I'm jumping on the Operative rant hear me out..

[Stormbad]

Cloaking is not the problem here. it's the burst dps that happens after uncloaking obviously.

 

So basically my only way to take on an OP as a PT is to use my stealth detection droid after every step in the hopes that I uncloak him. This doesn't seem very feasible in pvP...is this "L2P"? The same goes with the flame sweep which requires a lot of heat just in hopes of uncloaking him. So either flame sweep or stealtjh detection droid after every step. This is "L2P"? Anyone? Anyone?

 

This is situational. An OP is not going to come at you when you are in the middle of a group unless you are low on health, or a lowbie or everyone else is CCd, or everyone else just plain sucks.

 

If you are all alone and away from your team, you should be vigilent against ANY stealthers. Nothing special about OP stealth compated to Sin steath.

 

This is what we mean by Learn2Play. You seriously couldn't spend 5 seconds thinking through this scenario?

[bakedpotter]

Seeing as our opener completely fills the Resolve bar so that other CCs will not work, this is NOT happening. Scrappers and Concealment Ops can vanish, IF you don't DoT them, and damage you, but they cannot restun you or CC you, IT IS NOT HAPPENING. In your pea brain that will find any excuse to compensate for the fact that you just didn't play it right, it may be, "I was stun locked for 30 seconds but the Operative only needed 1 because he 1 shot me OMG ***, Nerf."

 

Here's a tip:

 

GO DUEL SOME OPERATIVES AT 50 AND LEARN HOW TO BEAT THEM.

 

Snares and roots are not prevented from resolve. It should probably be toned down a tiny bit if they dont plan on fixing the buff stacking but they are not super OP like everyone makes them out to be. My healer sorc can pop all the buffs and own low lev noobs and make videos of it too.

[goulet]

oh there's a problem alright, however the problem is its nothing inherent with the class. spec wise the dps boost is less then 5 percent flat for base damage increase to abilities, and 30 percent crit damage bonus to hidden strike and acid blade (attacks from behind).

 

now you take the biochem base buff (cunning for crit and damage)+ temp buff stem (the power stim for level 30 has a greater power increase then the 50 pvp trinket)+relic= ridiculous amounts of damage. the pvp trinket alone provides a roughly 900 damage increase, you throw in the buff stim and its around 2k. So just the damage from the buffs will deal 3400 to 4000 damage on crit. That's in addition to the base abilities damage.

 

As for people who complain about cc. You having one cc break and your opponent having multiple forms of cc isn't specific to operatives or smugglers, its specific to everyone. yes i get positional advantages from it, but if you solve the power problem talked about above you're not dead at the end of it. And cc should get looked at in general. One other note: all my cc does the same thing: prevents you from moving, as opposed to other classes who can knocback/pull/stun/incap from their cc.

[halfhourofpower]

Have you ever lost to an Operative when you caught them unstealthed and they didn't have vanish up?

 

So your logic is the only way to kill an operative is to catch them unstealthed without their vanish?

[Stormbad]

So your logic is the only way to kill an operative is to catch them unstealthed without their vanish?

 

As an Operative, other Operatives/Scoundrels are the easiest kills BY FAR!

 

I can't wait to see a QQ post about Operative/Scoundrel who wants Operative/Scoundrel nerfed because another Operative/Scoundrel crit them for 345345345 dmg in .01 nanosecond.

 

/wrists

Edited January 13, 2012 by Stormbad

[Torothin]

If you're asking if I am spamming my stealth droid or FS after every step when I am alone then no I do not do this. I hardly know anyone that does this. This is a pretty sh*tty way of people to saying deal with the OP burst dps. "Let's do the above mentioned thing sin hopes of uncloaking him."

 

Are you seriously going to say that this is a legit option to deal with it? You just made a statement that re-enforces the fact that we all have a chance to defeat the OP if we uncloak(by luck) him before he does that burst DPS thing. So you have just proved that once that burst dps thing happens it is all over with for me. You don't see a problem with that?

[goulet]

Well this is funny, eat some humble pie.

 

 

 

http://db.darthhater.com/abilities/1054/avoidance_training/

 

All stealth classes get a skill like this that makes their 1 minute cooldown evasion into a DoT cleanser that cures force dots. I've dueled my shadow friend and had him place 2 different force dots on me, both of which get removed when I pop evasion. His evasion skill removes my melee/ranged bleeds, despite the immunity saying its for force and tech.

 

Operatives can't spec to make evasion cure anything, we do however have toxin scan (purge). It can be specced to further remove "mental impairment affects" deep in the healing tree, and evasion can be specced to provide run speed in the same tree. The only additional cc removal from spec is the general tree and your threat reducer removing movement impairment.

[Stormbad]

If you're asking if I am spamming my stealth droid or FS after every step when I am alone then no I do not do this. I hardly know anyone that does this. This is a pretty sh*tty way of people to saying deal with the OP burst dps. "Let's do the above mentioned thing sin hopes of uncloaking him."

 

Are you seriously going to say that this is a legit option to deal with it? You just made a statement that re-enforces the fact that we all have a chance to defeat the OP if we uncloak(by luck) him before he does that burst DPS thing. So you have just proved that once that burst dps thing happens it is all over with for me. You don't see a problem with that?

 

No, I am saying use your brain. Everything is situational. Curious, how many other MMOs have you played that had stealth classes?

[Torothin]

Eve-online for 8 years, WoW for 7 Months. So for the record, you do agree that once the OP uncloaks and does that DPS thing it is over with. Do you agree with this? Edited January 13, 2012 by Torothin

[BDutch]

Operatives can't spec to make evasion cure anything, we do however have toxin scan (purge). It can be specced to further remove "mental impairment affects" deep in the healing tree, and evasion can be specced to provide run speed in the same tree. The only additional cc removal from spec is the general tree and your threat reducer removing movement impairment.

 

I didn't say anything about speccing into something or removing CC. I said we get a skill that allows our evasions to cleanse dots, and I linked you the skill. I don't really care about that other crap you mentioned.

[Stormbad]

Eve-online for 8 years, WoW for 7 Months. So for the record, you do agree that once the OP uncloaks and does that DPS thing it is over with. Do you agree with this?

 

Eve for 8 years and WoW for 7 months. No wonder you are not prepared for stealth classes.

 

No, I do not agree with your statement. Did you even bother read my explanation post? If the Operative has done everything right, popped everything hes got, then yes it is very hard for unskilled/undergeared/underleveled players to do much against their opener.

 

Once again, this is true for ANY class except you can see them coming. THEY WILL ALL BLOW YOU UP AND MAKE YOU QQ.

[Torothin]

You do realize that Eve-Online had ships that could cloak and then uncloak and engage you. I don't remember Rogues having this move either. Yes, I did read your post. Did you read mine? The one where I stated that a team of 4 OP's would blow any team of 3 plus a healer out of the water due to 4 people instantly dying due to that burst DPS?

[Qeuzolt]

The CC break argument is getting old. OPps don't have another cc? Or they can't recloak and use the exact same opener practically right away? I've hit cc break right after the first hit multiple times, used force speed to try and gain range and two things happen - i'm CC'ed right away having moved 1meter to be finished off as my CC break is down obviously, or i gain range, turn around and get smacked again with the stealth opener that again cc's me - vanish seems to be up all the time.

 

Then you guys keep saying keep out of range after the stealth attack and ops can't do anything - well the few times I've lived through the opener and kept range, i'd dent the OP's and he'd break los and heal back to 100% before i can get in los again.

 

This is a blatant lie, after the stealth opener your reslove bar is full, the only thing the operative can do it root or slow you since its not effected by the resolve. There is no other CC until your bar is gone. So either your standing there derping thinking your stunned, or its a bug.

 

Also if the operative is LoSing you and has time to heal to full then it sounds like you simply suck... They might get one heal in time and in no way can that heal them to full, you have a interrupt that can be used on said heal. Not to mention you could be healing yourself as well!

[Gliese]

You do realize that Eve-Online had ships that could cloak and then uncloak and engage you. I don't remember Rogues having this move either. Yes, I did read your post. Did you read mine? The one where I stated that a team of 4 OP's would blow any team of 3 plus a healer out of the water due to 4 people instantly dying due to that burst DPS?

 

If you have good gear you do not instantly die I don't care what class you are, and I am in full Champions gear/weapons.

 

I have seen a few Operatives in full battlemaster gear though so I have no clue how hard they hit would hit someone in Champ gear.

[Torothin]

I never said you instantly die. Your health goes to about 15-20% after the hit and then you proceed to die within the next 4-5 seconds.

[Andarion]

well Operatives/scoundrels are OP but then again so are bounty hunter and troopers

 

 

so its OP class vs OP class crying its seems

 

 

my OP class is getting hurt please buff me that OP class is actualy doing damage to me nerf it.

 

thats pretty much were this is going

 

 

bounty hunters/troopers dps and heals need nerfing and operative's defense and burst dps needs nerfing

 

thats pretty much it

 

There is so much missinformation in this post that I really don't know where to start...

 

First off the OP said he was a POWERTECH, Powertechs (and therefore Vanguards) cannot heal themselves, unless you count the small heal done by adrenaline rush, other than that and setting biochem/pvpconsumables aside they can't heal themselves.

 

Second if you have issues with a Mercenary/Commando killing you, then you are a fool, both commandos and mercs are basically turrets, the main idea around them is to "spam" (its not really that much of spam) Grav Round / Tracer Missile, why? cause it stacks a debuff that reduces your armor rating, so interrupt them, if you have many stacks of the debuff stun them, find a good place for LoS and let it wear off and restart the fight, also both of those classes are TERRIBLE at close range.

 

Now as for Powertechs/Vanguards having issues with Operatives/Scoundrels it is true, our tanking abilities are completely useless against them, what is more ironic, tanking classes tank damage worse than other classes in pvp (sorcerors/sages bubble comes to mind, which is much more useful than our tanking shield generator).

 

However the outlying issue are the Biochem consumables along with the fact that operatives/scoundrels need a slight tonedown in their damage.

[big_aug]

So your logic is the only way to kill an operative is to catch them unstealthed without their vanish?

 

No. I'm saying that if an Operative doesn't get a huge stealth opener and can't vanish to get one, then he has pretty much zero chance of winning against any class with decent gear at lvl 50.

 

We are not going to go toe to toe with any class in the game and win without an opener.

 

It's a L2P issue. I can tell when I go up against people who know what they are doing. THey pop their CC break as soon as I use Hidden Strike. I don't even get backstab off before they are up, turned around, and I'm stunned. They either run away and I can't catch them or they heal up and we go at it. If I have Vanish up, I use it. Many times they instantly pop me back out of stealth wiht a knockback or AoE of some kind.

 

They know what they are doing.

 

Then there are the folks who just lay there and then just stand there after they get up as I beat them down.

 

Again, it needs to be repeated. IT'S NOT ALL 5K+ CRITS ALL DAY LONG EASY MODE. My openers get absorbed completely sometimes. Sometimes I get a few thousand damage in before they get up. People act like we never hit for less than 5K.

 

I'm going to put up a live stream this weekend so you can all see how "overpowered" we are.

[Gliese]

When I go up against geared people and don't use consumables it is very balanced. I will say this for the 100th time. Consumables need to be looked at and mitigation, not the operatives damage. Stop coming to the forums when you are pissed off because you got killed, cool off first then come back when you are rational. Edited January 13, 2012 by Gliese

[Karandor]

The only problem with op/scoundrel damage is consumables (a problem for everyone) and a stupidly high damage + CC opener.

 

Assassins have the same opener but with 1/5th (or less) of the damage but with slightly better tools afterwards. No one complains about assassins and they are very good in PvP.

 

Hopefully a buff-stacking nerf with a slight nerf to opener damage (or a big energy cost increase on the opener would work as well) will be able to fix the problem. A non-buff stacked op can't destroy me as an assassin tank and I often turn it around and beat them. If you're an assassin blow force shroud ASAP and you will nullify some of the burst. Use your CC and you can often turn the tide.

 

I think the ONLY problem with op/scoundrel is the opener. It's too much in 1 button. Another option would be to remove the CC from it and keep the damage.

[big_aug]

The only problem with op/scoundrel damage is consumables (a problem for everyone) and a stupidly high damage + CC opener.

 

Assassins have the same opener but with 1/5th (or less) of the damage but with slightly better tools afterwards. No one complains about assassins and they are very good in PvP.

 

Hopefully a buff-stacking nerf with a slight nerf to opener damage (or a big energy cost increase on the opener would work as well) will be able to fix the problem. A non-buff stacked op can't destroy me as an assassin tank and I often turn it around and beat them. If you're an assassin blow force shroud ASAP and you will nullify some of the burst. Use your CC and you can often turn the tide.

 

I think the ONLY problem with op/scoundrel is the opener. It's too much in 1 button. Another option would be to remove the CC from it and keep the damage.

 

I'd be ok with them removing the Jarring Strike talent and giving us a talent that further increases the damge of hidden strike by 10% per point or something like that.

 

I don't think we are overpowered, but if that shut up the whiners, then so be it.

[E_c_c_e]

So basically I need to find an operative to duel and say "Hey you cloak and I will run around expecting it and then uncloak and do the DPS and let's see if I survive." Not very realistic here....

 

-100 interwebs points for just quoting my post to talk about something completely unrelated and nonsensical...

 

Sure if we get the opener, have buffs stacked and you're lowlvl with no gear you might not have to bother getting up again...but usually you have every possibility of getting away (cc break & enjoy the full resolve bar)....

 

but yeah...lets all just take random posts, write something else and bi*** about OPs and Scoundrels rather than learning how to play...

[KraithFjorn]

I have a difficult time accepting the common argument that Successful operatives are merely well geared + Adrenals/stims/et cetera.

 

Why? Well, for starters, not every Concealment operative I go up against is fully geared with Biochem - Rakata adrenals/stims. In fact, the vast majority aren't.

 

I know when I'm outplayed or outgeared, it's an apparent difference. Getting backstabbed and triple shanked to 15% health while all of my defensive abilities are on cooldown, while being CCed for the duration of the shankfest Operatives have going on isn't because of their gear.

[Fidovski]

Have to jump on the bandwagon here - i'm not the best pvp'r in the world - but op's really need tweking, i have almost 600 expertise and i'm down to 30% with just the opening salvo.

 

If my stun break is down, the fights already over.

 

I play a sentinel.

 

The problem is now a lot of people have figured out that the class is currently OP, you are seeing more and more of them and get hit by two at once, which is instant death.

 

They really need tweaking.

[Sleepnir]

Keep telling yourself that. They are not, any changes will be bugs and minor issues not working as intended.

 

When duelling any class against any class and NOT using consumables, both level 50 and similar gear, the game is so damn balanced that there is not a single class that stands out at all.

 

What an operative has going for him is selecting his fights. That said you must have some poor gear, be low level or really play blind folded. Yes Ops do kill me, but it's not the class I get killed by the most. Yes sometimes I am at half health and an operative kills me where I am defenceless... so what. I could do the same on my bounty hunter - the only difference would be the fact that I don't surprise him from stealth. End result is the same though.

 

People who claim to be continously owned by operatives of same level and gear while they have full health, simply need to learn how to play the game. I know I'm not magic, I wish I were, but I'm just an average guy not blowing a few deaths out of proportions.

 

I have no issues with ops/scoundrels or any other class for that matter. Some players do give me trouble sometimes, but then they may have a better gear and level advantage when I am or my alt or SHOCK, they could be better players than me. I don't suck, but I have met a few snipers I really respect, mainly because I've found the class easy to beat and then I meet a sniper who teach me a lesson... good stuff.

 

Simply put... stop being babies.

 

Simply put, you are absolutely wrong.

[Stormbad]

What argument can't anybody accept?!?

 

It is purely anecdotal experience vs math.

 

It is either "well i got crit for 1001212 and im 9000 power expertise"

 

vs

 

1500 base dmg + 700 from temp power buff + 2200x1.75 (surge buff) = CRIT!!!!