LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[corbanite]

In WoW with LFD you could run dungeon over and over again.. In order to cheat the queue people would sign up for roles like tank when they had no frigging clue about tanking.. but TBH that didn't matter as they only wanted loot of the first boss then quit the group and leave the rest of the party waiting for 40 minutes fair a new tank or just give up.

 

No to cross server LFD.. Too many tools wanting to play the system rather then play the game

Edited January 12, 2012 by corbanite

[ferroz]

but TBH that didn't matter as they only wanted loot of the first boss then quit the group and leave you for 40 minutes waiting for another one.

More like 5 minutes.

 

hell, the last few times I ran dungeons the queue time was under 15 minutes as a dps...

[corbanite]

More like 5 minutes.

 

hell, the last few times I ran dungeons the queue time was under 15 minutes as a dps...

 

Not whenever I queued as DPS on my warlock they didn't.

Edited January 12, 2012 by corbanite

[jettemakaron]

In WoW with LFD you could run dungeon over and over again.. In order to cheat the queue people would sign up for roles like tank when they had no frigging clue about tanking.. but TBH that didn't matter as they only wanted loot of the first boss then quit the group and leave the rest of the party waiting for 40 minutes fair a new tank or just give up.

 

No to cross server LFD.. Too many tools wanting to play the system rather then play the game

 

Never happend to me but cool story.

[Amanzuul]

Like any other tool it can work well or horribly. I like the single server idea of it, keeps people a little more honest.

 

I have used the system in WoW as well and you get some good, some bad. I tend to be the more patient type so the heirloom geared mage yelling "GO GO GO GO GO" all the time is kinda irritating. At the same time, I have met a lot more folks, even recruited some if they were on the same server, and had some great, multiple runs.

 

The challenge I see with building this tool across servers is the voice acting sequences before shipping off to the flashpoint and then when coming back from the flashpoint. There are responses and social points earned on the conversations. Perhaps the location where we pick up the flashpoints could be server neutral or the system goes by the group leader and everyone else holo's in, that might work.

 

Might be a complex tool to program into the game, despite asking a number of years for it, it was just in WotLK for Blizzard to implement it. I seem to remember developers commenting on this type of tool during the Beta testing of SWTOR, there are some challenges to making it work.

[Dookieagain]

Can I just point out that aside from bugs very few of the hard mode flashpoints are hard? Hard mode Black Talon is a joke. And just by doing that and the daily/weekly you can pretty quickly gear up in purples.

 

Second I run flashpoints as much as I can. I rolled a tank so that I would have an easier time running flashpoints and I'm always looking at the little number in the top left, and in the past two weeks I have only ever once seen more than 8 players in any of the hard mode instances. That's terrible. Especially when you consider that I am on a high pop pve server (corellia run) and this is during prime time. Not off hours anywhere between six and eleven pm.

 

Finally I'm a working adult in a guild of real life friends and guild mates from other mmos, and everyone who didn't have a winter break from work is only between lvs 25-35 and so we don't have an option of running guild groups. Should everyone in that position just stop playing or trying ti advance their character?

 

Before you tell me to roll an alt, I'm waiting for the legacy system.

[maradigamer]

In WoW with LFD you could run dungeon over and over again.. In order to cheat the queue people would sign up for roles like tank when they had no frigging clue about tanking.. but TBH that didn't matter as they only wanted loot of the first boss then quit the group and leave the rest of the party waiting for 40 minutes fair a new tank or just give up.

 

No to cross server LFD.. Too many tools wanting to play the system rather then play the game

 

They already said they don't want cross server. And it's true that some of the WoW groups were rude and inconsiderate. But I played WoW a little before LFD was implemented, and guess what? I ran into plenty of rude people while looking for a guild so I could do the content and I can't say the conversation was ever scintillating.

 

WoW's population tends toward etiher tight-lipped and inconsiderate or rude and mouthy and cross server LFD didn't cause that problem. It just exposed more people to more of it.

[HoneyBoy]

I really am sick of this presumption that the inclusion of a tool that made it easier to get groups somehow 'dumbed' down content.

 

Because that's exactly what it did. Not people gaining experience and understanding of a dungeon and it's bosses, and accumulating gear at a faster rate which allows quicker, more efficient runs.

 

No, it has to be the LFD tool.

 

If I trained a gerbil to be able to hunt it's way through a series of mazes with a block of cheese at the end, and it took about two months to do so, will people complain that the mazes are too easy when he barrels through them all flawlessly?

 

 

 

 

You want a challenging MMO, I assume. Well, companies like Blizzard implemented things like Hard Mode raids, and even Bioware implemented hard mode raids. What you seem to be looking for is exclusive content, which is a rotten, old model and not suited for a company who invested well over 300 million dollars to get minimal returns on.

 

Great post, tired of all the "it dumbs down content" posts that are nothing more than people who need to have content limited to them to enjoy this game. Bioware added hardmode operations just for players (like me) looking for that type of challenge.

Edited January 13, 2012 by HoneyBoy

[NoiseTankXIII]

Great post, tired of all the "it dumbs down content" posts that are nothing more than people who need to have content limited to them to enjoy this game. Bioware added hardmode operations just for players (like me) looking for that type of challenge.

 

Sadly people continue to parrot that old tired line because for some reason. Really infuriating and insulting to the developers.

[Dekutanoth]

I love people who say "what killed wow" or "the game is dead," because it's hilarious. The game is far from dead.

 

WoW is not dumbed down. You want hard content? Go kill heroic modes. As previously mentioned, while being the 1% who could actually kill things in Naxxramas in Vanilla was a giant ego boost to the 1% that could actually do it, the other 99% feels left out. Thus, normal modes and hard modes. If you try to cite LFR as an example of "dumbed down" content, then... yes. It's easier. It's supposed to be, so that the average player can defeat deathwing without spending hours wiping. If you want elitism and status, kill him on heroic mode.

 

Even being a little off-topic, it still relates to this thread. LFD didn't "ruin" the community. Sure, you're going to meet ***** there, but you'll meet ***** everywhere, it's not exclusive to LFD. I think the idea that LFD is "full of trolls and ninjas" is a gross exaggeration. I myself have nice, decent groups about 95% of the time. Sure, I meet the annoying elitists, the rude trolls, but I just tend to ignore them, and they're quite rare.

 

As for "copying wow" argument: Remember when remotes didn't exist? You actually had to have someone by the TV, turning the dial? Yeah. Remotes ruined TV. I want to go back to the good old days, before they had remotes, those were the good times, eh?

LFD is a tool that adds convenience to everyday life, just like a remote. It's a quality-of-life thing. Air conditioning, power windows on a car, email instead of regular mail. It takes something you want to do, and makes it easier. I fail to see how that is bad.

 

"It ruins the community," you say. Well, I can't speak for everyone, but on the multiple servers I've been on in any MMO, unless you "troll" general/trade, and make yourself out to be a stupid person, no one really pays attention (and I've been playing long before LFD). Usually the only thing people complain about in the trade chat is if a whole guild ninjas, but then you just get replies like "lol" and "who cares."

 

LFD is a tool, a quality-of-life addition. Don't knock it because you want every group you're in to be troll/ninja-free. You're going to get those even if you recruit, and the "community" probably won't even care if you rant about same-server ninjas.

[Mentoza]

I dont mind an LFD tool tho i wont use it since i find easy to find group fast.

 

But mark my words those who say that "I dont want to waste 1 hour LFG blah blah...

even with the LFD tool they will qq .."As a dps i have to wait 45 mins to get in a group fix BW or i will unsub blah blah.." I was there i have seen it. Because people can never be happy with anything. If you cant enjoy the game as it is, well im sorry for you :/

[Corh]

Why does anyone really care about accountability. I played wow for years as well. For every bad group the lfg tool brought, there were 10 good ones. And right now, I would rather it be 10 bad ones for every good one then stand around doing nothing for another hour while trying to find a flashpoint group.

 

The system as it is, majorly sucks.

[cipero]

There really isn't an argument here. PVP has a que... there's absolutely no reason or difference a LFG tool would create.

 

Instead of forcing people to wait around on the very small and rather boring Fleet hubs in order to run something,. they would be able to que while venturing the actual world doing other things.

 

If your argument is that the tool would damage the 'community' of the game then you are obviously not playing the same game I am. All I see are high level characters sitting around the fleets bored as hell in general chat looking to form groups, with about 10 other people at the same time, all for different flashpoints. What kind of community is that?

 

But wait a minute..if you want to pvp then you can que anywhere in the game and be able to zone in, do your BG and then return to whatever you were doing before. That is a much better experience for anyone no matter what you think.

 

There's a reason other mmos implemented this tool, trying to find people to run what you need to run at a time when you have enough free time to run one is DIFFICULT. There's nothing fun about sitting around trying to find a group.

 

One more thing I wanted to point out while I was reviewing all the relevant threads is that so many people in this community are HELL BENT on it not becoming a world of warcraft clone, which to me is a ridiculous reason for petitioning BioWare not to implement tools that will elevate their game into a better standing. If anything, these people are in each and every suggestion thread, inking it up with their hate of world of warcraft (if you don't believe me just go see someone who does it, click their name and look at their past threads).

 

People don't have time to sit around waiting all day. A grouping tool is needed and should be implemented, it would make the game experience a trillion times better when it comes to running grouped content. Right now it's a dreaded... "Man, I have to find a group to do these quests on Hoth, now I have to find a group to do this flashpoint....Going to have to find a group later to do some more quests".

 

It's one thing to say people play with friends and family, but it's totally different to assume everyone does.

[cipero]

I dont mind an LFD tool tho i wont use it since i find easy to find group fast.

 

But mark my words those who say that "I dont want to waste 1 hour LFG blah blah...

even with the LFD tool they will qq .."As a dps i have to wait 45 mins to get in a group fix BW or i will unsub blah blah.." I was there i have seen it. Because people can never be happy with anything. If you cant enjoy the game as it is, well im sorry for you :/

 

You should be sorry, because there are a lot of people who are being frustrated and all that does is reduce the chance that this game will be able to push forward as far as those who are content wish.

[drbeat]

I relish this all as a case study in the whole "LFD killed WoW" argument. Now you have your dream game with no useful LFG tool.

 

Enjoy.

[xworndownx]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

I agree that another LFG tool is not needed.

 

LFD tool is NOT needed because when people start to encourage others to utilize the current system then all these problems will go away.

 

We can already set our LFG status, we can SEARCH EVERYONE who is currently LFG. What more do people want?

 

Maybe they want to queue for a LFG and go quest?

- You can do that.

 

Maybe they want to find people who set themselves as LFG?

- We can do that!

 

Maybe they want a buzzer saying "x has queued for J Flashpoint: Click yes to join or no to pass"

- Can do that with a simple whisper from a leader.

 

The problem isn't the LFG tool it is that people are not utilizing it fully.

 

I can get online, do a search for anyone who is LFG and find what I need at any given time. It is currently a bit slow but that is only because people are not setting themselves as LFG!

 

For the love of the force be it dark or light set yourselves as LFG so I can search for you while you are off doing a quest!

 

TL;DR: If you set a LFG comment and go quest, anyone can search through /who for "LFG" to find you! Please set a LFG comment so we can search and FIND YOU!

 

You don't have to wait, you don't have to stand around in fleet you can just set a LFG comment and others can find you.

 

But, ONLY if we all start using this system how it should be used.

[Meduka_Meguca]

Bioware has given their stand but there's nothing wrong with us continuing to give feedback and try to convince them of our arguments.

 

To me its a simple decision to implement cross server LFG.

 

Goal: Increase participation in flashpoints/operations

 

The goal of designing flashpoints and operations should be to allow them to be run by as much of the population as possible. Having any system where only a small minority of the player base experience flashpoint/operation content is a bad design philosophy. WOW took time to learn that, SWTOR can avoid that pitfall or fall in again where the overall MMO playerbase is less tolerant of bad designs.

 

Bioware has the hard data. They know how many flashpoint groups clear content and how many break up, they know what % of the playerbase has cleared how many flashpoints. They know how many players have never been able to run a flashpoint by the time they're L50. There is no place for anecdotal evidence here, after all, Bioware already has the data.

 

Solution: Only LFG Global can solve this problem

 

There is currently no known, suggested or implemented solution other than a global LFG that can give a high success rate at forming and maintaining a group. Spamming, forums, guilds, whatevers, they all have a success rate that is less than an automated LFG that matches players across servers. If Bioware sits on the drawing board and comes out with something better all the more power to them. But as it is, using a system that gives a lower success rate than LFG is only inefficiency.

 

Majority Rules

 

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. This is more so in an MMO which relies on large numbers of subscribers to maintain profitability. The people happy with no LFG are those who are thriving in this current system. Bioware has the data to tell what percentaile of the player population they are. They also have the data to see what proportion of the player population are having a lot of trouble getting flashpoints/operations going.

 

Complains of ninjas and unfriendly people are small consolation to players who cannot even enter a flashpoint reliably if it all. These are the players who could well decide that they would rather find another MMO that values their monthly subcription more. Telling these players to get lost will not be an option if they form a large proportion of the player base.

 

Conclusion

 

LFG is absolutely essential to ensure that a reasonable amount of the playerbase is able to run flashpoints/operations. Bioware can decide with their internal data if enough players are able to do so. Their decision will make the difference in how the future of SWTOR plays out.

[Orisai]

Bioware has given their stand but there's nothing wrong with us continuing to give feedback and try to convince them of our arguments.

 

 

If there's something I learned from Blizzard in my past 7 years of WoW, is that you shouldn't take the developer's words as final. Eventually, what they said to be impossible now, will be a reality tomorrow.

 

Race change, faction change, name changes, even paid character plastic surgeries were considered impossible in vanilla WoW... now they are Blizzard's current moneymakers.

[Korialstrazs]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

I played wow for 7 years, groups used to take two hours to put together. Then a LFG tool was released, after that it was extremely easy to form a group, and when one or two people dropped group after a wipe, as they ALWAYS did even when it took two hours to form, it only took two-three minutes to replace them through the tool. After the LFG tool was introduced, people acted the same way they always did, like asses.

 

I don't see why people complain about getting a lfg tool.

[coffeerox]

Another 7 year here My experiences are largely the same as others in this thread. The one I can relate to the most, is the post on UBRS.

 

The LFD and LFR has enabled me to see so much content that I literally don't want to play any MMO without it.

 

After WoW last year, I switched to DC Universe Online when it became F2P, a game that already had LFD and LFR and I enjoyed that immensely. I only left that game to play Skyrim and to try this game out.

 

Let me tell ya, once I level to 50 on my main and alt (36/14 atm) and LFD at least is not implemented, I'm out. Bioware's dev's had their fun, did their little experiment, and it doesn't work, for many reasons which are listed in this thread.

[Vincethejedi]

 

Majority Rules

 

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. This is more so in an MMO which relies on large numbers of subscribers to maintain profitability. The people happy with no LFG are those who are thriving in this current system. Bioware has the data to tell what percentaile of the player population they are. They also have the data to see what proportion of the player population are having a lot of trouble getting flashpoints/operations going.

 

Complains of ninjas and unfriendly people are small consolation to players who cannot even enter a flashpoint reliably if it all. These are the players who could well decide that they would rather find another MMO that values their monthly subcription more. Telling these players to get lost will not be an option if they form a large proportion of the player base.

 

^this. It's really easy, if you don't want or like an LFG, then don't use it...

 

Personally, I think it's on the way. Most people want it, and the anti-LFG crowd are the loud minority IMO, not the other way around.

[BubbaKeg]

I hope they add some type of utility to finding groups. I don't care if it is a LFG tool or some other new invention.

 

At this time, the one thing that is killing my gaming experience is finding groups for FPs. It takes longer to find a group (typically) then it does to actually runt he flashpoint. Then the whole LFG tag they currently have (which I use the entire time I'm logged into the game), does not work at all because very few people use it. I tend to be the only one who tags myself LFG, but as soon as I start spamming I'll get one or two other people (after maybe 20 minutes of spam).

 

I really hope they improve LFG in some way. Albeit a LFG tool or some other mechanism, it needs to be done. If no improvement to LFG is made and I don't find a guild that runs daily FPs, I will likely have to leave the game because not being able to do effiencent FPs is killing the experience for me.

 

This is just my 2 cents, but I'm really disappointed with grouping at this time. I have an easier time finding groups for Heroic quests - the reason being because people in your current area have an interest in those also. Solution - Global chat channels (which isn't a LFG tool but will allow you to find those close to your level who may be interested in the same FP but not standing around the Fleet).

 

Please fix grouping, its hurting my game experience tremendously.

[PolarB]

Yes DDO's lfg system was best. Simple, easy, fast. That's what I vote for!

[ferroz]

LFD tool is NOT needed because when people start to encourage others to utilize the current system then all these problems will go away.

False. The problems were there in EQ. The were there in wow before the lfd went in. Without a matchmaking system, these problems will continue to exist.

 

with a matchmaking system you have different problems. not the ones that most people cite (they're blaming the system for behavior it doesn't create or even encourage)

 

We can already set our LFG status, we can SEARCH EVERYONE who is currently LFG. What more do people want?

A valid lfg tool?

 

For the love of the force be it dark or light set yourselves as LFG so I can search for you while you are off doing a quest!

Never gonna happen. It didn't work in EQ. It didn't work in wow. It won't work here.

 

TL;DR: If you set a LFG comment and go quest, most likely: noone will bother looking and you'll log off without getting a group

fixed.

 

If you actually want a group, you have to sit and wait; you have to stand around in fleet because just setting an LFG comment doesn't mean anything.

Edited January 17, 2012 by ferroz

[kakotan]

All i know is we need something better then what we got cause i couldnt get a grp for anything yesterday even in my so called Empire guild, spamming in chat ppl miss you , finally a nice lvl 50 in my guild ran me through hammer station and Athis but its not the same as doing it with ppl my lvl range! There needs to be a better LFG and there needs to be a better need/greed system thats kinda like wows