Elicas Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Find my in depth Operative guide here, contains everything you could want to know about the Lethality and Medicine trees, as well as general Operative and IA bits and bobs. At least, I hope it contains everything you might want to know Currently sitting at over 3800 words, so go and get your read on! Reporting for sticky would be much appreciated, as it'll help people find it easier and I won't be needing to bump it. Thanks all. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 2things: in your leth build why do you prefer +10speed over -4energy cost on your CC+dart? (for pve) secondary: for your pve healing build i find the -15sec cd on the stun VASTLY inferior to an 8sec -20%accu debuff, why not go 2/2 in flash powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 2things: in your leth build why do you prefer +10speed over -4energy cost on your CC+dart? (for pve) secondary: for your pve healing build i find the -15sec cd on the stun VASTLY inferior to an 8sec -20%accu debuff, why not go 2/2 in flash powder? 1: End game Flashpoints and Operations generally have lots of ground based AoE and 'getting out of the fire' quicker is always preferable to a minor amount of reduced energy cost. Sever Tendon and Debilitate will very rarely be used as a Lethality DPS Operative. 2: From my experience, the -20% accuracy debuff either overwrites, or get's overwritten by the same abilities that tanks have, such as Oil Slick for BH's. Whether this is a UI limitation on the debuff panel for targets or not is yet unknown. Generally i've found myself using Debilitate much more often, as most instances have quite large trash pulls and I usually end up with a mob on me every second pull or so. AoE threat isn't quite so much attack and forget in this game, so I like to have something to help me slip away. Hope that clears things up for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) 1: End game Flashpoints and Operations generally have lots of ground based AoE and 'getting out of the fire' quicker is always preferable to a minor amount of reduced energy cost. Sever Tendon and Debilitate will very rarely be used as a Lethality DPS Operative. 2: From my experience, the -20% accuracy debuff either overwrites, or get's overwritten by the same abilities that tanks have, such as Oil Slick for BH's. Whether this is a UI limitation on the debuff panel for targets or not is yet unknown. Generally i've found myself using Debilitate much more often, as most instances have quite large trash pulls and I usually end up with a mob on me every second pull or so. AoE threat isn't quite so much attack and forget in this game, so I like to have something to help me slip away. Hope that clears things up for you. yeah but the bh debuff is only 5% while ours is 20%... even if it gets overwriten (given that they can keep it up 100% and we only 8sec/min) in a good coordinated group shouldn't it be better to keep ours running? edit:also about the 10%move speed. in the latest patch some people were saying that it now only applies to stealth speed, and not out of stealth too. any more info on that? Edited December 14, 2011 by Shroudveil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 yeah but the bh debuff is only 5% while ours is 20%... even if it gets overwriten (given that they can keep it up 100% and we only 8sec/min) in a good coordinated group shouldn't it be better to keep ours running? edit:also about the 10%move speed. in the latest patch some people were saying that it now only applies to stealth speed, and not out of stealth too. any more info on that? 1: http://www.torhead.com/ability/2QjwkB1 It's 20%, same as ours. 2: Perhaps, I need to wait to get in to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 1: http://www.torhead.com/ability/2QjwkB1 It's 20%, same as ours. 2: Perhaps, I need to wait to get in to find out. oh didn't even know about that ability. i was mostly talking about the quake talent of juggs (-5%accu aoe on smash, which can be kept up 100%) but even with oil slick, it's 18sec/min, still gives plenty of room for our 8sec/min. meh, we will probably see how things unfold (and how cooperative are the tanks.. thank gods dpsers don't have such debuffs cause they are usually the ones overwriting everything without care:P) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munnyony Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Why do you put your talents in speed and extra healing received? Why not put them in precision instruments and endorphin rush? Quick and easy energy management and it corresponds with lethal purpose in the lethality tree perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 on the pvp healing spec could you elaborate one why you'd go for Infiltrator over Slip away? It seems like 30s CD + sprint for one of your best CCs would be much better than better stealth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Why do you put your talents in speed and extra healing received? Why not put them in precision instruments and endorphin rush? Quick and easy energy management and it corresponds with lethal purpose in the lethality tree perfectly. Which spec? on the pvp healing spec could you elaborate one why you'd go for Infiltrator over Slip away? It seems like 30s CD + sprint for one of your best CCs would be much better than better stealth... Generally because I tend to hang back alot when I PvP, and find myself very infrequently in melee. I usually tend to be stealthing around the outside of fights before popping out and healing a team mate where the opposition wasn't expecting a healer to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayieon Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The guide was an interesting read. The main disagreement I have with it is the fact that you discount the viability of alacrity, because you only look at the negative aspect. Sure, the ability to channel heals faster means you can potentially burn through your energy reserves before they have the chance to regenerate; however, channeling a heal in one second versus one point five seconds can mean the difference between a kill and a wipe. I have seen the scenario play out many times, as I have been playing one MMO or another for the past 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stncold Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Don't agree with some of those specs, but otherwise a nice guide for explaining the mechanics/cover system. After many many hours logged as a 50 Operative, one thing I came to believe is that Infiltrator is our best talent and any build without it maxed is a bad one. Edited December 14, 2011 by Stncold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) The guide was an interesting read. The main disagreement I have with it is the fact that you discount the viability of alacrity, because you only look at the negative aspect. Sure, the ability to channel heals faster means you can potentially burn through your energy reserves before they have the chance to regenerate; however, channeling a heal in one second versus one point five seconds can mean the difference between a kill and a wipe. I have seen the scenario play out many times, as I have been playing one MMO or another for the past 10 years. I weight Alacrity behind Cunning as second most important stat for PvE, and fourth most important for PvP, behind only Cunning, Endurance and Expertise. How is that discounting the viability of Alacrity? Don't agree with some of those specs, but otherwise a nice guide for explaining the mechanics/cover system. After many many hours logged as a 50 Operative, one thing I came to believe is that Infiltrator is our best talent and any build without it maxed is a bad one. It's only good until it's fixed, I very much doubt the 15% move speed is supposed to affect you outside of stealth. From what I saw of the beta feedback forums it looked like it was only supposed to buff Stealth speed up to 100% normal speed movement. I didn't want to put it in all my builds when it's very likely it'll be changed soon. Edited December 15, 2011 by Elicas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayieon Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 From the guide found here: "Alacrity is comparable to Haste in World of Warcraft, reducing activation and channelling times. This stat is of reduced value, as it does not affect our energy regen. It should never be discounted however, as reduced heal cast times are never a bad thing." I understand that you rank it second behind cunning, but you also make the comment (highlighted above) that it's of reduced value because it doesn't affect energy regeneration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stncold Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) It's only good until it's fixed, I very much doubt the 15% move speed is supposed to affect you outside of stealth. From what I saw of the beta feedback forums it looked like it was only supposed to buff Stealth speed up to 100% normal speed movement. I didn't want to put it in all my builds when it's very likely it'll be changed soon. Nope. It's intentional and was specifically stated by a systems design dev. When our CC(flash bang etc) was nerfed to 10m range at the beginning of November, there was a lot of whining about it. A systems design dev came into the thread and stayed that because we already have high base movement speed(Infiltrator), we do not need long-ranged CC. If it does get changed, this class will be worthless, especially DPS. Healing in pvp in this class is about the mobility and instants/relatively short casts. We do not have the CC that Sorc's or the heavy armor/survivability that Mercs do. Edited December 15, 2011 by Stncold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamonB Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 My main concern on the lethality tree is that its a dot heavy focus, yet the class only has 2 dots that i can think of, corrosive dart and grenade And you cant count acid blade if you spec in lethality. Am i missing something? Unless there are 3 other dots that I'm completely missing, I cant see how this can be considered a "DOT" heavy class...and its a shame, I would really enjoy playing a dot stacking short/mid range stealth class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 From the guide found here: "Alacrity is comparable to Haste in World of Warcraft, reducing activation and channelling times. This stat is of reduced value, as it does not affect our energy regen. It should never be discounted however, as reduced heal cast times are never a bad thing." I understand that you rank it second behind cunning, but you also make the comment (highlighted above) that it's of reduced value because it doesn't affect energy regeneration. It is of reduced value because it doesn't affect Energy regen, reduced value when compared to cunning at any rate. If it affected Energy regen t would likely be better value than Cunning. Nope. It's intentional and was specifically stated by a systems design dev. When our CC(flash bang etc) was nerfed to 10m range at the beginning of November, there was a lot of whining about it. A systems design dev came into the thread and stayed that because we already have high base movement speed(Infiltrator), we do not need long-ranged CC. If it does get changed, this class will be worthless, especially DPS. Healing in pvp in this class is about the mobility and instants/relatively short casts. We do not have the CC that Sorc's or the heavy armor/survivability that Mercs do. This I was not aware of, if that's the case, then i'll have a fiddle with my builds and work Infiltration in at 3/3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightglade Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The guide was an interesting read. The main disagreement I have with it is the fact that you discount the viability of alacrity, because you only look at the negative aspect. Sure, the ability to channel heals faster means you can potentially burn through your energy reserves before they have the chance to regenerate; however, channeling a heal in one second versus one point five seconds can mean the difference between a kill and a wipe. I have seen the scenario play out many times, as I have been playing one MMO or another for the past 10 years. I have read that alacrity only truly helps one of our heals. The others benefit so small from it as to be unaffected. You will not get a 1.5s channel down to 1.0s with DR. DR effects every stat and rating except endurance. Over 400 rating, the gains are so small that it makes going higher pointless. I plan on going with Cunning, Crit, Surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 I have read that alacrity only truly helps one of our heals. The others benefit so small from it as to be unaffected. You will not get a 1.5s channel down to 1.0s with DR. DR effects every stat and rating except endurance. Over 400 rating, the gains are so small that it makes going higher pointless. I plan on going with Cunning, Crit, Surge. Alacrity can hypothetically get all of our heals cast times down to GCD. Reaching that level of Alacrity once DR has been taken account of however, is currently impossible. Alacrity is especially useful with Diagnostic scan however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicas Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Back to the front with you! Funny how my BH tanking thread got 7000 views and is always on the front page, and this thread keeps slipping back to page 2/3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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