Kashaan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Really? Would you happen to have some sort of link or book title handy? I'm not doubting you; I'm just always interested in developments on the subject, and last I knew, that *was*, in fact, the accepted standard. Science is a nebulous thing, however. And really, this topic is no longer salvageable. It's only a matter of time before it gets locked. I could only point to textbooks from modern universities. The main "support" for this argument was Estrogen vs. Testosterone (since Testosterone helps to build muscle). However, there have been women that have naturally high testosterone, and the point is rendered completely moot by the ability to receive hormone therapy. The statement may have been mostly true for the average woman years ago, but not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandervon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Not reading the rest of the thread, I'll just throw in my two cents here from what I read. These are the opinions of a man who was almost entirely raised by women alone, and had a very difficult time in my younger years sorting out my identity due to women being almost entirely incapable of understanding how to raise a male amoung a group of females. Somewhere in this thread someone said that the empire is led by all men to show that they are biggots? Well by that same logic, then is the republic led by all women to show that they are also biggots? :/ The empire is led by all men most likely because (this is the iron truth here) it is more commen to find a "manowar" than it is to find a "womanowar". Call me sexist, call me a chauvanist pig, whatever, sorry but that's the truth. For better or for worse, men are simply more prone to violence than women are. That's just how it is, sorry gals. There has always been exceptions to this in history of course, but most of the time this is the case. Men didn't conspire all around the globe for thousands of years to keep women down and out of the army. Women just didn't have the same type of natural fighting instinct that was always demanded to fight bandits, animals, armies, whatever was trying to destroy your village, castle, town, or children. It does bother me that the republic has no males leaders, because naturally males ARE leaders. The feminism of men in this society is getting pretty ridiculous, and honestly this kind of makes me sick. I don't hate women at all, I really love women and was raised by them. But women and men are very different, but that's what makes us so strong TOGETHER. The goal of femenism is to replace men entirely (sorry, but that's the truth) and whether it was intentional or not, this game is a perfect example of men in our society being deprived of masculine examples of men. It's very difficult to be a real man these days. Women get everything in the divorce, women expect men to pay for everything, women demand to make the same amount of money, women constantly impose themselves into masculine activities, women get special treatment because of how "sexist" society apparently is. But because of all the special treatment women have gotten, they have yet to realize that they have basically declared a "war on boys" in which males are now the "inferior" gender. TL;DR women want to be men nowadays, and no one wants to be women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matais Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Gender shouldn't matter, People complaining like children between men and women on these forums is getting rediculous now. So what if a woman has a slight genetic handicap its been proven time and time again that smart women make up for it with manipulation skills. At the end of the day strength is made of the power of mouth and power of the physical. Anyone who masters both deserves the right to declare how strong they are. Strength also is determined by individuals not groups. Just because men have an inherit advantage physically doesn't mean a damn thing in todays society. Back to what i said about word of mouth, in today's world word of mouth can cause more damage to people's lives than brute strength. The only way where physical difference really mattered is i guess is in the middle ages where hand to hand combat was common and swinging Zwei handers was commonly a man's thing. Same with other bladed or blunted weapons, it was because of how heavy they were. I have no problem lifting a one handed sabre (1800s style) but medieval weapons were considerable heavier so i would probably need two hands to use a long sword ( i am out of shape so i guess this comparison is bad) can we please stop waving the sexism cards and just play the game? (Trying to be polite here while being honest from experience) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyfy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Not reading the rest of the thread, I'll just throw in my two cents here from what I read. These are the opinions of a man who was almost entirely raised by women alone, and had a very difficult time in my younger years sorting out my identity due to women being almost entirely incapable of understanding how to raise a male amoung a group of females. Somewhere in this thread someone said that the empire is led by all men to show that they are biggots? Well by that same logic, then is the republic led by all women to show that they are also biggots? :/ The empire is led by all men most likely because (this is the iron truth here) it is more commen to find a "manowar" than it is to find a "womanowar". Call me sexist, call me a chauvanist pig, whatever, sorry but that's the truth. For better or for worse, men are simply more prone to violence than women are. That's just how it is, sorry gals. There has always been exceptions to this in history of course, but most of the time this is the case. Men didn't conspire all around the globe for thousands of years to keep women down and out of the army. Women just didn't have the same type of natural fighting instinct that was always demanded to fight bandits, animals, armies, whatever was trying to destroy your village, castle, town, or children. It does bother me that the republic has no males leaders, because naturally males ARE leaders. The feminism of men in this society is getting pretty ridiculous, and honestly this kind of makes me sick. I don't hate women at all, I really love women and was raised by them. But women and men are very different, but that's what makes us so strong TOGETHER. The goal of femenism is to replace men entirely (sorry, but that's the truth) and whether it was intentional or not, this game is a perfect example of men in our society being deprived of good masculine examples of men. It's very difficult to be a real man these days. Women get everything in the divorce, women expect men to pay for everything, women demand to make the same amount of money, women constantly impose themselves into masculine activities, women get special treatment because of how "sexist" society apparently is. But because of all the special treatment women have gotten, they have yet to realize that they have basically declared a "war on boys" in which males are now the "inferior" gender. TL;DR women want to be men nowadays, and no one wants to be women. I thought you needed just a slight adjustment to your statement but otherwise yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostluna Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's very difficult to be a real man these days. Women get everything in the divorce, women expect men to pay for everything, women demand to make the same amount of money, women constantly impose themselves into masculine activities, women get special treatment because of how "sexist" society apparently is. But because of all the special treatment women have gotten, they have yet to realize that they have basically declared a "war on boys" in which males are now the "inferior" gender. TL;DR women want to be men nowadays, and no one wants to be women. What you are saying may apply to THIS world, but you do realize that we are talking about a fictional universe featuring a civilization that is at least 20,000 years old? That is what I can't understand about this argument. maybe in the history of the entire Republic there has only been one time that the three most powerful people in the Republic happened to be women. Maybe its rare, maybe its common. There is nothing keeping women in this universe from being powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malderak Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Despite the fact this topic has gotten way off-topic, I had to post to tell you you're wrong. This statement couldn't be more incorrect. Everything about it is false. You might want to do some research before making blatantly false statements. Whatever, have fun living in your imaginary world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiellyn Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I could only point to textbooks from modern universities. The main "support" for this argument was Estrogen vs. Testosterone (since Testosterone helps to build muscle). However, there have been women that have naturally high testosterone, and the point is rendered completely moot by the ability to receive hormone therapy. The statement may have been mostly true for the average woman years ago, but not anymore. Hm. Well, thanks for giving me a slight basis on the topic. I'll be sure to do some re-research whenever the opportunity presents itself. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) The empire is led by all men most likely because (this is the iron truth here) it is more commen to find a "manowar" than it is to find a "womanowar". Call me sexist, call me a chauvanist pig, whatever, sorry but that's the truth. For better or for worse, men are simply more prone to violence than women are. That's just how it is, sorry gals. The OP's basic premise was false. The Empire is not lead by all men, and the republic is not lead by all women. There is a fairly equal spread of men and women leaders on both sides. While the Empire's military is mostly male, the Sith have many female leaders... and the Sith outrank the military. Conversely, the Republic is almost equal split. There is a good balance of female and male leaders both within the Jedi and the Republic military and Senate. The thread's entire premise is false. It does bother me that the republic has no males leaders, because naturally males ARE leaders. The feminism of men in this society is getting pretty ridiculous, and honestly this kind of makes me sick. I don't hate women at all, I really love women and was raised by them. But women and men are very different, but that's what makes us so strong TOGETHER. The goal of femenism is to replace men entirely (sorry, but that's the truth) and whether it was intentional or not, this game is a perfect example of men in our society being deprived of masculine examples of men. This paragraph is sickeningly false. There is nothing genetically or even sociologically that makes men "natural" leaders, much less better leaders. Men were in power in less enlightened ages because they used violence and fear tactics to subjugate women. Furthermore, you shouldn't be speaking about Feminism when it's clear you don't understand it. It's very difficult to be a real man these days. Women get everything in the divorce, women expect men to pay for everything, women demand to make the same amount of money, women constantly impose themselves into masculine activities, women get special treatment because of how "sexist" society apparently is. But because of all the special treatment women have gotten, they have yet to realize that they have basically declared a "war on boys" in which males are now the "inferior" gender. Apologies for the bluntness, but this paragraph is even more full of fail. -What someone gets in a divorce is decided by financial stability, not gender -Women do not expect men to pay for everything. The only situation that might apply as a general rule is First dates. Other than that, there is no generality that can be made. -"Impose themselves into masculine activities"?! Like what? You're upset that your girlfriend wants to go hunting? Or is it something even more inane like you think that women who want to play sports are somehow insulting you by doing so? What basis do you even have for taking offense to this? -"Women demanding same pay as men" is wrong? They SHOULD be equal. There is no reason a woman should make less money than a man if they can do the job. -"Special treatment"? o.O You can't be serious. For the vast majority of time that the human species has been around, women have been subjugated. So I suppose you could call that special treatment... What you don't understand is that modern society if finally getting close to treating women as equals. Men are not becoming "inferior". You're just upset that you don't have the advantage you used to. This is all coming from a man, btw. I'm highly doubting your "credentials" you reported at the beginning as well. Edited January 13, 2012 by Kashaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Whatever, have fun living in your imaginary world. Just the kind of comment I expect from someone who can't support their false claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandervon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I thought you needed just a slight adjustment to your statement but otherwise yes. Nah, there's only two types of men: Kamina and Simon. These days boys are indoctrinated into thinking they need to be Simon, and they can never be happy because they aren't acting like manly men, the ay nature intended. Being raised by women was very hard, and I got into a lot of fights when I was in school because I never felt quite right. After I started spending more time with my father, working out, starting some play-boxing, I started to just feel better. My attitude improved, I have a much better job, and I'm doing things with my life now. The point is that men and women are both valuable. Women these days are taught that men are obsolete and need to be "replaced", and they try to do the things that men are literally born to do. This leads to women being unhappy because they aren't doing what they enjoy, and men being unhappy because they are being castrated. I do like female leaders, but there needs to be a balance here. All women and all men is way too polarized, they both offer something of extreme value. If the empire wants to represent itself with all male leaders because they are biggots well...I guess that makes sense. But a republic that represents itself with all female leaders? That seems extremely unlikely, especially with all the incredible value that a male leader can bring to leadeship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostluna Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 But a republic that represents itself with all female leaders? That seems extremely unlikely, especially with all the incredible value that a male leader can bring to leadeship. Why would it be unlikely? Again, we are not dealing with Earth culture... As as for the incredible value of male leadership... well I'm sure I don't have to point out the last few presidents to you do I? Not saying that a woman would do better..... I'm just really confused as to why so many men are so threatened by fictional women leaders in a fictional universe with space wizards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malderak Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Just the kind of comment I expect from someone who can't support their false claim. My claims are supported by the vast difference between male and female records on strength based sports. And by basic human biology which says males have 5 to 10 the level of testosterone of women. And by this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans (yes, it's wikipedia, I can't provide an indepth study here, but the sources in there are all legitimate). Your claims, on the other hand, are supported by you living in an imaginary world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matais Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Why would it be unlikely? Again, we are not dealing with Earth culture... As as for the incredible value of male leadership... well I'm sure I don't have to point out the last few presidents to you do I? Not saying that a woman would do better..... I'm just really confused as to why so many men are so threatened by fictional women leaders in a fictional universe with space wizards. THe presidency is giant circus. Who takes it seriously. Besides people forget that the American senate is full of dellusional idiots who are out of touch with reality. I say better idea is to boot the old people out and put some people who actually have used the internet and modern technology. You are kinda implying that men are inferior in this respect. Well to put it bluntly, leaders are only as capable as the power they are able to hold. In summation, eliminate the old people in the senate and get a person who knows how to command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trineda Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hello everyone, This thread has fallen way off course from the original discussion. In order to keep the forums tidy and conversations in one place please use this thread to discuss the topic of male and female roles, we will be closing this current thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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