Denying Jedi Knight Sentinels are broken Issue #1

[Coramac]

Disaggree. I play many games, and that thinking is a trap. Well, in this game design anyway. As long as you have the trinity, and raid timers. it just can't work that way. As, if we DID do more dps, then THEY would be useless, as everyone min-max's the highest dps.

A more freeform raiding design that allowed scaling by # of attendance, and didnt have enrages, you can do that.

 

Agree. There's a lot of things they could have done to give us more to bring to the table other than marginally increased DPS.

 

so here, you are right in there is a problem. we are the low end. Our dps may or may not even BE on par. And frankly, in the MANY MANY melee unfriendly pve fights, its cearly NOT on par. And the same can be said in pvp, with many anti melee moves, such as all the roots, and knockbacks. but even in a free-for-all, I'm not so sure we scale at the same rate as some others.

We clearly do not scale with burst as well as others do in pvp. The need to build focus, and DW itself. We can not front end 3k, 4k hits in 2s like others. (even with full focus)

 

I'm still pretty convinced that, raid mechanics aside, Watchman is probably at or close to the top of DPS. I also hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm pretty sure Watchman's burst is stronger than Focus burst. Granted, it's got less "control" over that burst but it's a powerhouse.

 

Medal system is a problem. Hybrids, not only are more powerfull innately. but since you get medals for doing those things, in each catagory. they ALSO get more medals, and thusly gain more valor and gear FASTER. Easliy 50-100% faster.

 

Agree. I'm surprised they didn't see this one coming.

 

Reduce the dependance on defensive cooldowns. we are absolute trash with them down. That is terrible design. The cooldowns should give us an advantage. not bring us from unplayable to base line. If you are popping guarded by the force in EVERY fight, something is wrong with the design. And unless you have a pocket healer, and are over-geared, you probably are, aren't you?

 

Depends on the class, but on most even equally geared people, I don't have to use Guarded by the Force.

 

Dispatch. sick of using dispatch vs pvp targets and having them not die. It needs to hit harder. Two problems here. 1. it doesn't gain anything from damage talents. no crit, no surge, etc. So either give it a baseline +50% surge/crit chance, make it 100% armor pen. And possibly add a +damage based on focus effect, (like execute)

 

I'm pretty sure this actually works with the Force talents in Focus, not that I disagree with the point here. It's a terrible execute.

[MBirkhofer]

nah, dispatch is a "physical" attack. not force.

[Poe_]

That's what is called actually "having the wisdom to look beyond your own situation" in case, well, since we all know you have no idea what you're talking about.

I can't even figure out what you are trying to say, the sentence structure above is so confusing to me, I am unsure of whether you even know what you are trying to say.

 

The funny thing is, you used 'wisdom to look beyond your own situation' in your own post as a sign of maturity, although you are calling for easymode, whining about your class in a game that's been out a few months, and calling other people immature.

 

Ironic. You sir, have failed.

[Mavick]

I can't even figure out what you are trying to say, the sentence structure above is so confusing to me, I am unsure of whether you even know what you are trying to say.

 

The funny thing is, you used 'wisdom to look beyond your own situation' in your own post as a sign of maturity, although you are calling for easymode, whining about your class in a game that's been out a few months, and calling other people immature.

 

Ironic. You sir, have failed.

 

I think you have me confused. I'm not the one whining about the class in this or any other threads lol. The quotation marks also mark it as me quoting someone else's words, which isn't too hard to figure out if you read the rest of the thread.

[Csdabest]

I already proved my point with stats. Numbers. Percentages. You have proved your point with "No it your wrong. Just wrong" So yeah. Done arguing with you on that point.

 

Reached lvl 50. Lightsabers pretty balanced both orange. Modded pretty decent. Didnt use specialy gear or anythng. Just merely modded with mods to evenly distribute out stats. Im going to give out my highest number for Pri, and Sec.

 

608(Pri) 207(Sec)

 

608/207= Around 34%.(.3404602) yeah that type of number.

 

Now this is with Duel Mastery. Even outlightsabers and mods. Same mod. same lightsaber.(found one that was usable by both hands) Now DO YOU REALLY WANT TO SAY. The offhand does 66% compared to Mainhand. My numbers personally after spending a good amount of creds to buy out even out lightsabers and mods to further prove my point. When I find out how to Do screen prints from the game(Not letting me) I will further prove my point on how my math is correct. Then after that It will be up to you all wether to believe it or not if the offhand lightsaber is underpowered and if it needs a balanced.

 

Today I was killed multiple times in 4 secs by a IA Op out of stealth. The damage that was delt. (In the exact order) 4k, 3k, 2k, 3k. I was Dead. 4 hitss. Consectively each time. Now. Thats higher than what I can crit half the time. So far the highest i have crit was for around 2455 Now I dont have the best gear. But I have seen vids of the best gear and they have crit for around 2899 around that. Damn near 3 k. So i feel like i will be there once I get all my good gear. Now back to the IA OP. Same lvl Prob had better gear to me. But i died to him the same exact way each time with him pumping out those numbers. This SAME game. No healer and with a sorry team of low lvs I did around 160k playing watchmen Spec for the 1st time. Didnt know what I was doing didnt know what the best rotation was.(But hey I knew what I was doing with Combat and was doing around 100k. But course my gear wasnt all that good back then seeing as i didnt max out)

 

Call it skill. or what ever. But thing is. Even Come near 3k You have to work you way to it instead of pressing a mear button. Im just want for us to actually do some decent damage working and building focus up to that point and I feel it would start with increasing offhand damage. And I flirted with other classes and watched my friends play And checked their characters. Offhand equipment is listed as Bonus. Not sec. So if devs wanted offhand to be considered as abonus and not a weapon it would be listed as a bonus,

[Mavick]

When you get higher level offhands, with an equivalent level mainhand, it gets up around 40%, and that was my entire f'ing point, with no needs for the walls of text you post. Offhands don't "ALWAYS" only do 30% of the damage of the mainhand as you were trying to say.

 

The other problem I have with what you were posting was making the statement "average gear". What the hell is average gear anyway? Who determines that? It's stupid, cause average to me is champion/pve-equivalent level gear, as it's not hard to get. And with that level gear your supposed calculations aren't even close. Hell you were making the statements before you even hit 50 apparently. Just asinine to try to pass off as you're doing all this math and you hadn't even hit the endgame/level cap til just now.

[Csdabest]

lvl 50 now. Still around 30% ish. I never said always. I said always roughly around 30%. That was after I average MULTIPLE people numbers who are also sentinels numbers. And by Average gear It was by Green Gear. Gear that could not be modded to give more of a consistent number since mods are different in weapons and makes it even harder to balance.

[Coramac]

Now this is with Duel Mastery. Even outlightsabers and mods. Same mod. same lightsaber.(found one that was usable by both hands) Now DO YOU REALLY WANT TO SAY. The offhand does 66% compared to Mainhand. My numbers personally after spending a good amount of creds to buy out even out lightsabers and mods to further prove my point. When I find out how to Do screen prints from the game(Not letting me) I will further prove my point on how my math is correct. Then after that It will be up to you all wether to believe it or not if the offhand lightsaber is underpowered and if it needs a balanced.

 

Where do you get this 66% compared to mainhand? Listed mainhand damage combines mainhand weapon with bonus damage. Offhand does not get bonus damage. This is known. This is intended. This is balanced.

 

It is not underpowered. You just do not understand the mechanics involved- or maybe you do. You don't post as if English is a first language, which is fine. You are hard to understand sometimes though.

 

Today I was killed multiple times in 4 secs by a IA Op out of stealth. The damage that was delt. (In the exact order) 4k, 3k, 2k, 3k. I was Dead. 4 hitss. Consectively each time. Now. Thats higher than what I can crit half the time. So far the highest i have crit was for around 2455 Now I dont have the best gear. But I have seen vids of the best gear and they have crit for around 2899 around that. Damn near 3 k. So i feel like i will be there once I get all my good gear. Now back to the IA OP. Same lvl Prob had better gear to me. But i died to him the same exact way each time with him pumping out those numbers. This SAME game. No healer and with a sorry team of low lvs I did around 160k playing watchmen Spec for the 1st time. Didnt know what I was doing didnt know what the best rotation was.(But hey I knew what I was doing with Combat and was doing around 100k. But course my gear wasnt all that good back then seeing as i didnt max out)

 

Both Focus and Watchman crit harder than Combat. Combat has the lowest damage crits of all the specs.

 

Call it skill. or what ever. But thing is. Even Come near 3k You have to work you way to it instead of pressing a mear button. Im just want for us to actually do some decent damage working and building focus up to that point and I feel it would start with increasing offhand damage. And I flirted with other classes and watched my friends play And checked their characters. Offhand equipment is listed as Bonus. Not sec. So if devs wanted offhand to be considered as abonus and not a weapon it would be listed as a bonus,

 

Offhand is not a bonus. Offhand is an additional weapon at a damage penatly and accuracy penalty that does not double dip into bonus damage.

[AnotherAgnostic]

but also to your response, i guess i could agree a bit more to your statement, it is very low but it wont change, its all aboutthe rotations not the builds, thats why i love this game, everyone is approaching this game in the WoW perspective and thats exactly why everyone is saying alot of the classes are broken. alot of stuff is broken but its also meant to be approached differently.

 

SWTOR isnt WoW. its Kotor on steroids.....

 

 

now can i please play as a keldorian? or lol as an ithorian.....

 

^Expansion make it happen

 

Okay smarty pants... you seem to know something we all don't... how do we play the sentinel and still survive? How does anything you said help in any way? WoW perspective... really... then what is the proper SWTOR perspective.

[der_mawel]

of all dps classes (which means all but guardian and venguard) the sentinesl has the lowest dps if all classes are specced optimally and are operated more or less effeiciently.

 

well sentinels only have 3 different dps trees which means that the class should be able to compete with any dd in pvp and pve. now try to outdps a scoundrel a gunslinger a commando or a sage. ene a shadow ha a greater dps output when dps specced.

 

sentinel is just not melee dps incarnate at all. as far as i understand it was designed to be dps since there are no other possibilities to play the class. dpswise it should be at least in line with the gunslinger.

 

besides, combat has the lowest crits indeed but it also has ataru procs which do allright dmg. in combat u have a 50% chance that an attack deals (with champion gear) 300-400 extra dmg and up to 700 when it crits the interface just fails to show all the numbers.

 

once again i'd like to piont at the fact that strike deals only little less dmg that slash or blade rush. (998-1101 by strike and 1202-1400 with slash, even less with blade rush). its not like out strike is op, compareable abilities of commando and gunslinger have the same dmg.

Edited February 1, 2012 by der_mawel

[-Arcane-]

/facepalm

 

^ This

 

 

 

Geared sentinel out dps every other class with 100% uptime on the boss.

 

 

You complain hard about the offhand damage, lol who cares when we are destroying everything anyway.

 

 

My stats using selfbuffs only:

 

768-952 mainhand

199-299 offhand

100% accuracy

24.9% crit

85.5% surge

 

The thing is Sentinel scales very will with gear, so go get some gear then lol at the insane dps.

Edited February 1, 2012 by -Arcane-

[RamzaBehoulve]

Both Focus and Watchman crit harder than Combat. Combat has the lowest damage crits of all the specs.

 

Unless your Merciless Slash is hitting a light armor wearer, it's almost never going to hit harder than Combat Blade Storm. Unless you meant how often.

[Obi-Rev]

I do understand where you are coming from OP, I do agree combat does need to be looked at. lvl 50 sent full champ gear and valor 54. I've danced between combat and watchman, I love the combat tree but im lucky if i break 200k damage in a WZ, now as watchman, the most I've done 44006k damage in voidstar....its not really my play style but it gets the job done until they fix combat.

[Soarlozer]

To me the biggest problem with combat is the bugs associated with it.

 

I have never tested the hitbox bug, but I've run into multiple problems with masterstrike and force leap.

Force leap i will get stuck sometimes when i have the extra 1 sec immobolize, and master strike will keep me in the animation even if the target is no where near me. Which is a problem because master strike doesn't build focus but only reason why I put it in is to fill a focus spender slot or put out dps for a execute (w/e its called)

Not to mention that the zen .5 cd increase doesn't visually show if it works to begin with.

[ztee]

Unless your Merciless Slash is hitting a light armor wearer, it's almost never going to hit harder than Combat Blade Storm. Unless you meant how often.

 

He said crit - and yeh, it does ... regardless