Open question to all Sents

[Rakimou]

I haven't reached L50 or L40 valor (I'm level 45, sitting at ~L30 valor).

I have tried all specs with their respective 31 pointers.

 

My PVE levelling has been a breeze. I can kill any mob without a problem with any spec and my DPS is fairly decent in FPs.

 

My PVP career is okay too. Given that I'm still under 50 in level 40 pvp blues and no biochem, I do ok. I can't touch any 50s in champ gear, but everyone else is fair game. Currently I use a focus spec.

 

Overall I think sent is slightly on the weaker side. It's definitely possible to push your gear and gameplay to the limit, but an average sent will be weaker than average sorc/sage or scou/oper. There's also an issue of being a melee character in SWTOR, due to insane amount of various snares and knockbacks. Everyone and his mom has a *********** AOE knockback plus some snare or root. Good grief.

AND there's a huge issue of the animation block, where some animations delay your abilities well beyond GCD. Sometimes I have to spam my hotkeys for 2 seconds to pop an instant ability. It's hurting watchmen the most, 'cause they have to pop overload saber every 15 seconds or so.

 

To draw a conclusion. Is sent a bit weaker than other classes? Possibly. Is it completely broken? No. It's definitely playable. And when the critical bugs are ironed out sent will definitely be an enjoyable class.

[Mavick]

It increases your groups speed as well, not just yours. That means the 4 players in your party, not the whole warzone.

 

I guess it does, my bad. Hadn't tested it actually was just going off the wording of the tooltip.

[sabresandiego]

What is the problem with these forums? Do any of you people realize we have a 3rd tree called focus? FOCUS IS THE STRONGEST PVP TREE! USE IT!

 

Every other thread is complaining about how weak this class is, and whether to spec watchman or combat. Look, those two specs are decent, especially in PVE, but focus is hands down the best pvp spec. It has better survivability and AOE damage then any other spec. Watchman can occasionally rival focus damage in pvp, but focus has more utility.

 

I am a rank 60 battlemaster sentinel on the crucible pits and our class is extremely good in the right hands. This class is one of the best classes in the game, not even close to being one of the weakest. The only place this class struggles is from level 1-39.

[Fascion]

What is the problem with these forums? Do any of you people realize we have a 3rd tree called focus? FOCUS IS THE STRONGEST PVP TREE! USE IT!

For those that play these games solely to PvP, I'm sure Focus lives up to every bit of the hype some folks here would wish to bestow upon it. For everyone else--those who solely PvE and those who do both--Focus doesn't appear to be nearly as viable of a spec.

 

When (if?) we are given the option for dual-specs, I'm sure you will see Focus gain a lot of favor. Until then, Watchman is top dog due to it's ability to cross between both worlds and, believe it or not, it's significant advantages over Focus in PvP (not saying it's better, just that it has it's pluses.)

[sabresandiego]

I leveled entirely as focus, using Doc as my healer. I did not have any trouble at all, my AOE was able to wipe packs of enemies very quickly.

[McDaniels]

Doing aoe damage doesn't make you good or useful to your team.

 

Focus isn't terrible but watchman is way better and combat probably is too. This game isn't about aoeing bad players in warzones who stack on the door and posting big damage stats... nobody cares...

 

I'm talking about ranked warzones because that is what is going to separate the men from the boys, and focus will not be used at a high level.

 

Even with that said I can probably do more damage than you as a watchman or in combat while contributing more towards the objectives of the warzone and supporting my team with heals and huge movement speed buffs.

 

To say that focus has more survivability and utility? What planet are you on... Zen heals and transendence up almost all of the time and you think you have better utility? What?

Edited January 12, 2012 by McDaniels

[McVade]

Level 46 here.

 

I tried Focus and Combat. It was just awful, at least compared to Watchman. Now, I'm sure some level of comfort plays a role in my inability to succeed with those two trees (as in didn't spend the time to L2P), but my experience with both of those trees was catastrophic. I mean, they were *god awful* compared to Watchman.

 

That's my experience anyway. Will probably try them again at some point, but yeah... wow. I do have an appreciation now for people who say Sentinel sucks if they never tried Watchman.

Edited January 12, 2012 by McVade

[Palathas]

I haven't tried Focus or Watchman and have been Combat spec all the way. I've not really had any problems at all except for Darth Angral and that was mainly because I forgot that Force Jump interrupts skill usage, so that was really my bad.

 

I'm lvl 35 and would consider myself a fairly average player, I don't PvP because I just plain suck at it and don't enjoy it at all. Overall I'd say the Combat tree is fine for PvE.

[Zuunster]

Huh, you're trying too hard. For your questions specifically:

 

1. Yes.

2. Yes, I ran Combat for about 20 or so Valor ranks after I picked up my 136 weapons.

 

 

The class is inherently "not broken".

 

Things that are broken:

 

1. UI. Sents rely significantly on the execution of their defensive cooldowns and on actually unloading when they have the opportunity to unload. UI and client-server bugs, errors, and latency impact Sent gameplay significantly.

 

2. Resolve. Derp de derp.

 

3. Combat.

 

Yes, Combat is slightly underpar. And I say "slightly". It has inherent weaknesses in a pug PvP format, but that is OK. It's imbalanced weakness has to do with its raw lack of potency, but this requires minor tuning at best -- a minor tweak or two to Precision Slash here, a minor tweak to Ataru scaling there, and it's just about good to go. Generally speaking, people need to use realize that pug vs. pug Warzones significantly favor Watchman and Focus. Combat begins to come ahead in real performance when you have a good premade assist train against an opponent premade + assist train.

 

 

But, circling back to the original topic, the "A" players are just average. A melee DPS class that has to deal with UI issues and a map design like Huttball requires above average players to meet minimum performance requirements.

 

A random mediocre Sentinel will perform poorly compared to a random mediocre Sage/Sorc/BH/Trooper/Scrapper/Op.

 

QFT

 

My name is Isaac, and I approve of this message.

[Csdabest]

Hey I know what they can do. Fix our offhand lightsaber. I been going around asking people that have offhand weapon what is their pri and sec dmg. And theirs seem to be alot closer than sents. Why does the Pri light saber does like 550-600 dmg while Sec does around 150-175. It doesnt make sense to me.They definetly need to boost it up. When I see the buff on the skill tree. I have it maxed at 36 percent damage. Which makes me think if I didnt have it maxed out what kind of damage will it be doing. Cuz right now it does about 36 percent damage.

 

It t did about 75 percent damage of our Main hand that would boost it to what (Pri Dmg) 600 (Sec DMG) 450 It would be pretty vible as a Pure DPS class. When i look at our abilities. It said Leadership...and group buffs.. and im like this is not what I signed up for as a Pure DPS. Class.

[Xzenthal]

Our offhand is alot for looks really and it does add to damage as many of our abilities adds the main with the off when attacking(i think). So the offhand saber is basically a bonus to our damage. Guardians abilities base damage on their main skills is higher than ours but we add the extra from our offhand to make up for this and the stats on it rivals their shield.

 

Tbh only thing I dislike with this class is that Blade rush and Merciless strike doesn't have a cool animation but really boring normal strike from right to left. Like give them the animation of sweep maybe and change sweep to us jumping straight up and turns aroudn fast with one lightsaber streched out to either side(helocopter style). Tbh anythign is better than how they look now. These are suppose to be our end game lv 40 skills and should look the part.

 

Otehrwise i'm happy with my sentinel even though I feel a but squishy in pvp but I haven't really pvped enough to warrant any calls for a buff just yet. I mostly get focused down really fast and I don't have any pvp gear so far so can't expect too much.

[MBirkhofer]

Doing aoe damage doesn't make you good or useful to your team.

 

Focus isn't terrible but watchman is way better and combat probably is too. This game isn't about aoeing bad players in warzones who stack on the door and posting big damage stats... nobody cares...

 

I'm talking about ranked warzones because that is what is going to separate the men from the boys, and focus will not be used at a high level.

 

Even with that said I can probably do more damage than you as a watchman or in combat while contributing more towards the objectives of the warzone and supporting my team with heals and huge movement speed buffs.

 

To say that focus has more survivability and utility? What planet are you on... Zen heals and transendence up almost all of the time and you think you have better utility? What?

Focus does have more and stronger CC. Shorter CD and higher damage stasis, as well as crush. That slow is beastly.

It has the highest burst of all 3 trees.

And yes, highest defense.

And not almost all of the time trans, it IS all of the time.

[EasymodeX]

Focus isn't terrible but watchman is way better and combat probably is too. This game isn't about aoeing bad players in warzones who stack on the door and posting big damage stats... nobody cares...

...

To say that focus has more survivability and utility? What planet are you on... Zen heals and transendence up almost all of the time and you think you have better utility? What?

 

You're severely underrating Focus.

 

While padding 600k damage on doors in Voidstar is gimmicky, there are specific capabilities that Focus provides that Watchman can't match:

 

- 8k crits, with 2500 on the player that that tank was guarding. Think about it. If you plan to break a premade that has a competent tank and heals, you will need to l2burstthe****ingtank after pressuring the DPS and/or heals then target switching. Almost no one who plays SWTOR in Warzones atm is really "that good". Even "good players in premades" don't play well. They scrub it up horrifically because the PvP is so casual and irrelevant with no serious repeated competition.

 

- The durability is, in fact, pretty solid. Focus gets 7% passive damage reduction. Watchman gets 4% versus internal/elemental.

 

- For Watchman, Transcendence is up 20-40% of the time (depends how much you're blowing on Zen). For Focus, Transcendence is up 80% of the time.

[McDaniels]

You guys can continue to think that if you want, I don't feel like arguing about it but you'll discover for yourself soon enough that watchman is just way better in terms of damage and support. Our sweep doesn't crit ofr 8k btw, thats only guardians....

 

And explain to me how you have transcendence up 80% of the time when I can build WAY more focus than you with valor talented....

 

Also keep in mind your transcendence is must less effective than mine because you lack tha talent.

 

ALso in terms of survivability watchman is better. You can have your 7% damage reduction, but I'm healing for 2% every time a burn crits which is roughly 40% of the time without zen up and when zen is up im healing for 3% for 6 guaranteed crits and healing my group for 1% as well... Sorry but its just better.

 

I think you guys are confusing what I said about transcendence, when I said I can have it up more than 50% of the time in a warzone, I didn't mean I use zen 50% of the time and transcendence 50% of the time, I meant I can have transcendence on my group for 50% of the entire time of the warzone or more, you just can't do that in focus. I think you guys are trying to say that you don't use zen and always use transcendence, but that is irrelevant because I can still have it up for me while also healing my group with zen when needed.

Edited January 12, 2012 by McDaniels

[sabresandiego]

Mcdaniels, nobody here is saying that watchman is a bad pvp spec, because it isnt. Watchman is a very good pvp spec, but overall focus is better. You can have your opinion, and I can have mine, but stop trying to spout off your opinion as fact. AOE damage is not useless at all, nor is the burst, mobility, and utility which the focus tree gives me. Not to mention all of my core damage abilities have a 10m range instead of 4m, which is HUGE. FOCUS is the best pvp tree, and watchman can compete. The only thing watchman can truly do better then focus is single target dps, but unfortunately its alot easier to shutdown a watchman then a focus sentinel because watchman is far squishier, has shorter range, and less mobility.

[BlakLanner]

50 Sentinel, Valor 52, Combat Spec (Might try Focus since my FP flags are bugged)

389 Expertise

 

I seem to do pretty well. I am usually in the top 2-3 for damage and tend to act as a "stalemate breaker" in Alderaan and Voidstar. I seem to have hot and cold streaks when it comes to performance based on enemy composition, but I would imagine that happens to any balanced class.

 

I think that BioWare needs to sort out the ability delay, stuttering and lag before they worry about balancing us as one of the biggest things that cause me problems in warzones is when I start up an attack 3-4 times, have the animation reset with no error message because the server and my screen do not agree on where my opponent is. We seem to be affected by this issue more than just about any other class.

 

Once that is done, they can look into systemic issues like CC duration, resolve, etc. Only after all that is done should they look into actual class issues, as the playing field will be truly level at that point.

[McDaniels]

Mcdaniels, nobody here is saying that watchman is a bad pvp spec, because it isnt. Watchman is a very good pvp spec, but overall focus is better. You can have your opinion, and I can have mine, but stop trying to spout off your opinion as fact. AOE damage is not useless at all, nor is the burst, mobility, and utility which the focus tree gives me. Not to mention all of my core damage abilities have a 10m range instead of 4m, which is HUGE. FOCUS is the best pvp tree, and watchman can compete. The only thing watchman can truly do better then focus is single target dps, but unfortunately its alot easier to shutdown a watchman then a focus sentinel because watchman is far squishier, has shorter range, and less mobility.

 

Really? I need to stop spouting my opinion as fact?

 

Let me give you a quote: "FOCUS IS THE STRONGEST PVP TREE! USE IT!"

 

What is that? What are you doing there? It sounds a lot like you're spouting off your opinion as fact to me.

 

You guys can enjoy focus tree, I presented the argument for watchman with facts that make it better but if you guys still believe otherwise then enjoy it until ranked comes out.

 

None of the points you bring up are even true, its really lolzy... Ask any good sentinel what spec is best...

Edited January 12, 2012 by McDaniels

[Anelyn]

Stop this crap already with Watchman is best, no focus is best, no no I hear combat totally pawns. Each spec has strong points going for it.

 

But facts remain, if you play in a premade, you are more helpful to your team as Focus. Transcendence can win you games, as well as the controlled burst with increased mobility and easier target swapping.

 

I noticed some complains about sentinel lacking a stun which makes landing the aoe bomb (which is also great burst for single target mind you) unreliable in pvp due to laggish / peeps moving away etc. Well sherlock guess what, playing in a premade you will have stuns on demmand from your teammates. Is hard to say on skype / vent: stun the sorc, going to bomb it?

 

Try gunslinger + focus sent, is amazing fun since you synergise so good with them. You have snares, they have roots stun and aoe CC. They can knocback root for you so you can leap and bomb peeps in place.

 

All specs are fun to play, but since you claim to know what is best for premades PvP, then you should also bring solid arguments - video included appreciated - as to why watchman is better than focus or combat. Please show us a video of a premade watchman who is not ignored by enemy premade team, how much dmg he does snared rooted cced, his dots dispelled in 1 global by competent healers etc. Sure you do great when you catch someone alone and they can't peel you or cleanse your dots to nullify your Zen effect as well, but that works for any spec.....

[McDaniels]

Stop this crap already with Watchman is best, no focus is best, no no I hear combat totally pawns. Each spec has strong points going for it.

 

But facts remain, if you play in a premade, you are more helpful to your team as Focus. Transcendence can win you games, as well as the controlled burst with increased mobility and easier target swapping.

 

I noticed some complains about sentinel lacking a stun which makes landing the aoe bomb (which is also great burst for single target mind you) unreliable in pvp due to laggish / peeps moving away etc. Well sherlock guess what, playing in a premade you will have stuns on demmand from your teammates. Is hard to say on skype / vent: stun the sorc, going to bomb it?

 

Try gunslinger + focus sent, is amazing fun since you synergise so good with them. You have snares, they have roots stun and aoe CC. They can knocback root for you so you can leap and bomb peeps in place.

 

All specs are fun to play, but since you claim to know what is best for premades PvP, then you should also bring solid arguments - video included appreciated - as to why watchman is better than focus or combat. Please show us a video of a premade watchman who is not ignored by enemy premade team, how much dmg he does snared rooted cced, his dots dispelled in 1 global by competent healers etc. Sure you do great when you catch someone alone and they can't peel you or cleanse your dots to nullify your Zen effect as well, but that works for any spec.....

 

I've brought solid arguments, people who keep claiming focus is best havent.

 

Let me derail all of your transcendence arguments. As focus you use it instead of zen all of the time, BUT (((((You build centering half as fast as I do as watchman with the valor talent))))) additionally, my transcendence increases my group speed by an additional 30% that your transcendence does not.

 

In the end, I will have transcendence up more than you, and my transcendence will be more potent. Not only will I have it up more than you, but I will also have zen up and be able to heal, the reason I can have both of these advantages is because I build centering twice as fast as you and therefore will have nearly twice as many opportunities to convert my stack into zen or transcendence.

 

Furthermore, onto the survivability debate. As a watchman my crit is nearly 40% with a smuggler buff that any premade will have, this means that 40% of my burns heal me for 2% of my health. Additionally, when I have zen up myself and my group are healed for 1% for 6 guaranteed crit burns. That stacks with the 2% meaning when zen is up I am guaranteed to heal myself for 18% OF MY MAX HP... That is huge, and I can have zen up very consistently, because, again I build centering twice as fast as normal. I consistently heal for over 75k in warzones, and about 15 to 25% of the time I heal for over 100k.

 

So not only is my transcendence much better for my group than focuses is, I have it up more, and I heal my group significantly throughout the warzone. Although the heals give me more survivability than focus, THEY ALSO GIVE ME MORE UTILTIY. Even if you had more survivability as focus, the heals I can give to my group make me more valuable in ranked.

 

I'm not going to make an argument about damage because there are no parsers, but I know that I can do more single target damage than any focus player and I'm pretty confident that I do more overall damage than a very good focus player could 90% of the time. Not trying to persuade you with that... It's just something I know and you will probably find out eventually.

 

Thats my argument, take it or leave it. These points are actually valid unlike the claim that focus has transcendence up more than watchman.

[sabresandiego]

Focus actually does have transcendence up more then watchman, although it may be a bug. The talent which is supposed to return you 10 centering from using transcendence actually gives you 10 centering per person you affect, including yourself. So if 2 or more people are affected by your transcendence, you can actually cast transcendence repeatedly every time it wears off, giving you infinite sprint. This is far more uptime then watchman.

[McDaniels]

Focus actually does have transcendence up more then watchman, although it may be a bug. The talent which is supposed to return you 10 centering from using transcendence actually gives you 10 centering per person you affect, including yourself. So if 2 or more people are affected by your transcendence, you can actually cast transcendence repeatedly every time it wears off, giving you infinite sprint. This is far more uptime then watchman.

 

K, that sounds like a bug though? Regardless my transcendence is 30% more potent which is probably better than even having 100% uptime. Having a much more effective transcendence in the situations when its really needed (the beginning of the game in particular) is probably more useful to the team than a less effective buff up 100% of the time.

[EasymodeX]

Our sweep doesn't crit ofr 8k btw, thats only guardians....

 

Read more closely. Try using sweep on a player who is being guarded. The tank will take 8k. It's pretty entertaining.

 

 

I'm healing for 2% every time a burn crits

 

1. You're healing for 2% minus Trauma plus Expertise.

2. You're not healing when an Ops/Smugg opens on you.

 

Healing is great, but it has its place and it is not a cure-all.

 

 

Watchman is a very good pvp spec, but overall focus is better.

 

Focus isn't 'better'. Focus does some things that Watchman can't, and Watchman can do some things that Focus can't.

 

Depends what your role in the group is, and what your group composition is.

 

 

I think that BioWare needs to sort out the ability delay, stuttering and lag before they worry about balancing us as one of the biggest things that cause me problems in warzones is when I start up an attack 3-4 times, have the animation reset with no error message because the server and my screen do not agree on where my opponent is. We seem to be affected by this issue more than just about any other class.

 

This.

 

The #1 Sent/Mara problem is the UI-client-server trifecta of "why is a well-funded MMO developer failing at this in 2012?"

 

 

I build centering twice as fast as normal.

 

Given that all specs should have defensive forms, and you get bonus Centering for kills, you build Centering maybe ~40-80% faster than normal. Not 100% faster.

 

 

I consistently heal for over 75k in warzones, and about 15 to 25% of the time I heal for over 100k.

 

I consistently heal for 40-50k in Warzones, thanks to my Rakata Winpac.

 

 

I'm pretty confident that I do more overall damage than a very good focus player could 90% of the time.

 

Dunno, I'm pretty confident that a single target spec will pull less overall damage than a spec with a massive AOE. Hmm.

 

 

Regardless my transcendence is 30% more potent which is probably better than even having 100% uptime.

 

Rationalize much? Just admit you were ignorant with a little class.

 

Also: "Further increases your movement speed by 15% while Predation is active."

 

It's probably worth verifying that the +30% affects your group, or not.

[MBirkhofer]

Pretty sure watchman trans is party as well.

[RamzaBehoulve]

K, that sounds like a bug though? Regardless my transcendence is 30% more potent which is probably better than even having 100% uptime. Having a much more effective transcendence in the situations when its really needed (the beginning of the game in particular) is probably more useful to the team than a less effective buff up 100% of the time.

 

It's not a bug, it's a feature to encourage grouping.

[McDaniels]

The faster transcendence does affect my whole group...

 

How am I rationalizing? I'm using my head... Would you rather have a 30% additional speed when it's truly necessary and important, or have a less potent buff all of the time?

 

I don't see how it's that hard to grasp.

 

Also put up your best focus numbers if you don't believe me. Even though my damage is better effective damage whereas a lot of focuses damage is just healed through and pointless, I still bet I do more overall.

 

I like how you're calling me ignorant but you're basing your argument off of the tooltip when you clearly haven't used or tested the ability... It's really cute.

Edited January 12, 2012 by McDaniels