I give up on sentinel. Bioware PLEASE review the class.

[andrew_b_gross]

Yeah, me and every other player that has an issue with sentinel are just "bad players". Great logic.

 

What's wrong with that logic? If those of us who know for a fact that we're not great players manage to make it from 1-50 having a lot of fun and only very occassionally getting stuck on a boss (always to discover that the reason we were stuck was because we were doing something wrong, not because we didn't have the tools to succeed), what other conclusion are we supposed to come to? Bad players do exist, and they do complain loudly on forums from time to time.

 

Turn the question around on you: I'm in my mid 40s, have a stressful job that demands long hours, and didn't play in beta. I'm such a newb that I gave up on spaceship battles after completing the first couple of them because I couldn't come close to winning them, and only discovered last night via a forum post that you can use the WASD keys to move your spaceship while you're flying. Yet on my level 50 Sentinel I had problems with exactly 2 fights in the entire game, Darth Angral and the Sand Crab thing on Tatooine, and in both cases was able to figure out what I was doing wrong by trial and error and felt a sense of accomplishment (and became a better player) when I defeated them. What's your explanation for my experience?

[Vember]

Yeah, me and every other player that has an issue with sentinel are just "bad players". Great logic.

 

Dunno what to tell you man. I haven't died to a class quest boss yet. I took on Valis at 27 with Kira, whom I never use and has the crap gear she started with, and beat him first try. What did I do differently that so many of you can't do? I have no idea. I do well in pvp, I do exceptionally well in pve.

 

So it comes down to this...am I some kind of gaming god that has a matrix like view into the SWToR Sentinel?

Or are you just a bad player?

[unevenjunk]

nice post andrew,

I concur with everything you said, being a father and having a full time job it is difficult to find the time to play but when i do, and kill enemies like that sand demon. It is a big sense of self-accomplishment and you do learn a lot from situations like that and become a better player for it...

 

 

 

 

(damn sand demon).....lol

[Vember]

For Lastredemption, I'll tell you how I play my sentinel. By the mid 20's you should have a full set of orange gear for yourself and your companion (weapons, head, chest, legs feet and hands). I am a cybertech, so I have crit blue mods in every piece of moddable gear for both myself and my companion (T7) which, at level, are always better than the ones you can get for commendations on the planet you're leveling at, as well as crit blue earpieces, and I get my implants from the light/dark vendor. Now, for Valis, I beat him with a completely undergeared companion only because she was required for the quest...to be honest, I figured I'd die and then summon T7 and beat him, but smart use of interrupts and laying down a full zen burn on him finished the job.

 

This class isn't hard to play, and I really barely use more hotkeys on any given fight than I do on my Shadow.

 

Sentinel is a gear dependent class, but its not hard to gear up. A lot of people forego cybertech for biochem, which I think is a mistake...I'll usually have 60-100 more raw str/end than people my level just because I'm cybertech, and I'm fully modded out as soon as I level, versus slowly gathering commmendations and gearing up with lesser quality mods and armoring, etc. I use commendations for hilts and enhancements, that's about it.

[urborror]

<Here's my other piece of advice - level! I was consistently three to five levels ahead of the content I was facing and I never did anything special.>

 

You are aware out-leveling the content is not required for any other classes? Bosses and mobs are approachable and beatable at -3 levels, often.

 

I notice these "Jedi Knight is gimpy" topics pull in numerous diverse people agreeing with some eloquence.

 

Then there are several disaggreers whose names I recognize (i.e., Vember, no offense--) Which means the "dissent" faction is...well, there's a word for that.

 

Let's take Vember: he just said he fought Valis at 27, which means he runs about 3 levels above the content--if you're good with the class (which many posters, incuding myself, might not be) and run +3 levels, I imagine things might be easier. You're not a matrix God, but maybe you're a better player than most and +3 levels, which the class virtually *requires*, which is the problem.

[Talorra]

So the only viable way to progress is with a pocket healer.

 

I have used Doc a whopping two times, and one was to solo a higher level champion for the lols. He made it so easy I was bored.

 

Kira has been my questing choice since I picked her up, with T7 where I had to use him.

 

 

So no, it's not the only way.

[LastRedemption]

What's wrong with that logic? If those of us who know for a fact that we're not great players manage to make it from 1-50 having a lot of fun and only very occassionally getting stuck on a boss (always to discover that the reason we were stuck was because we were doing something wrong, not because we didn't have the tools to succeed), what other conclusion are we supposed to come to? Bad players do exist, and they do complain loudly on forums from time to time.

 

Turn the question around on you: I'm in my mid 40s, have a stressful job that demands long hours, and didn't play in beta. I'm such a newb that I gave up on spaceship battles after completing the first couple of them because I couldn't come close to winning them, and only discovered last night via a forum post that you can use the WASD keys to move your spaceship while you're flying. Yet on my level 50 Sentinel I had problems with exactly 2 fights in the entire game, Darth Angral and the Sand Crab thing on Tatooine, and in both cases was able to figure out what I was doing wrong by trial and error and felt a sense of accomplishment (and became a better player) when I defeated them. What's your explanation for my experience?

 

My best guess is you weren't attempting to do quests at your level and you were always a few levels ahead of the quests you were working on.

 

As far as the spaceship battles, just make sure your ship has some upgrades (especially increased fire rate and armor). I just use the mouse on them and haven't had any problems (aside from hitting a rock here and there).

 

You know what you need to do? Go roll a trooper, bounty hunter, imperial agent -- or anything for that matter that is not a Jedi Knight. Play that class for a little and you will see the issue I'm talking about with sentinel. The class is underpowered IN COMPARISON to other classes.

 

Yeah, we can GET BY as sentinels. At the same time, other classes have higher damage and survivability. That's the problem.

 

I was on alderaan at level 30 and getting my *** handed to me. I watched a level 26 trooper come in and DEMOLISH a group of enemies without losing a significant amount of health. He didn't even need to heal himself.

 

Every group I had tried that on, I'd escape with maybe 25% health. That was with watchman 'heals'.

 

Seriously, it is insulting that you and others seem to think that everyone on the forum that has an issue with sentinel class (for whatever reason) is just a failure at playing this game. What is more likely is there are balance issues with sentinel class damage and survivability and most people get around that by having the best possible gear at all levels OR being a few levels above their target quests. Neither is an issue or requirement for any other class in the game.

[Vember]

<Here's my other piece of advice - level! I was consistently three to five levels ahead of the content I was facing and I never did anything special.>

 

You are aware out-leveling the content is not required for any other classes? Bosses and mobs are approachable and beatable at -3 levels, often.

 

I notice these "Jedi Knight is gimpy" topics pull in numerous diverse people agreeing with some eloquence.

 

Then there are several disaggreers whose names I recognize (i.e., Vember, no offense--) Which means the "dissent" faction is...well, there's a word for that.

 

Let's take Vember: he just said he fought Valis at 27, which means he runs about 3 levels above the content--if you're good with the class (which many posters, incuding myself, might not be) and run +3 levels, I imagine things might be easier. You're not a matrix God, but maybe you're a better player than most and +3 levels, which the class virtually *requires*, which is the problem.

 

It's just smart, imo. I did the same thing on my Shadow, and will do the same thing on the next class I play. I also solo'd a level 27 champion elite at 26 on my sentinel without any trouble at all. I solo +2 and +4 because I save them for last on any given planet. I can't speak for any other classes as I haven't played them, but as I said, with a mixture of pvp, space combat, and side quests, I'm always ahead of the content.

 

Look back at other mmos you've played. Green quests are generally always easier to complete than white and yellow quests. Common sense?

[Talorra]

And I've gone into a zone, at level, and seen a higher level trooper get demolished by mobs that I handled with ease. This can go around and around all day Edited January 12, 2012 by Talorra

[LastRedemption]

And I've gone into a zone, at level, and seen a higher level trooper get demolished by mobs that I handled with ease. This can go around and around all day

 

Yet our class forum is filled with threads like mine..

[RamzaBehoulve]

I, for one, don't give a crap about some nobody who decided the class was not good enough for him.

 

Go ahead and play something else, noone is stopping you. On the other hand, I would be grateful if you'd stop bothering us, the players actually enjoying the class, with your inifinite babling how it is broken.

 

it's ok, we get it, you don't like it, so move on.

[LastRedemption]

I, for one, don't give a crap about some nobody who decided the class was not good enough for him.

 

Go ahead and play something else, noone is stopping you. On the other hand, I would be grateful if you'd stop bothering us, the players actually enjoying the class, with your inifinite babling how it is broken.

 

it's ok, we get it, you don't like it, so move on.

 

Then **** of the thread and stop reading it? I would be grateful if you tools would stop trolling the threads of every player with a legitimate issue regarding this class.

 

 

Is the class unplayable? NO.

 

Is there a problem in comparison to every other class? YES.

[Talorra]

Yet our class forum is filled with threads like mine..

 

Ours is not the only one. If we factor in everyone wanting to be a dual saber wielding Jedi because it's practically the coolest thing ever, I think we're about on par for complaints with the other classes.

 

I can't even begin to speculate on why you and many others are having problems and I am not. If we could run some quests together and I could see your gear and how you are using the class, then maybe. And trust me, I'd love to help. I really enjoy this AC and hate to see people write it off so quickly.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Then **** of the thread and stop reading it? I would be grateful if you tools would stop trolling the threads of every player with a legitimate issue regarding this class.

 

 

Is the class unplayable? NO.

 

Is there a problem in comparison to every other class? YES.

 

No, there is not. You are making a new thread about something that's been discussed to death already and you could have joined those threads. But no, instead you want the fame, you want some of us to pity you. Well, guess what. I won't.

 

The class is fine, the UI delay, the clumsiness of the game as a whole is not. Did you even bother reading the devs answer to your kind of complaints?

 

They basically told everyone to L2P/wait for UI fix and they'd just look at the FINAL story quest and our companion. Eventually, maybe, probably not actually, tweak 1-2 skills so some people don't need to only look at their skill bar while playing.

 

They are not going to buff anything, nor make it easier anytime soon.

Edited January 12, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Anelyn]

I decided to try Jedi Knight again after my horrendously squishy experiences in beta. All I saw in the forums were the QQing about how ridiculous it was to do some of the boss fights on the knights. Having done gaming in just about every game to date that has hit the internet, I am a sucker for the underdog and trying to make it work. But even I have to say what the hell. I think the title for the thread is a misnomer. I think the class is workable. In normal instances it can burn things down quite nicely. It has a nice combination of skills to make it fit into the role that it seems to be suited for whether it be dps or tank. But the dreaded storyline bosses are the problem.

 

Let's take Valis as a case study. A level 24 boss and when I faced him on my knight I was 26. I was fully kitted out and ready to walk into the trap I knew was waiting for me. Now if it were me I would have come in there with a crew like havoc squad to back me up since i knew it was going to be a trap. But apparently the storyline characters are not so smart. So it's only me and Kira. Right off the bat he casts an energy blast. On 5 different classes in the game so far I have gotten used to interrupting this nonsense so let me get right on to kicking you in the jewels. Ooops. Nope can't do that cause within two seconds of him casting his big screw you blast he does a knockback that blows me way farther than force jump can get me back to him. Then I get nailed for 3000 of my 4800 health. What? Really? So you used two abilities..., at the same time while you were in the middle of one...., and it didn't interrupt the first ability. Cool. This guy is top of the line really cause if I am in the middle of an ability like master strike for instance and I kick..., it stops my master strike in mid run to use kick. But apparently the knight bosses get to use two and three abilities at the same time. The second time he pulled that nonsense I positioned myself to be blown back into his ship so I can just keep attacking from there. Again a tactic I have used on other boss fights on other classes. Nope not so much on that count. I was on the top of his ship that time.

 

Valis is one of the first of the knight retardo bosses, and he is one of the easy ones apparently. Consular, smuggler, trooper, bounty hunter, and the imp spy dude class had some interesting fights, but nothing where the guys were using 15 abilities at the same time. The fact that that boss is one of the easier retardo bosses for Knight makes me agree that the class has to be reviewed a bit. I don't think it is necessarily the class per say, but the story interaction portion has to be tweeked cause needing exacting and very specific positionings and rotations and insanely devilish tricks and cheese and what not to move the story along should not be happening.

 

I had absolutely no problems on any of the class story bosses, all of them done with kira. I never got hit for so much - would have remembered, are you using your cooldowns proactive or reactive? Do you jump in first and try to take all the heat at start or send companion then join the fight and build up / setup your rotation / burst w/e? Once you get force camo you can easily trade aggro with your companion.

 

I never stay much in melee range of a caster / ranged elite / boss. I always bounch back to get a new leap off - both to interrupt if I know he will cast something bad and my kick is on CD, as well to generate focus and proc Felling Blow (am playing as Focus). Always use cauterize before force stasis - adds a nice bit of dmg during the channel, as you regen the focus spent on it while channeling so you can always do something when channel is over.

 

With melee type of bosses I always land a snare after finishing my 1st rotation, then get range and leap back unload again, move out again.

 

There is no such thing as being a master strategist to beat your story class bosses. I had same thing on my sniper / Assassin on empire side. Forums full of peeps complaining how impossible is. I don't run around in epics, am not a biochem on all chars, and am no guru at this game. But seriously if peeps actually spend some time to learn what their trained skills / talents do, and then make good use of them, there won't be so much complaining.

 

Keep your gear up to date, the mods you find on commendations / $$$ vendors on planet you are questing, are usually couple levels behind what you could use, I bought Kira an orange double blade saber from tatooine weapon vendor as soon as I landed, and couple levels later got one from Taral V FP (none wanted it, and I won the greed roll) so she rocks a weapon better than mine atm hehe :>

[LastRedemption]

No, there is not. You are making a new thread about something that's been discussed to death already and you could have joined those threads. But no, instead you want the fame, you want some of us to pity you. Well, guess what. I won't.

 

The class is fine, the UI delay, the clumsiness of the game as a whole is not. Did you even bother reading the devs answer to your kind of complaints?

 

They basically told everyone to L2P/wait for UI fix and they'd just look at the final quest and our companion. Eventually, maybe, probably not actually, tweak 1-2 skills so some people don't need to only look at their skill bar while playing.

 

They are not going to buff anything, nor make it easier anytime soon.

 

I'm not looking for pity from you or anyone else. I'm asking bioware to look at the class. I've read the dev post and it doesn't address the issue that we need to be overleveled to quest.

 

I appreciate your thread bump however.

[urborror]

<Ours is not the only one. If we factor in everyone wanting to be a dual saber wielding Jedi because it's practically the coolest thing ever, I think we're about on par for complaints with the other classes.>

 

I play as two other classes (I rolled another class and abandoned my Jedi Knight), and the RP desire to be "Darth Maul" does not remotely resemble the onslaught of complaints about the Jedi Knight's gimpiness, Sentinel especially, on these forums. Go look at the other boards--there's virtually nothing except "Do you think this ability is useless or UP or OP?", and almost 0 "this class sucks," except maybe under Sith Warrior. Compounding that, none of the dozens of mostly-articulate complainers "babling" even resemble the normal forums trolls, as nobody's threatening to "cancel our accounts!!!11" and references to WoW are usually for the purposes of reasoned comparison.

 

I've played 60% of my time as Sith Inquisitor (there's no complaints whatsoever about class gimpiness in the forums), 25% Jedi Knight and 15% Trooper. The Jedi Sentinel class is gimp compared to the other classes. It's so gimped "Dear Bioware: FIX IT!!! QQ" is actually somewhat warranted.

[andrew_b_gross]

My best guess is you weren't attempting to do quests at your level and you were always a few levels ahead of the quests you were working on.

 

Nope. Not once did I ever wait for a class quest to go green. They were always either yellow or orange. I never once remained on a planet past the recommended level for that planet listed on the astro navigator; in fact, I still have no idea how the story line on a couple of planets ends, because I left as soon as I hit the recommended level (for example, I can't drop my Alderan quest from my log because I never came close to finishing that story line). I would have considered it to be a personal failure to need to outlevel my class quest opponent, which is why I bonked my head on Angral and the Crab Demon repeatedly until I figured out how to beat them, rather than just running off to level a couple of times.

 

100% certain I did not outlevel the content I was doing. 100% certain I went entire levels at a time-- 2,3,4 levels in a row-- without dying. 100% certain I only had problems with two class bosses.

 

I get that you feel insulted. If I had to place a bet, I would bet that you're missing one crucial fact or strategy that is leading to your experience, and that if you were able to figure out what that was, the game would entirely change for you. You certainly don't come off as being stupid or ill informed or incompetent, so I'm guessing it's like me with the space battles. The only difference is, it never once occured to me to complain that space battles were broken and that my ship needed to be upgraded-- I assumed from the start that I wasn't getting something.

Edited January 12, 2012 by andrew_b_gross

[LastRedemption]

<Ours is not the only one. If we factor in everyone wanting to be a dual saber wielding Jedi because it's practically the coolest thing ever, I think we're about on par for complaints with the other classes.>

 

I play as two other classes (I rolled another class and abandoned my Jedi Knight), and the RP desire to be "Darth Maul" does not remotely resemble the onslaught of complaints about the Jedi Knight's gimpiness, Sentinel especially, on these forums. Go look at the other boards--there's virtually nothing except "Do you think this ability is useless or UP or OP?", and almost 0 "this class sucks," except maybe under Sith Warrior. Compounding that, none of the dozens of mostly-articulate complainers "babling" even resemble the normal forums trolls, as nobody's threatening to "cancel our accounts!!!11" and references to WoW are usually for the purposes of reasoned comparison.

 

I've played 60% of my time as Sith Inquisitor (there's no complaints whatsoever about class gimpiness in the forums), 25% Jedi Knight and 15% Trooper. The Jedi Sentinel class is gimp compared to the other classes. It's so gimped "Dear Bioware: FIX IT!!! QQ" is actually somewhat warranted.

 

Finally someone who has tried other classes, sees the issue with sentinel, and isn't afraid to speak up.

 

I applaud you.

[andrew_b_gross]

You know what you need to do? Go roll a trooper, bounty hunter, imperial agent -- or anything for that matter that is not a Jedi Knight. Play that class for a little and you will see the issue I'm talking about with sentinel. The class is underpowered IN COMPARISON to other classes.

 

Number one, I don't care how other classes play. I have no need to go try them, because I don't want to play those classes. If someone else is having an easier time or pressing less buttons or whatever, it has no effect on me whatsoever. That seems to me to be a pretty sad way to go through life, not enjoying what you have because you're always looking over at your neighbor to see if he has it better.

 

Number two, I wish you'd make up your mind what you're complaining about, so we can respond in a way that makes sense. It sure seemed like you were complaining that you were having a hard time doing the content, that you "constantly die", that you couldn't figure out how to beat bosses without losing a bunch of health, etc., none of which have anything whatsoever to do with other classes, and all of which pretty clearly must be due to how you personally are playing the game, since many of us are not having that experience at all. Now all of a sudden you're saying you can make it through the content just fine, but you're irked because you think other classes can make it through the content even easier.

 

I don't want the class buffed because it's already borderline too easy for me as it is. I like being challenged. I don't want a button I can press that will give me a level 50 toon decked out in all epics, I want to earn it. I don't want to play a WoW Arcane mage where I stand in one spot until a light tells me to move 3 feet to the right, repeatedly pressing 1,1,1,2,1,1,1,2... for 5 minutes. The level of interaction and thought and reaction that the Sentinel class provides makes me happy, and the challenge presented by the content gives me an enjoyable play experience. I would like for them to improve the UI so that I can watch the animation of my toon fighting instead of watching the quickbars to monitor my CDs, but that has nothing to do with how easy or hard the game is, or how powerful the class is. If other classes are easier, then I don't want to play them; and if they make the Sentinel more powerful, I'll most likley lose interest and stop playing the game altogether, because I see no point in playing a "game" that you win just by logging on.

Edited January 12, 2012 by andrew_b_gross

[LordHartigan]

The only thing I can say the OP may be on too is that straight DPS builds I think have a slightly harder time soloing. I play mainly both a sentinel and deception assassin. I basically look how classes are supposed to battle like this; you can win because you can keep yourself alive healing, or because you take more damage due to armor or tank skills, or you can kill faster than you get killed. DPSers fall into the latter. You can't heal yourself and you don't have the heavy gear to take a bunch of damage. You have to hope you can deal out enough damage to kill before you get killed. Kill fast is the name of the game which I think makes straight dps harder to solo than tank or healer, though I haven't encountered any huge roadblocks. The last hard roadblock I had was dieing about half dozen times with my assassin on a boss on nar shadaa bonus series.

[Riotus]

lvl 42 sentinel watchmen here.

 

Ive soloed all my solo quests with ease. your doing it wrong. L2P

[LastRedemption]

Number one, I don't care how other classes play. I have no need to go try them, because I don't want to play those classes. If someone else is having an easier time or pressing less buttons or whatever, it has no effect on me whatsoever. That seems to me to be a pretty sad way to go through life, not enjoying what you have because you're always looking over at your neighbor to see if he has it better.

 

Number two, I wish you'd make up your mind what you're complaining about, so we can respond in a way that makes sense. It sure seemed like you were complaining that you were having a hard time doing the content, that you "constantly die", that you couldn't figure out how to beat bosses without losing a bunch of health, etc., none of which have anything whatsoever to do with other classes, and all of which pretty clearly must be due to how you personally are playing the game, since many of us are not having that experience at all. Now all of a sudden you're saying you can make it through the content just fine, but you're irked because you think other classes can make it through the content even easier.

 

 

#1 - If you aren't willing to try another class you will never see the issue for what it is. That is a problem. No one is telling you to play another class forever, but damn TRY another class and see for yourself. No wonder you have no idea what the "QQers" are complaining about. You have ONLY played this 1 class.

 

#2 - Yeah, I can make it through content if I am overleveled. And even then it is still difficult. If I try to do quests that are my level, it is insanely difficult to the point where I might as well not bother since I don't have the doctor yet.

 

#3 - I'm not asking them to change the class mechanics or the skills available. I'm asking them to review the class's damage output given the fact that we don't have heavy armor or any heal skill (no, I'm not talking about an indirect heal via talent spec). I never said they need to make the class anything different in terms of how you play sentinel.

 

If you would get off the forums and go try another class you might actually understand that a healer-dps role with heavy armor is doing the same, if not more damage than we are. And they have heavy armor. And they have heal skills (even if they don't spec heals).

 

Take the blinders off and you'll see for yourself.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Finally someone who has tried other classes, sees the issue with sentinel, and isn't afraid to speak up.

 

I applaud you.

 

I'm also playing a Sith Assassin and I think they are worse than Sentinel, so booya. Just because I suck as an Assassin doesn't mean it needs fixing.

Edited January 12, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Vember]

#1 - If you aren't willing to try another class you will never see the issue for what it is. That is a problem. No one is telling you to play another class forever, but damn TRY another class and see for yourself. No wonder you have no idea what the "QQers" are complaining about. You have ONLY played this 1 class.

 

 

I have a 47 Shadow. I find leveling with the Sentinel not only easier, but faster as well.