not nearly as lame as their parent company.

Activision has certainly made reprehensible decisions in the past, but companies like Blizzard understand what their audience wants.

 

CoD didn't change it's formula, Diablo and Starcraft didn't change its formula, but for some reason when it comes to Bioware developing SWTOR and Dragon Age 2, they did the OPPOSITE of what people wanted.

 

NO ONE asked for a WoW clone. NO ONE asked for Bioware to turn the Dragon Age formula on its head. But they did DESPITE numerous warnings from fans.

 

Come on, dude, continuing to support Bioware simply because they're not EA really makes no sense. I understand where it comes from because I was like that, but it still makes no sense

Edited January 14, 2012 by Blackwater

[photometrik]

I don't know about you guys, but I haven't had a problem playing the game. Sure the UI isn't as responsive as it could be, but I'm still tanking and downing World Bosses and running Flashpoints without any "game-breaking" issues. If there happens to be a bug (other than ability delay), it's usually something I can fix by using Ctrl+U to reset the UI.

 

WoW had problems at launch, SWTOR had problems at launch. The problems may be different, but that doesn't mean there wasn't the same amount of problems. The only real difference is that Blizzard has had 7 years to correct their initial mistakes, and they still have problems. Not counting alpha, beta, and early release, Bioware has had about 3 weeks.

Edited January 14, 2012 by photometrik

[Yemmer]

Activision has certainly made reprehensible decisions in the past, but companies like Blizzard understand what their audience wants.

 

CoD didn't change it's formula, Diablo and Starcraft didn't change its formula, but for some reason when it comes to Bioware developing SWTOR and Dragon Age 2, they did the OPPOSITE of what people wanted.

 

NO ONE asked for a WoW clone. NO ONE asked for Bioware to turn the Dragon Age formula on its head. But they did DESPITE numerous warnings from fans.

 

Come on, dude, continuing to support Bioware simply because they're not EA really makes no sense. I understand where it comes from because I was like that, but it still makes no sense

 

And again, as before, you are 110% correct, No one wants a WoW clone, But again take into perspective what Bioware has and can actually accomplish, Versus EA, IF EA was to drop out of the picture entierly, Bioware might actually do some seriously great things, Sadly, with the way finances work, Unless someone can wrench Bioware out of EA's Talons, Not likely to happen.. Ever.. Or EA decides to take the same stance as Blizzards Parent company, and back the hell off and let them do their thing, thats why Wow became so huge, Their parent company LET them work in peace, they LET them work with and for their customers, EA wont do that, they are too busy trying to throw their name around like they are some big **** game company when they arn't.

 

OH GOD WE PWNS BIOWARE!! AND HAS LICENSE TO MAKE STAR WARZ GAME! GOGOGO! YOU HAZ 4 YEARZ TO MAKE AND WE WILL DEPLOY! GOGOGO!

Edited January 14, 2012 by Yemmer

[Allmightyprom]

I think their confidence comes from the fact that they can see the numbers and we cant.

 

If they have sold the estimated "3 million copies" that some sources are saying...at $50-80 a copy, they have allready made well over 100 million. Now if half the people that buy the game sub, thats 1.5m subs, then you can add another 22.5million bucks per month. Well...the numbers may be a bit off, but surely not by much.

 

If i were a game company and made over 100 million in 1 month, then i would be confident as well. Im subbing for 6 months, as are most of my guild of some 100 hundred members.

 

BTW, i admit there are some massive and horrid bugs that need to be fixed. But time is all it takes.

[Daedalin]

Activision has certainly made reprehensible decisions in the past, but companies like Blizzard understand what their audience wants.

 

CoD didn't change it's formula, Diablo and Starcraft didn't change its formula, but for some reason when it comes to Bioware developing SWTOR and Dragon Age 2, they did the OPPOSITE of what people wanted.

 

NO ONE asked for a WoW clone. NO ONE asked for Bioware to turn the Dragon Age formula on its head. But they did DESPITE numerous warnings from fans.

 

Come on, dude, continuing to support Bioware simply because they're not EA really makes no sense. I understand where it comes from because I was like that, but it still makes no sense

 

By not changing formulas, then your pretty much paying 60 bucks for the same thing right?

 

By listing SWTOR (a new game, which had NO sequels) and Dragon Age 2 you make your point correct. However, Mass Effect is the glaring outlier to your comparison.

 

In my opinion, I've only played ONE mmo that could not be considered a WoW clone. And technically since Bioware has Ultima Online in 1997, couldn't we tack on that Blizzard copies their formula?

 

Really Bioware is an awesome company, that has produced many awesome games. (Yes, I enjoyed DA2 as much ad DA1. And thoroughly enjoyed Warhammer. Especially the PvP) EA on the other hand HAS regurgitated ideas that they bought, or developed "brand new." (The Sims anyone?)

 

Just because you have a personal disgust for the way the company may or may not have handled a games evolution, does not make them a bad developer. There is a very large difference between fact vs. opinion.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Daedalin

[Blackwater]

I think their confidence comes from the fact that they can see the numbers and we cant.

 

If they have sold the estimated "3 million copies" that some sources are saying...at $50-80 a copy, they have allready made well over 100 million. Now if half the people that buy the game sub, thats 1.5m subs, then you can add another 22.5million bucks per month. Well...the numbers may be a bit off, but surely not by much.

 

If i were a game company and made over 100 million in 1 month, then i would be confident as well. Im subbing for 6 months, as are most of my guild of some 100 hundred members.

 

BTW, i admit there are some massive and horrid bugs that need to be fixed. But time is all it takes.

 

According to VGchartz, SWTOR in week 1 sold 1.6 million. Week 2 300k. Week 3 40k.

 

Bioware has NOTHING to be confident about when they got kicked off the top 10 in just 3 weeks

[Blackwater]

By not changing formulas, then your pretty much paying 60 bucks for the same thing right?

 

By listing SWTOR (a new game, which had NO sequels) and Dragon Age 2 you make your point correct. However, Mass Effect is the glaring outlier to your comparison.

 

In my opinion, I've only played ONE mmo that could not be considered a WoW clone. And technically since Bioware produced Ultima Online in 1997, couldn't we tack on that Blizzard copies their formula?

 

Really Bioware is an awesome company, that has produced many awesome games. (Yes, I enjoyed DA2 as much ad DA1. And thoroughly enjoyed Warhammer. Especially the PvP) EA on the other hand HAS regurgitated ideas that they bought, or developed "brand new." (The Sims anyone?)

 

Just because you have a personal disgust for the way the company may or may not have handled a games evolution, does not make them a bad developer. There is a very large difference between fact vs. opinion.

I don't remember an outcry for Kinect support and Multiplayer for Mass Effect 3.

 

Bioware is trying to be the next Blizzard and they're failing MISERABLY. They've alienated their hard core fans and hoped to gain new ones. Instead all they've done is lost support.

 

In fact just these recent weeks, EA stock has gone from 25 dollars to 18 dollars

 

Coupled with the fact that EA has pulled pretty much all advertising for this game, it looks like they're losing confidence in SWTOR and the investors has caught wind of it

Edited January 14, 2012 by Blackwater