ferroz Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Lol. Wow did not invent that style of talent system. Its pretty generic and can be found in many different games. Wow was not the first MMO or game with talent trees just fyi.[Citation needed] If they're so many, list at least 3 games with these same type of talent trees that predate wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelitt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I see your tree and raise you this: (Another poster created this, not me) http://i.imgur.com/kET1L.jpg Thats just hilarious. I know the fanboys will try to defend everything, but come on guys is it really to much to ask for one single new ability that isn't a copy when buying a new game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seisaan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Every. Single. One. Of all my trees (sorcerer) If u want me to list one of them np, ill just do the one i am currently specced in, Lighting tree: Tier 1: - convection (2,4,6% dmg increase on select spells) Dont think i need to elaborate further? as cookie cutter copy as can be. -Reserves: Increases max force Old arcane mage +healer talent. -Electric induction: Force cost decrease of spells. Every healer had those in wow. Tier 2: - Lightning Spire: increases range of some spells. Copy of stoneage caster range talents wow used to have. - Exsanguinate: Increases dot duration 3/6 sec. SW: pain talent from wow. - Subversion: Pushback reduction + slightly increased regen. Every caster spec has those in wow. - Lightning barrier: Increased absorb of shield. Disc priest talent copy. Tier 3: - Supression: cooldown reduction on CC. Copy of shaman Hex talent. - Chain lightning. Yeah no further explanation needed. - Lightning barrage: Force lightning ticks 2 as fats when procced. 1:1 copy of the old mage talent missile barrage: - Electric bindings: Root on aoe. This is improved cone of cold, added on a slightly different aoe though. Tier 4: - Lightning storm: Chance on nuke to make chainlightning instant. Ele shammy talent. - Lightning effusion: Crits reduce force cost of next two spells. This would be clearcasting -Backlash: Shield CCs nearby enemys when ending. - This is Shattered barrier. frostmage talent. Tier 5: -Forked Lightning: Chance on nuke to make a second nuke for diminished dmg. 1:1 copy of lightning overload. - Conduction: Forked lightning increase dmg by 1% stacks 3 times. 1:1 copy of ret pala talent. - Polarity shift: 20% haste for 10 sec. This is frostmage talent icy veins. Tier 6: - reverberating force: Increases crit dmg by 10/20/30/40/50% Ancient wow talent all casters sued to have and was scrapped. Tier 7: - Thundering blast: Nuke that auto crits with dot on mob. This would be a direct copy of Lava burst of eleshammys. There you got it, without exeption all talents are direct knockoffs. I could make the same list with my two other talent trees. The OP has a valid concern and all he gets is blind fanboys hating and telling that all mmo's are equal talent tree wise. Is anyone seriously gonna argue that it is to much to expect even just 1(!) new spell when buying an mmo? Why would anyone downplay this and act as if it is fine so no changes are made by devs? Please tell me i must know lol. And I could make the same argument for...just about any game that uses a talent tree system. Ironic part is, most of the talents you pointed out as "copies" are essential to the type of character they are tied to. Casters having a talent that reduces knockback. Why WOULDNT they have this? Do you want casters to be able to fire off spells? Damage increase talents? In any game that uses a talent tree. Its pretty standard. Having talents that reduce cost, casting time, cooldown, etc, again, pretty generic to any game with a talent tree system. They didn't copy from WoW what WoW didnt already copy. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laserfloyd Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I know I'm low level (20 on most of my characters) but I don't 'feel' like a certain spec. I hated the fact that in WOW when I wanted to be frost Mage I had to go really deep into the tree to feel like a frost mage. Same with warriors fury etc. I want to feel like a scrapper or sawbones etc. Like I said I don't 'feel' like one early on. Again it was something that irked me WOW and after so long they changed it in Cataclysm and I liked it. Some people didn't but it was a nice change. Some of the early talents see, useless for scoundrel > scrapper and Shadow > infiltration. Or am I missing something? Um, all MMOs I've played have some degree of a talent tree/system. 1000000x better than SW:G ... ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jswizzle Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My Sage is nothing like the cleric from EQ, or the priest/mage from WOW. Sure there are some similarities, but in no way do I feel like I'm playing a copy of something. You are seeing what you want to see, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcemuffin Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 As much as I like TOR, Blizz has it right (or rather, will have it right) on this one with the upcoming Pandaria system. I suspect BioWare will adopt a new talent system at some point, and it'll be interesting to see if it's a Pandaria copy or something new altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelitt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) And I could make the same argument for...just about any game that uses a talent tree system. Ironic part is, most of the talents you pointed out as "copies" are essential to the type of character they are tied to. Casters having a talent that reduces knockback. Why WOULDNT they have this? Do you want casters to be able to fire off spells? Damage increase talents? In any game that uses a talent tree. Its pretty standard. Having talents that reduce cost, casting time, cooldown, etc, again, pretty generic to any game with a talent tree system. They didn't copy from WoW what WoW didnt already copy. Get over it. EVER SINGLE TALENT AND ABILITY..... You are saying it is ok that a new mmo you purchase does not havy ANY innovation whatsoever? Not one new spell? Call me naive but i believe it is not impossible to create atleast a miniscule amount of new talents/abilitys. maybe if they took some of the budget from Voice overs and used on creativ talent design. Voicovers will not hold players for years, interesting talents and smooth combat will. Edited January 12, 2012 by Anelitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggthnx Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Voicovers will not hold players for years, interesting talents and smooth combat will. Agreed, 1000%. Blade and Soul, TERA Online all coming out with new combat systems and such to get the player more engaged in combat. It is a shame Bioware did not spend a lot of development time with the combat system and skills, and it clearly shows. However I do hope they are back to the drawing table in trying to refine and polish this combat system, and as few others have said add some new skills that differ from...yes WoW... Edited January 12, 2012 by ggthnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandtrooper Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Ok, A little history lesson may help everyone chill the heck out. The basic concept of talent trees has been around in computer MMORPGs and RPGs for ages. Variants of this can be found in games made by BioWare dating back to at least Baldur's Gate (1998). In the Baldur's Gate series you could choose a class, multiclass, choose spells and specialize in different types of magic (conjuration, necromancy, sorcery, etc.). One of the early versions even allowed you to play online with friends. So ... meh. Heck, I played D & D and other pen and paper RPGs decades ago and there were basic talent trees in those games. In point of fact, pretty much any feature you have in current computer MMORPGs and RPGs was done to some extent or other on pen and paper RPGs dating back to the early 1970s including team play, overlapping skills and the basic idea of character classes of Thief, Wizard, Fighter. You could even craft in D & D. So ... meh. WoW didn't show up until 2004. So ... meh. In fact, tons of stuff seen in online computer RPG games now was around in non-online computer RPG games for a long time, since the internet simply wasn't there or was far too slow to run graphics heavy multiplayer games effectively. So ... meh. The fact is that there has been a convergence in features in this game genre as more and more content is released. This happens with every technology sooner or later. All cars are basically the same now. All smartphones are basically the same now. All operating systems offer the same or very similar features now. This even happening in the latest versions of AD & D. So ... meh. Sand Edited January 12, 2012 by Sandtrooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadCapper Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 As much as I like TOR, Blizz has it right (or rather, will have it right) on this one with the upcoming Pandaria system. I suspect BioWare will adopt a new talent system at some point, and it'll be interesting to see if it's a Pandaria copy or something new altogether. You mean the dumbed down couple of talent points, seriously? That is just a really bad system IMO. You are actually the first person i've seen say you think it will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_Stalker Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 In fact they aren't a blatant copy, since wow requires X amount of points before you can invest in a 2nd tree. SWTOR does not have this limitation. Yes, this is because SWTOR copied the 2004 version of WOW, that is how it used to work then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadyugemos Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I know right?! WoW was the first GAME, let alone MMO to use talent trees and so uber better that SWTOR just HAD to rip off the talent trees! I'm lol'n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunabaguna Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Why did my thread about pixels get deleted but this one still exists? Its the same argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_Stalker Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [Citation needed] If they're so many, list at least 3 games with these same type of talent trees that predate wow. Diablo2 had 3 talent trees. Oh Wait, it was done by Blizzard too! Shame on Blizzard copying ... Blizzard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yotes Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Time's up. Let's do this LEEEEEEERRROOOOYYYYYYYYYYYY JENKINS!! *munches chicken* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelitt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 You mean the dumbed down couple of talent points, seriously? That is just a really bad system IMO. You are actually the first person i've seen say you think it will be good. So you enjoy 1/2/3% crit increase talents that are so boring yet not a choice because baseline the only wothwile talents? Why would you defend stuff like that?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selaik Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 WoW was not the first to use talent trees in fact is not the first to do anything , OP believe it or not there was other games before WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadCapper Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Yes, this is because SWTOR copied the 2004 version of WOW, that is how it used to work then. Didn't read any of the thread huH? So WoW was out in 1985 then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadCapper Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) So you enjoy 1/2/3% crit increase talents that are so boring yet not a choice because baseline the only wothwile talents? Why would you defend stuff like that?... I'm fine with the talent system as is and think it's far superior to once coming out in WoW. The thing you don't seem to understand like most posters around here, I'm not defending anything, i simply have a different opinion than you do. Is it really that hard to understand this? Are you threatened because i have a different opinion? Is that why you think I'm 'defending' something and not simply stating my opinion? Edited January 12, 2012 by TheHeadCapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightspeed Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 LOL....love the WOW kiddies. WOW was not first in anything, well it was the first game that dumbed everything down enough that anyone could play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelitt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 WoW was not the first to use talent trees in fact is not the first to do anything , OP believe it or not there was other games before WoW. Why do you avoid the topic? Noone argues that wow was the first one to use the talent tree system. The issue here is that every single ability and talent of classes (mine atleast) is a direct 1:1 copy. Not a single new ability. Isnt that a little weak? come on. Here a list i made of my current talent tree so you can see its true: Lightning tree: Tier 1: - convection (2,4,6% dmg increase on select spells) Dont think i need to elaborate further? as cookie cutter copy as can be. -Reserves: Increases max force Old arcane mage +healer talent. -Electric induction: Force cost decrease of spells. Every healer had those in wow. Tier 2: - Lightning Spire: increases range of some spells. Copy of stoneage caster range talents wow used to have. - Exsanguinate: Increases dot duration 3/6 sec. SW:pain talent from wow. - Subversion: Pushback reduction + slightly increased regen. Every caster spec has those in wow. - Lightning barrier: Increased absorb of shield. Disc priest talent copy. Tier 3: - Supression: cooldown reduction on CC. Copy of shaman Hex talent. - Chain lightning. Yeah no further explanation needed. - Lightning barrage: Force lightning ticks 2 as fats when procced. 1:1 copy of the old mage talent missile barrage: - Electric bindings: Root on aoe. This is improved cone of cold, added on a slightly different aoe though. Tier 4: - Lightning storm: Chance on nuke to make chainlightning instant. Ele shammy talent. - Lightning effusion: Crits reduce force cost of next two spells. This would be clearcasting -Backlash: Shield CCs nearby enemys when ending. - This is Shattered barrier. frostmage talent. Tier 5: -Forked Lightning: Chance on nuke to make a second nuke for diminished dmg. 1:1 copy of lightning overload. - Conduction: Forked lightning increase dmg by 1% stacks 3 times. 1:1 copy of ret pala talent. - Polarity shift: 20% haste for 10 sec. This is frostmage talent icy veins. Tier 6: - reverberating force: Increases crit dmg by 10/20/30/40/50% Ancient wow talent all casters sued to have and was scrapped. Tier 7: - Thundering blast: Nuke that auto crits with dot on mob. This would be a direct copy of Lava burst of eleshammys. Again you say: " Wow didnt invent talent tree system" The issue here is: " Every single spell/talent is a 1:1 copy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApesAmongUs Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 WoW was not the first to use talent trees in fact is not the first to do anything , OP believe it or not there was other games before WoW. Honda is not the first car company to make a vehicle with wheels and an engine, but if you make a car with the same body shape, same interior designs and same color choices as one of their cars, you would still be copying them. It's not copying a general idea that is a problem buy copying down to every little detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordgracy Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 In fact they aren't a blatant copy, since wow requires X amount of points before you can invest in a 2nd tree. SWTOR does not have this limitation. thats because they copied the OLD wow trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imtrick Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I know I'm low level (20 on most of my characters) but I don't 'feel' like a certain spec. I hated the fact that in WOW when I wanted to be frost Mage I had to go really deep into the tree to feel like a frost mage. Same with warriors fury etc. I want to feel like a scrapper or sawbones etc. Like I said I don't 'feel' like one early on. Again it was something that irked me WOW and after so long they changed it in Cataclysm and I liked it. Some people didn't but it was a nice change. Some of the early talents see, useless for scoundrel > scrapper and Shadow > infiltration. Or am I missing something? What's any of this got to do with the subject of your post? Or was that just trolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelitt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm fine with the talent system as is and think it's far superior to once coming out in WoW. The thing you don't seem to understand like most posters around here, I'm not defending anything, i simply have a different opinion than you do. Is it really that hard to understand this? Are you threatened because i have a different opinion? Is that why you think I'm 'defending' something and not simply stating my opinion? You argue in favor of a very weak system, yes i would call that defending it. Apart from that you are ignoring the issue. Is it ok that every single ability my sorcerer has is a 1:1 copy? No exeption, not one new talent/skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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