In case you missed it: Combat logs are coming, but only for yourself

[RamataKahn]

This thread is still going? Pathetic.

 

Face it, if they meant for the combat log to be player only they would have specified that.

 

Deal with it baddies.

Edited January 13, 2012 by RamataKahn

[RealAeiouy]

Illogical.

 

So let me get this straight.

 

You're saying he doesn't need a parser? Just figure it out without it and then shun the player/s?

 

How is that going to fix the issue you seem to have?

 

How exactly would you go about finding out who is the weak link if there was one?

 

First thing you do is not think there is one weak link. You assume everyone can do better. You take the actual combat experience and discuss it with the others (see all the social skills in play instead of just mmm bad get one with dps) and improve. People have done it for years. A dps parser is easy mode for people who don't know how to evaluate and strategize based on actually fighting.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

This thread is still going? Pathetic.

 

Face it, if they meant for the combat log to player only they would have specified that.

 

Deal with it baddies.

 

As soon as you deal with they are not in game now and never will be.

[Kunitsukami]

Recount dominates WoW now, you have no choice but to use it. Bad players stare at it (and there are a lot of bad players), good players use it to properly tweak themselves but don't really care about it because they don't need to. PvP Arena players almost never use it in the Arena itself because it detracts from what's going on and looking for what they have to react to.

 

I can't see any argument against making logs or meters personal to the person only or making it so they only show at the end of the fight. Combat logs I don't care at all who see's them or when because people should know who stood in the fire. I change my views when it comes to meters though because the fights will be about the meters rather than tactics.

 

Me and my friend had a fantastic time 2-manning the final boss in Athiss with our companions today and we loved trying to figure out how it needed to be done and what was happening when without something just telling us. And we couldn't say "oh we don't have the deeps" etc because we didn't know, we just had to try until we did it. We felt great after doing it and talked through what was happening when after... was good fun and that's how it used to be in other MMO's. Top level end game content that was horrifically difficult was still fun, and the fights hadn't become the same old rehash tactic set up because of the meters and crap the game is now built around.

[VicSix]

 

 

 

You all want logs to JUDGE other players, not utilize them for what you claim, helping yourselfs!

 

How bad did these people have to be to have been so traumatized by the wow community. If I didn't stand in fire and bosses died I never saw people really talk or compare dps meters unless you were running up on enrage timers. I ran with many different guilds on raids and never had an issue for not having a mod. I ran bongo/dominos and power auras for the visual. Maybe I just got really lucky with all the people on Dark Iron.

[Hairless]

First thing you do is not think there is one weak link. You assume everyone can do better. You take the actual combat experience and discuss it with the others (see all the social skills in play instead of just mmm bad get one with dps) and improve. People have done it for years. A dps parser is easy mode for people who don't know how to evaluate and strategize based on actually fighting.

 

Spoken like someone who has never raided.

[RamataKahn]

As soon as you deal with they are not in game now and never will be.

 

Are you for real? They already said it will be in the game, that's what this thread is about. Reading comprehension much???

[RamataKahn]

Recount dominates WoW now, you have no choice but to use it.

 

No one has to use it at all actually.

[guided_by_voices]

Spoken like someone who has never raided.

 

sounds more like problem solver to me.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

Are you for real? They already said it will be in the game, that's what this thread is about. Reading comprehension much???

 

No they said..their will be a PERSONAL combat log. I don't get how that means it will be a "group log" learn to read much? So that mean's you won't know mine even in group so you need to kinda be quiet.

[Kunitsukami]

No one has to use it at all actually.

 

You have immediately lost all ability to comment.

 

Edit: Well I say that but it's more that you shouldn't be listened to because you obviously don't know your back end from your elbow.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Kunitsukami

[Hy_C]

First thing you do is not think there is one weak link. You assume everyone can do better. You take the actual combat experience and discuss it with the others (see all the social skills in play instead of just mmm bad get one with dps) and improve. People have done it for years. A dps parser is easy mode for people who don't know how to evaluate and strategize based on actually fighting.

 

I'm glad you enjoy carrying dead weight in your raid group, really more power to you.

 

If things stay the way they are looking, good raiding guilds will require you to upload your logs to another site similar to WoL for performance checks.

[RamataKahn]

No they said..their will be a PERSONAL combat log. I don't get how that means it will be a "group log" learn to read much? So that mean's you won't know mine even in group so you need to kinda be quiet.

 

Except he doesn't say "personal"anywhere at all about it.

 

Again, reading comprehension will help you, plz try and use it.

[Keihryon]

EQ1 may have had a parser. (it did, I know this and was only briefly in a high end guild. Too much work, not enough fun) But, not everybody had easy access/knowledge on how to use them. And most didn't bother with them. Only that 1% High end mindset did, and on my server, they rarely socialized with anyone outside of their highend mindset. (Cept for HoSS, those were some cool people).

 

But the problem with addons, is any idiot can download them.

 

Case study: I am in a 5 man (the new one where you fight beside Illidan) Now during the course of the fight, the rogue in my group dies. I lived. But, he continues to send me tells about how bad *I* am? That fight is so easy to survive it isn't even funny. But, since I didn't meet his perceived notion of what my class should be able to put out in terms of DPS, I was bad. My DPS was lower because I was...you know...positioning, and playing smart. Not trying to loltop some meter.

*BTW, I was peaking at 21k dps, without that instance buff on a fury warrior that wasn't cookie cutter spec'd but what I thought was important, no weapon enchants due to costs for them* - yes I used recount to track "my" performance. I couldn't tell you what the other groupmates were doing, because i didn't care.

 

Parsers, limited to raid functionality, and personal dps meters, I can understand the need for. But, no on the rest, the amount of abuse that stems from these outweigh your pro-argument.

[RamataKahn]

You have immediately lost all ability to comment.

 

Edit: Well I say that but it's more that you shouldn't be listened to because you obviously don't know your back end from your elbow.

 

Haha ok what ever.

 

Why exactly do you have to use it in WoW again?

[Chosenxeno]

Learn to play is a better one. If you can't figure out what is going on you are not good enough to beat the content. The bad players are the ones that can't modify and adjust strategies without a parser. It is easy mode.

 

Pretending like better players can't do it or are guessing does not make it true. Play the game not the dps log. Sometimes I think bad players want dps logs because they choose overpowered classes so they appear to know what they are doing when in reality it is just them playing an op spec poorly that gets them by. With the parsing they can say look I am higher than that good player who is playing a more difficult class.

 

Bads need parsers to do content.

 

Yea the people using addons and parsers clearly have a greater air of superiority and they are Elitist.(Think before you rage type. You might expose yourself) Your entire post Reeks of Elitism at first, but then you expose your insecurities "With the parsing they can say look I am higher than that good player who is playing a more difficult class." A good Dps player will do the optimum DPS regardless of class. Every class is not expected to be the top DPS every fight. They could be doing Utilitarian things. You are expected to do optimum DPS for your Role that's it. You don't need to have a 1 by your name "or else!".

 

Another deluded clueless person that thinks everyone only cares about who's topping. Meters are more than just Output. They Track,Dispels, Interupts ect. Now they can Track down who's not putting out the DPS based on Character Roles and Attacking Type. If Melee should be doing the most damage and 2 warriors are putting out the optimum dps for their spec(not topping Optimum) but warrior 3 is behind the range that's a problem. A lot of us would like t remove Warrior 3. You might wanna spend all night in a Raid, but I like bathing and i'm not afraid that the big yellow ball in the sky is gonna eat me. I also have a job, family and friends. The less people wasting my time the better.

 

PS don't you ever accuse me of doing something as lame as DPSing lol

 

I'm a healer and I always will be. Grats. You are the 1st one to hurt my feelings:( I wonder if I can report you? Calling me a dpser was extremely hurtful.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[Lethality]

There's no reason to hide combat performance in a game based on rules-based combat where numbers are the only way to truly judge performance. There should be a public combat log/stream that we can at least capture.

[Cranberries]

Most people in this thread are *********** clueless so let me fill you in.

 

Let's take the current ONLY impossible fight in the game: Soa, the Infernal One, on nightmare mode. This thread details why is it impossible: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=147413

 

Note where you have to meet utterly IMPOSSIBLE DPS requirements over a set period of time to even come close to killing the boss. This is why universal combat logs are necessary. If I'm playing and achieving 2.2k DPS over 20 seconds (it's actually impossible at the moment, but I digress) and everyone else it apart from 1 person who is doing 1.1k DPS I have a bloody right to know who that complete *********** moron is so I can either tell him to DPS properly, or get the **** out of my progression - aiming for World Firsts - guild.

 

Let's take a completely doable fight, Commander Jorland in Boarding Party:

The engineer has no aggro table and 90,000 hp~

The medic has an aggro table and 90,000 hp~

Commander Jorland has 120,000 hp~

 

The enrage is 150 seconds:

400,000 / 2666.66

2666.66 / 3 (2 dps + 1 tank) = 888.88

 

Now this is a tightly tuned enrage, which also requires interrupts on the Medic (else he gets healed) and exceptional healing. If you wipe to the enrage there are multiple reasons why:

1) Interrupts on medic weren't occuring, meaning he was taking longer to kill

2) DPS wasn't high enough

3) Healing didn't allow DPS to properly rotate their max DPS rotation

4) People weren't focusing properly

5) Someone died - out of their own stupidity/healing issue

 

That's 5 reasons why a boss didn't die due to a strict enrage. A global combat log, thus something designed like Skada (Skada) would help identify the reason. Skada has these different modes:

- Damage done,

- DPS, Threat,

- Enemy damage done,

- Enemy damage taken,

- Healing, Overhealing,

- Total healing,

- Absorbs estimated,

- Damage taken, Dispels,

- Mana regen,

- Debuff uptimes,

- Activity

 

There is only 1 reason why people wouldn't want something like Skada in this game: they don't want their DPS to be recognised. If someone said to me "your DPS will be too low" I'd say to them, as a good player, "take me and let me wipe the floor with you." I know I'm good, I know a combat log would show I'm good, thus I'm not afraid of a combat log being added into the game.

[Florial]

Sounds like a great compromise. Give us a tool that we can use to tweak our rotations, etc. I can do some research on what is "acceptable" DPS for my class and improve from there (I've always been one to use tools like rocount to improve). And not have some ******* in my groups spamming the meters after every fight. Perfection!! Good job BioWare.

[Hairless]

Wow guys, full combat logging is in the game already. They used it during beta. It's only not enabled yet because BW wants to see the numbers first. We are going to have it soon. They already put in raiding content of progressive difficulty. They aren't gonna be retarded and just give us "private combat log". It's just not happening.

 

All you baddies are getting is an in-game tool that tracks only your stats and combat data. Now lazy baddies don't even have to go download an addon to realize that their DPS is horrible compared to the average playerbase. That's all.

[Hy_C]

Most people in this thread are *********** clueless so let me fill you in.

 

Let's take the current ONLY impossible fight in the game: Soa, the Infernal One, on nightmare mode. This thread details why is it impossible: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=147413

 

Note where you have to meet utterly IMPOSSIBLE DPS requirements over a set period of time to even come close to killing the boss. This is why universal combat logs are necessary. If I'm playing and achieving 2.2k DPS over 20 seconds (it's actually impossible at the moment, but I digress) and everyone else it apart from 1 person who is doing 1.1k DPS I have a bloody right to know who that complete *********** moron is so I can either tell him to DPS properly, or get the **** out of my progression - aiming for World Firsts - guild.

 

Let's take a completely doable fight, Commander Jorland in Boarding Party:

The engineer has no aggro table and 90,000 hp~

The medic has an aggro table and 90,000 hp~

Commander Jorland has 120,000 hp~

 

The enrage is 150 seconds:

400,000 / 2666.66

2666.66 / 3 (2 dps + 1 tank) = 888.88

 

Now this is a tightly tuned enrage, which also requires interrupts on the Medic (else he gets healed) and exceptional healing. If you wipe to the enrage there are multiple reasons why:

1) Interrupts on medic weren't occuring, meaning he was taking longer to kill

2) DPS wasn't high enough

3) Healing didn't allow DPS to properly rotate their max DPS rotation

4) People weren't focusing properly

5) Someone died - out of their own stupidity/healing issue

 

That's 5 reasons why a boss didn't die due to a strict enrage. A global combat log, thus something designed like Skada (Skada) would help identify the reason. Skada has these different modes:

- Damage done,

- DPS, Threat,

- Enemy damage done,

- Enemy damage taken,

- Healing, Overhealing,

- Total healing,

- Absorbs estimated,

- Damage taken, Dispels,

- Mana regen,

- Debuff uptimes,

- Activity

 

There is only 1 reason why people wouldn't want something like Skada in this game: they don't want their DPS to be recognised. If someone said to me "your DPS will be too low" I'd say to them, as a good player, "take me and let me wipe the floor with you." I know I'm good, I know a combat log would show I'm good, thus I'm not afraid of a combat log being added into the game.

 

Going to requote this on the new page because it is a very good post on why the parsers need to be global.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Hy_C

[guided_by_voices]

Most people in this thread are *********** clueless so let me fill you in.

 

Let's take the current ONLY impossible fight in the game: Soa, the Infernal One, on nightmare mode. This thread details why is it impossible: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=147413

 

Note where you have to meet utterly IMPOSSIBLE DPS requirements over a set period of time to even come close to killing the boss. This is why universal combat logs are necessary. If I'm playing and achieving 2.2k DPS over 20 seconds (it's actually impossible at the moment, but I digress) and everyone else it apart from 1 person who is doing 1.1k DPS I have a bloody right to know who that complete *********** moron is so I can either tell him to DPS properly, or get the **** out of my progression - aiming for World Firsts - guild.

 

Let's take a completely doable fight, Commander Jorland in Boarding Party:

The engineer has no aggro table and 90,000 hp~

The medic has an aggro table and 90,000 hp~

Commander Jorland has 120,000 hp~

 

The enrage is 150 seconds:

400,000 / 2666.66

2666.66 / 3 (2 dps + 1 tank) = 888.88

 

Now this is a tightly tuned enrage, which also requires interrupts on the Medic (else he gets healed) and exceptional healing. If you wipe to the enrage there are multiple reasons why:

1) Interrupts on medic weren't occuring, meaning he was taking longer to kill

2) DPS wasn't high enough

3) Healing didn't allow DPS to properly rotate their max DPS rotation

4) People weren't focusing properly

5) Someone died - out of their own stupidity/healing issue

 

That's 5 reasons why a boss didn't die due to a strict enrage. A global combat log, thus something designed like Skada (Skada) would help identify the reason. Skada has these different modes:

- Damage done,

- DPS, Threat,

- Enemy damage done,

- Enemy damage taken,

- Healing, Overhealing,

- Total healing,

- Absorbs estimated,

- Damage taken, Dispels,

- Mana regen,

- Debuff uptimes,

- Activity

 

There is only 1 reason why people wouldn't want something like Skada in this game: they don't want their DPS to be recognised. If someone said to me "your DPS will be too low" I'd say to them, as a good player, "take me and let me wipe the floor with you." I know I'm good, I know a combat log would show I'm good, thus I'm not afraid of a combat log being added into the game.

 

with or without meters wouldn't the best players get the worlds first anyway? it may take a little bit longer but the best would still be the best wouldn't they?

[Chosenxeno]

Most people in this thread are *********** clueless so let me fill you in.

 

Let's take the current ONLY impossible fight in the game: Soa, the Infernal One, on nightmare mode. This thread details why is it impossible: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=147413

 

Note where you have to meet utterly IMPOSSIBLE DPS requirements over a set period of time to even come close to killing the boss. This is why universal combat logs are necessary. If I'm playing and achieving 2.2k DPS over 20 seconds (it's actually impossible at the moment, but I digress) and everyone else it apart from 1 person who is doing 1.1k DPS I have a bloody right to know who that complete *********** moron is so I can either tell him to DPS properly, or get the **** out of my progression - aiming for World Firsts - guild.

 

Let's take a completely doable fight, Commander Jorland in Boarding Party:

The engineer has no aggro table and 90,000 hp~

The medic has an aggro table and 90,000 hp~

Commander Jorland has 120,000 hp~

 

The enrage is 150 seconds:

400,000 / 2666.66

2666.66 / 3 (2 dps + 1 tank) = 888.88

 

Now this is a tightly tuned enrage, which also requires interrupts on the Medic (else he gets healed) and exceptional healing. If you wipe to the enrage there are multiple reasons why:

1) Interrupts on medic weren't occuring, meaning he was taking longer to kill

2) DPS wasn't high enough

3) Healing didn't allow DPS to properly rotate their max DPS rotation

4) People weren't focusing properly

5) Someone died - out of their own stupidity/healing issue

 

That's 5 reasons why a boss didn't die due to a strict enrage. A global combat log, thus something designed like Skada (Skada) would help identify the reason. Skada has these different modes:

- Damage done,

- DPS, Threat,

- Enemy damage done,

- Enemy damage taken,

- Healing, Overhealing,

- Total healing,

- Absorbs estimated,

- Damage taken, Dispels,

- Mana regen,

- Debuff uptimes,

- Activity

 

There is only 1 reason why people wouldn't want something like Skada in this game: they don't want their DPS to be recognised. If someone said to me "your DPS will be too low" I'd say to them, as a good player, "take me and let me wipe the floor with you." I know I'm good, I know a combat log would show I'm good, thus I'm not afraid of a combat log being added into the game.

 

None of this matters to the "Anti Parser" people. They have never raided. It's obvious they haven't or evidence like this wouldn't be neccesary. They want this game stuck in a "Guess who sucks" Raiding model.

 

They are excited that they could potentially have a meter that shows only your output. "Oh you do great DPS? Compared to whom exactly? Personal DPS is as bad as not knowing.

[Hy_C]

with or without meters wouldn't the best players get the worlds first anyway? it may take a little bit longer but the best would still be the best wouldn't they?

 

Because the best in the world never need to look for new members for their raid?

[Hairless]

Just imagine the drama and hassle it would cause in an average raiding guild if people didn't have the numbers to back up their claims.