All Hail Biochem, our new Overlord.

[DoYouReadThis]

Spoiler: This may not be the first thread on this. I am raging pretty hard.

 

 

 

This new buff to Biochem is very interesting. I heard a little birdie tell me it was made in order to make people feel "less" forced to go Biochem.

 

I was Biochem 400, I was planning on going away from it when I had finished my rakata items. Now, I have to stay.

 

The problem is, Rakata biochem items are FAR superior to everything otherwise in the game. There is nothing that compares. Exotech used to compare, but a) the schematics are invalid atm, b) It is being "fixed" to be Biochem only as well.

 

Synthweaving is my crafting of choice, I like the idea of making armor - however, all we get are rakata belts/bracers, and then less-than-t2(columi) equivalent armor. And that means even with augments it's barely better than t2, and frankly, farming for augments is not a viable solution with those i tems as they require heavy raid crafting materials.

 

So Bioware, what you have done, is forcing me and plenty others in the game to go to Biochem.

 

Now, I don't want to be one to only complain - Here is what I personally would suggest as a solution; Add Tier 3 (Rakata) equivalent crafting items that are BoP upon being crafted. Make them require Nightmare crafting materials-drops. Make augments happen more often on these items to give crafters such as Synthweavers a chance to have the +200 stats that biochem otherwise gives.

 

Another solution is to make Exotech go back to being without a biochem requirement, because Exotech, albeit being a tad lower than Rakata, made us non-Biochemists feel like having Biochem was not that necessary, except they're also invalid schematics atm.

 

 

 

 

On a last note, the system was FINE before it was changed. The Biochem items were like any other rakata crafting-items, they were a reward for having been skill level 400, and having farmed all those Hard modes for the items to craft them. Now, Bioware, here is a third solution - return it to its old state, but make the crafting require items from either Hardmode Operations, or simply triple the amount of hardmode flashpoints.

 

Please. This new change is forcing A LOT of people to stay biochem simply for the major boost of having Biochem. It is not a viable system anymore. Because frankly, you can farm items easily to match the crafted gear from professions such as Synthweaving, all it takes is a Normal Operations, a few hardmode Flashpoints, and boom, you're there.

 

A fourth solution could be to make Exotech/Rakata-biochem equivalent raid drops from Hardmode/Nightmare operations, so that people can acquire these stims and adrenals through raiding, not JUST crafting.

[Wallach]

It's so insane that they made the discrepancy between Biochemists and non-Biochemists larger and there are players here dumb enough to go "oh thanks, now I don't have to go Biochem".

 

As a Biochemist since level 1 I just have to laugh. I kept telling people that if they would fix Exotech recipes, you wouldn't have to nerf my crew skill because I'd be able to make them competitive consumables. Guess the joke was on them, because Bioware took that option away and the non-Biochemists seem satisfied with it.

 

I'm pretty amazed at the reaction. I knew the general MMO community was pretty thick, but this is on a new level.

[JaxinRiens]

You guys do realize they have done just that right.

 

The best Stimpack is now the blue ultimate medpac as it can counter dot damage, it is consumable and everyone can use it.

 

The rakata stimpack is now just slightly better. It also shares a cooldown with the pvp heal stim which means no more rakata + pvp heal fight reset. Everyone has access to the pvp stim, everyone has access to the blue stim.

 

Expertise adrenals can no longer stack with a the crit/surge adrenal. thus making atleast part of how the OP operative build did its damage gone.

 

Maybe you should wait to playtest before you cry.

[Jdorty]

It makes no sense how they are changing it. Every crafting skill has a use for alloys, but only biochem and cybertech require you to stay as that profession for their alloy items. Seeing as the grenades every five minutes aren't a tenth as useful as the biochem recipes, this forces everyone to end up as 400 biochem.

 

My guild is strongly encouraging everyone who wants to raid to have the biochem reusables. The only thing this change does is screw the people who learned biochem first. For example, I started biochem and now have my reusables, and was going to switch to synthweaving and get my alloy recipes done with that. Now when the patch comes out I won't be able to use my reusables until I switch BACK to biochem. Whereas my brother started synthweaving and got his items from that, now is switching to biochem and will be able to stay there.

 

It makes ZERO sense to have some crew skills require you stay with them for alloy recipes, and other crew skills you can get these items then drop them. The problem is if they changed them ALL to require their respective skills, then everyone would simply straight up go biochem.

 

The only logical solutions are to either leave everything with no requirements so we can get everything and end on whatever crew skill we want, OR to completely rework the way biochem schematics work.

 

I honestly found it slightly annoying that I would be switching crafting so often, but I figured at least I could get everything and in the end stick with whatever skill I liked best. Now I no longer have any options, and I'm being punished for the order I picked up crew skills.

 

 

TLDR; Please don't make these requirement changes, Bioware.

[Wallach]

You guys do realize they have done just that right.

 

The best Stimpack is now the blue ultimate medpac as it can counter dot damage, it is consumable and everyone can use it.

 

The rakata stimpack is now just slightly better. It also shares a cooldown with the pvp heal stim which means no more rakata + pvp heal fight reset. Everyone has access to the pvp stim, everyone has access to the blue stim.

 

Expertise adrenals can no longer stack with a the crit/surge adrenal. thus making atleast part of how the OP operative build did its damage gone.

 

Maybe you should wait to playtest before you cry.

 

That is super great for PvP that the PvP-specific consumable combinations were nerfed. Unfortunately as far as PvE goes end-game players are now tied to Biochem.

[JaxinRiens]

That is super great for PvP that the PvP-specific consumable combinations were nerfed. Unfortunately as far as PvE goes end-game players are now tied to Biochem.

 

No they are not.

 

http://www.torhead.com/schematic/9Zadcx7/prototype-ultimate-medpac

 

Only the tank arguably needs biochem. and if you are atank and you did not pick up biochem... well your fault.

[Wallach]

No they are not.

 

http://www.torhead.com/schematic/9Zadcx7/prototype-ultimate-medpac

 

Only the tank arguably needs biochem. and if you are atank and you did not pick up biochem... well your fault.

 

The medpacs aren't the big issue. At best the ultimate medpacs are close to competitive; the stims and adrenals available to non-Biochemists are not. They aren't even close, the Rakata adrenals and stims are 25% stronger than the best ones available to non-Biochemists (which are now Hyper-Battle since Energized and Exotech were locked to Biochem).

[Tierce]

No they are not.

 

http://www.torhead.com/schematic/9Zadcx7/prototype-ultimate-medpac

 

Only the tank arguably needs biochem. and if you are atank and you did not pick up biochem... well your fault.

 

You're completely leaving out the value of the reusable Rakata Adrenals and Stims, which did not get nerfed a single iota and are far superior to anything a non Biochem can use. It's not going to be feasible for a non-Biochem to have time to get the materials or credits to pay for them to be able to always have the still inferior blue versions to use.

[JaxinRiens]

PVE in this game is doable even without these thigns though. if it were pve only biochem would never have seen this nerf.

 

this nerf is directly related to PVP.

[Aerodi]

PVE in this game is doable even without these thigns though. if it were pve only biochem would never have seen this nerf.

 

this nerf is directly related to PVP.

 

Agreed. I primarily pvp and have biochem, the adrenal/consumable stacking is getting ridiculous.

 

Truth be told, I wish the adrenals/relic buffs/expertise consumables never existed. Why do we go 49 levels just using our class skills, and then at 50 we add some dumb consumables that inflate the damage everyone can do. Who actually enjoys that?

[DoYouReadThis]

PVE in this game is doable even without these thigns though. if it were pve only biochem would never have seen this nerf.

 

this nerf is directly related to PVP.

 

Please go try Nightmare mode. I want Biochemists to be able to make stims that come close to Rakata stims / adrenals, Exotech used to be it, then not. Now we're tied to Biochem. Or for something that drops from raids at the same level, because what other crafts can make, is easily beaten by drops. As crafts can only make up to t2 equivalents.

Edited January 13, 2012 by DoYouReadThis

[GeorgZoeller]

Agreed. I primarily pvp and have biochem, the adrenal/consumable stacking is getting ridiculous.

 

Truth be told, I wish the adrenals/relic buffs/expertise consumables never existed. Why do we go 49 levels just using our class skills, and then at 50 we add some dumb consumables that inflate the damage everyone can do. Who actually enjoys that?

The stacking situation, correctly identified as problematic by you, is being worked and will be addressed soon as well.

 

-- Georg

[Aghar]

Agreed. I primarily pvp and have biochem, the adrenal/consumable stacking is getting ridiculous.

 

Truth be told, I wish the adrenals/relic buffs/expertise consumables never existed. Why do we go 49 levels just using our class skills, and then at 50 we add some dumb consumables that inflate the damage everyone can do. Who actually enjoys that?

 

People who think blowing a ton of cooldowns to buff their damage equates to skill.

[KaiHeilos]

Truth be told, I wish the adrenals/relic buffs/expertise consumables never existed. Why do we go 49 levels just using our class skills, and then at 50 we add some dumb consumables that inflate the damage everyone can do. Who actually enjoys that?

 

Agreed

[DoYouReadThis]

Agreed. I primarily pvp and have biochem, the adrenal/consumable stacking is getting ridiculous.

 

Truth be told, I wish the adrenals/relic buffs/expertise consumables never existed. Why do we go 49 levels just using our class skills, and then at 50 we add some dumb consumables that inflate the damage everyone can do. Who actually enjoys that?

 

Didn't see this post until now, I fully agree. It's ridiculous. I like them, but I'd rather have them removed.

[JaxinRiens]

Agreed. I primarily pvp and have biochem, the adrenal/consumable stacking is getting ridiculous.

 

Truth be told, I wish the adrenals/relic buffs/expertise consumables never existed. Why do we go 49 levels just using our class skills, and then at 50 we add some dumb consumables that inflate the damage everyone can do. Who actually enjoys that?

 

A vast majority of mmo players care only abotu what they have that makes them different than everyone else.

 

These players usually are pve'rs focused on raid progression.

 

PVPers tend to care more about "how do i prove i am better than everyone else." and do so with the tools allotted to them. The problem lies that in order to satisfy the pve'r there must exist a large gear progression that makes them significantly more powerful over time leading to relics, adrenals, etc to fill that void.

 

PVPers will use them if they are there, but if they are not we will not care.

 

PVe'rs pay the bills. so at the end of the day, whatever makes them happy will be implemented.

[Babyfood]

Agreed. I primarily pvp and have biochem, the adrenal/consumable stacking is getting ridiculous.

 

Truth be told, I wish the adrenals/relic buffs/expertise consumables never existed. Why do we go 49 levels just using our class skills, and then at 50 we add some dumb consumables that inflate the damage everyone can do. Who actually enjoys that?

 

you sir are a gentleman and a scholar, I tip my tophat to you

[Wallach]

PVe'rs pay the bills. so at the end of the day, whatever makes them happy will be implemented.

 

What? This change, according to you, is because of PvPers. It sure as hell was not done for PvE purposes because it's totally awful as far as PvE is concerned.

[JaxinRiens]

Please go try Nightmare mode. I want Biochemists to be able to make stims that come close to Rakata stims / adrenals, Exotech used to be it, then not. Now we're tied to Biochem. Or for something that drops from raids at the same level, because what other crafts can make, is easily beaten by drops. As crafts can only make up to t2 equivalents.

 

WOW you are already geared up in full columnii gear with rakata sprinkled in to tackle nightmare mode already? Could perhaps this perceived need of biochem reusables be due to attempting content designed for much higher geared players?

[JaxinRiens]

What? This change, according to you, is because of PvPers. It sure as hell was not done for PvE purposes because it's totally awful as far as PvE is concerned.

 

Actually if you read zoellers message the act of people gating their members that did not have biochem was a purely pve driven reason for this change. I will enver understand the "we must make raiding a job" mentality some people get in these games. RAID means

Really Anal Idiots Dying.

 

 

edit to add, that when i maid the statement about pvp drivign this change solely i had not read that letter regarding the change. so it seems that while the pvp reason was metric related( they really shouldnt' heal for this much) the pve one was directly related to idiots and control freaks.

Edited January 13, 2012 by JaxinRiens

[Wallach]

Actually if you read zoellers message the act of people gating their members that did not have biochem was a purely pve driven reason for this change. I will enver understand the "we must make raiding a job" mentality some people get in these games. RAID means

Really Anal Idiots Dying.

 

So your post on the previous page was just you talking complete nonsense, then? Fair enough.

 

Which means my point stands - if this change is intended to balance crew skills against PvE, it is achieving the opposite effect it set out to do. They claim they do not want to make Biochem seem required for end-game content, while the changes they are proposing put even more pressure on end-game PvE players to take Biochem so that they can get the most powerful benefits from their crew skill.

 

The issue isn't complex, and players aren't the ones to blame for the situation.

[DoYouReadThis]

WOW you are already geared up in full columnii gear with rakata sprinkled in to tackle nightmare mode already? Could perhaps this perceived need of biochem reusables be due to attempting content designed for much higher geared players?

 

Yes, I am in fact. We are several in the guild that are. Columi is easily attained from doing Hardmode Flashpoints, Rakata is easily gained from Hardmode Operations. So there you have it. We have the gear required, the biochem items are however still a very very very good addition. Also, 16-man is harder than 8-man, 16-man is a main concern.

 

For my personal gear status, I have 6-7 pieces of rakata, and the rest is columi. And I am only one person of our group. Nightmare is still a *****.

Edited January 13, 2012 by DoYouReadThis

[boobaffet]

Spoiler: This may not be the first thread on this. I am raging pretty hard.

 

 

 

This new buff to Biochem is very interesting. I heard a little birdie tell me it was made in order to make people feel "less" forced to go Biochem.

 

I was Biochem 400, I was planning on going away from it when I had finished my rakata items. Now, I have to stay.

 

The problem is, Rakata biochem items are FAR superior to everything otherwise in the game. There is nothing that compares. Exotech used to compare, but a) the schematics are invalid atm, b) It is being "fixed" to be Biochem only as well.

 

Synthweaving is my crafting of choice, I like the idea of making armor - however, all we get are rakata belts/bracers, and then less-than-t2(columi) equivalent armor. And that means even with augments it's barely better than t2, and frankly, farming for augments is not a viable solution with those i tems as they require heavy raid crafting materials.

 

So Bioware, what you have done, is forcing me and plenty others in the game to go to Biochem.

 

Now, I don't want to be one to only complain - Here is what I personally would suggest as a solution; Add Tier 3 (Rakata) equivalent crafting items that are BoP upon being crafted. Make them require Nightmare crafting materials-drops. Make augments happen more often on these items to give crafters such as Synthweavers a chance to have the +200 stats that biochem otherwise gives.

 

Another solution is to make Exotech go back to being without a biochem requirement, because Exotech, albeit being a tad lower than Rakata, made us non-Biochemists feel like having Biochem was not that necessary, except they're also invalid schematics atm.

 

 

 

 

On a last note, the system was FINE before it was changed. The Biochem items were like any other rakata crafting-items, they were a reward for having been skill level 400, and having farmed all those Hard modes for the items to craft them. Now, Bioware, here is a third solution - return it to its old state, but make the crafting require items from either Hardmode Operations, or simply triple the amount of hardmode flashpoints.

 

Please. This new change is forcing A LOT of people to stay biochem simply for the major boost of having Biochem. It is not a viable system anymore. Because frankly, you can farm items easily to match the crafted gear from professions such as Synthweaving, all it takes is a Normal Operations, a few hardmode Flashpoints, and boom, you're there.

 

A fourth solution could be to make Exotech/Rakata-biochem equivalent raid drops from Hardmode/Nightmare operations, so that people can acquire these stims and adrenals through raiding, not JUST crafting.

 

TL;DR

 

I leveled biochem to 400 and now that i have all the reusable BOP i though i could just get an other profession and still get the advantage a biochem would have. But bioware fixed it

[Noth]

TL;DR

 

I leveled biochem to 400 and now that i have all the reusable BOP i though i could just get an other profession and still get the advantage a biochem would have. But bioware fixed it

 

Totally missed the issue. With this change, any other profession could be leveled to where you can get the 400 level BoP items. you can then level biochem and have the best of both worlds. If you leveled biochem first you cannot do that.

[boobaffet]

Totally missed the issue. With this change, any other profession could be leveled to where you can get the 400 level BoP items. you can then level biochem and have the best of both worlds. If you leveled biochem first you cannot do that.

 

what other profession are worth leveling to 50 for the bop? aside cybertech that was fixed too.

 

i cant see anyone in their right mind leveling to 400 for a piece of gear that is easily attainable in an other way, just to quit after and level biochem.