Threefiddie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Geez, what a bunch of whiny babies. You got a detailed, reasonable response to the issue and still you complain and threaten to cancel your sub. I like high-resolution graphics options as much as anyone, but I'm not going to throw a fit when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they're absent for general gameplay. Here's a thought: they don't care what *your* particular thought is on whether or not your "beastly" machine can handle it or not. They have a lot more data on the issue than you and they decided it was in the best interest to use texture atlasing. Deal with it, or go ahead and cancel, don't let the door hit you and all that. You really think they deliberately removed something that worked just hunky dory for what? To piss their customers off? No, they removed the option because they had good reason to believe it would negatively impact most customers. I totally agree that there are issues negatively affecting performance and some other issues that need clearing up, and they should look into ways to implement the better textures while not negatively affecting customer experience. Luckily, as Reid said, they are already doing so? What more do you want? Instant gratifacation? Good luck with that. Anyway, the textures in-game look pretty good even by today's standards, as long as you're not comparing it to Crysis or something completely ludicrous like that. Some of the screenshots you guys are posting have textures that I have never seen and I think there's an issue with low-res textures sneaking in when the medium-level ones should be there. oh please wow's shoulder pads have more textures in them than an entire suit of armor in swtorr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perderedeus Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Also, I'm sick of the "Its an MMO" excuse being bantied around as if its acceptable to ship a broken, half-implemented product for a premium price. "Its an MMO" does not equate to "Its a POS" Come back when you've actually played a real POS MMO. If you haven't slogged through Age of Conan at launch, you have no room to talk, my friend. That game... you want to talk about unfinished and glitchy, wooo boy. After leaving Tortuga, the game fell apart -- the story, the mechanics, the content. Everything. I remember months of patches coming out of Funcom where 1 problem would be fixed and 3 more would be created. Content that was so poorly designed or simply unitemized... dungeons that had glitchy bosses that did not even drop loot, quests that flat out broke down. Glitches that would vanish during one patch... only to crop up 3 months down the road again. When it looked good, it looked good... but it played like a bargain bin game. Plain and simple. Their coding and testing reeked of "half baked" in every way, where the norm was "broken abilities" and "crashes to desktop" for months upon months -- who knows if they ever fully cleaned it up. This "graphics flap" here is tame by comparison. Tame. "We were promised Doom 3 and got Doom 1." LOL. Never did I look at a promo shot for this game and say "wow, look at that, it looks like Doom 3, so detailed and atmospheric, so good! This'll be like Crysis or RAGE, but an MMO!" You folks are amazing, I swear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyarc Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Even Smedley never said stuff that was as stupid as what was in Reid's post. Few days ago I would never imagine to agree with such post. Funny how things can change :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrax Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) You graphics hard-on folks are too much. Do you also play the lottery for the quality of the printed tickets? Come on. Fact is, the "other leading MMO" right now is a hell of a lot uglier than SWTOR. Or have we forgotten how textures still stretch strangely across a male Blood Elf's chest, or how female Trolls still refuse to blink their eyes (7 years now), or the sort of clipping you get between limbs and body during certain animations... say nothing of the environment textures there... in that "other game" ... I also enjoy seeing the EQ comparison screenshots here... where people are so focused on the texture on a character's belt, but completely ignore how ugly, bland, dark and uninteresting the blocky background architecture and texturing both are. Another case of not seeing the forest for the trees. If you simply cannot have fun playing this game because "the textures on my character could be sharper" then don't let the door hit you on the way out. It has been proven with pictures in this thread that WoW actually has better textures on it's character models than SWTOR does. That said SWTOR does have better backgrounds and scenery, but is it right that a game as old as WoW should have better character model graphics than a 2011/2012 game? Edit: Here is that proof http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r277/UnruheEndlos/TORWOWComparison.jpg Edited January 11, 2012 by Mandrax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daMarek Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Here is my screenshot contribution, my poor poor trooper . Trooper McBlurry Hey what are you complaining about, the door handle in the back looks beautiful at a distance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caonimah Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Geez, what a bunch of whiny babies. "I feel that its necessary to create a huge effort post to justify the actions of a multi million (billion?) dollar company that cant do what every other MMO in the market seems to be capable of doing!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriDaDimon Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I just wanted to add my voice to those who claim to be unhappy with these developments. I feel like I've been let down by Bioware now. The problem is, I think I'm being misled, and that's broken my trust. In each and every case previously, we've had spot on feedback for problems, community engagement and a resolution. However in this case, I don't think the response was honest. This is why : 1) It takes 3 seconds to tell the truth, it takes 3 days to make up a story. 2) To be told that adding hi-res graphics is a huge amount of work, concerns me, this is 2012 and high resolution graphics are assured, why on earth have we not got them. 3) I feel like the community are being treated as stupid regarding the 'bug' on the pulldown option. Making unpopular choices is always made easier by being truthful. I think the graphics got cut due to performance concerns after Bioware heard the outcry that this game would seem like a single player game. They upped the volume of players that can play on each server, but at the same time had to dumb down the graphics. The overall solution is awkward, annoying and I feel like I'm being penalized for investing in my gaming hobby, because someone else chooses to run SWTOR on a 8 year old Dell laptop. An official apology and emergency community action is needed here. I hate being misled like this, in the marketing material, even in beta. Why did you even try and invent a story to explain this, the people who spent upwards of $50 wanted this game to be a success and work with you to enjoy it, but you've alienated most of your player base through a very poor management decision to make an excuse, and leave the community feeling rightly upset. I reject the explanation of a bug in the UI, please give us the real reason behind the change to remove high resolution textures and give us a timeline for a fix. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightblaster Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It bothers me that they went with Hero Engine, which was an unproven third-party engine, instead of their own. It bothers me that after choosing to build the game around the Hero Engine, and dealing with all its limitations, they created a level of texture detail that could not be used during normal gameplay on the live servers - only during very carefully crafted cutscenes. This has to be the culprit. If it is, it may very well go down in gaming history as one of the level worst decisions ever made when planning a video game of any type, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeblesTV Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 We want graphics options. We don't want how our game looks decided for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarinth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Think of it as body paint. Now its sexier! He'd be a pretty damn poor body paint artist then. I'd demand my money back. Edited January 11, 2012 by Amarinth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezel Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 3) I feel like the community are being treated as stupid regarding the 'bug' on the pulldown option. Daaaaaaaaaa I beez stoopidd GGeorje. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GumBoil Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm not sure I care any more Most people know it's a dodgy engine what is baffling is that things seem to be deteriorating compared to the preview 'betas'. Such a shame as broadly speaking BW have done a reasonable job considering the technology they chose to build on. Arguably it's not good enough. Having said that I find things like ability delay more of a thorn in the side, but it all comes down to a poor engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonameperson Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So he lied to us all of these time? Sugar-coated it with some technical explanations??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnac_fett Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Geez, what a bunch of whiny babies. You got a detailed, reasonable response to the issue and still you complain and threaten to cancel your sub. "We created a third texture detail setting that the third-party engine we contracted to build our game with cannot handle except for during cutscenes. We cannot let you use this higher texture detail setting because the game would become unplayable, even on super high-end machines. However, we are going to continue using these higher-detail textures for our promotional videos and screenshots of gameplay, including combat and exploration." ^ Reasonable Response ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamant Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I will ask the original poster to put up my idea. I understand that most of you are very upset and I can't say I don't blame you. But, I think we should try to come up with constructive ideas that maybe Bioware will go along with as "small" steps. The idea of having the "option" (It's all about options) of displaying just your player character in high resolution at all times can work really well. Though, it is up to Bioware if they want or are able to do this change. It would keep the load down and make most people involved happy. I know for me personally I would enjoy the game alot more just having my character on high. I hope this all gets sorted out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulimir Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I just read this post and all I can say is OMG! I understand why players with high-end PCs are upset. The response from Bioware seems logical and quite a bit techincal but for those of us that understand how game engines work, the explanation on how the rendering process works did not accomplish anything except trying to dangle shining things in front of people. From the explanation given, it looks like at one point high-res existed in BETA, then in retail it was taken out, but highres is used during cinematics, but not during gameplay, but it is going to take time and a lot of work to implement a feature that allows highres during gameplay--and I hope you are all following me on the way I'm saying this--even though the highres feature is ALREADY IN THE GAME (the cinematics use it) and it is a matter of simply connecting the event of selecting high-res in the preferences with the variable that I imagine is being used for the class which the render engine is based upon so that all of the objects created are rendered in high-res. Now if they wanted to limit things a bit, fine, make it so just the characters are high-res but the rest of the world remains at the normal gameplay-res it is set to now. That's a compromise that requires NOT a lot of work and NOT a lot of money. The code is already sitting there and the high-res textures are already available because the cinematics already use them. What I read was a lot of going in circles with the explanation but not coming close to just admitting it was a bad choice. What surprises me most, and for those that are mature enough and inquisitive enough to discover, is why hasn't anyone begun a petition and filed a complaint against Bioware in the State of California, where its main office resides, for false advertising. Cinematics aside, some of the gameplay demos were done with high-res turned on and some turned off--the difference between the two is clear. If this problem bugs people so much, take action. Forums really aren't going to get much done at this point. Count the replies. Posting isn't going to fix the problems. Not for something like this. -Faulimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyheadRamson Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Someone contact Edelson McGuire the firm that handled the last suit against EA for marketing lies. Whoever can reach and contact Edelson McGuire should do it asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeblesTV Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6681045551_38ab752b7b_b.jpg Background looks crisp and amazing. Armor looks like arse. It's like someone shooped this character in here from Asheron's Call Edited January 11, 2012 by BeeblesTV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xreasonz Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Geez, what a bunch of whiny babies. You got a detailed, reasonable response to the issue and still you complain and threaten to cancel your sub. I like high-resolution graphics options as much as anyone, but I'm not going to throw a fit when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they're absent for general gameplay. Here's a thought: they don't care what *your* particular thought is on whether or not your "beastly" machine can handle it or not. They have a lot more data on the issue than you and they decided it was in the best interest to use texture atlasing. Deal with it, or go ahead and cancel, don't let the door hit you and all that. You really think they deliberately removed something that worked just hunky dory for what? To piss their customers off? No, they removed the option because they had good reason to believe it would negatively impact most customers. I totally agree that there are issues negatively affecting performance and some other issues that need clearing up, and they should look into ways to implement the better textures while not negatively affecting customer experience. Luckily, as Reid said, they are already doing so? What more do you want? Instant gratifacation? Good luck with that. Anyway, the textures in-game look pretty good even by today's standards, as long as you're not comparing it to Crysis or something completely ludicrous like that. Some of the screenshots you guys are posting have textures that I have never seen and I think there's an issue with low-res textures sneaking in when the medium-level ones should be there. a reasonable explanation? really? "its a MMO so its normal?" gimme a break and thank "god" its not running on the Crytek engine, it would be much worse then now DDO with High res client and dx10-11 Elements, is running just fine EVEN when ther loads of people around. wow => 25 man raid, spelleffect going everywhere, Full details, no issues Pls dont try to "justify" his poor post. All of it is fishy and you know it Investigating and Design plan? A design plan is carfully looked at, in steps with all the design teams, so surely this is not needed for "investigation", its just Shoddy implementation, or lack off to be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PellonSW Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Geez, what a bunch of whiny babies. You got a detailed, reasonable response to the issue and still you complain and threaten to cancel your sub. Except it wasn't a reasonable response and it took them days to finally admit what has been apparently going on since release? Go ahead and leave the wool over your eyes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonhart Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellthar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The Heavy server fleets are still busy. I'm on Harbinger and yes there are around 250 - 300 people in the fleet in prime time there. I'm also on the Defenestrator as an alternate server and I was the only person at Carrick Station last night. Harbinger used to have a queue every day, starting as early as noon CST and queuing up to 1500 - 2000 people by prime time. No queues now, haven't seen one in at least a week that I can remember if not more. People are already exiting...silently. For every person here on this forum thats upset with whatever aspect of this game and they're actually saying something about it, there are another 1000 players that don't bother with game forums and simply cancel and stop logging in. You can argue with me if you want but what you think is immaterial and I can guarantee you that BW's metrics department is probably already starting to send slightly alarmed emails to operations in regards to it. The drops are there, they are noticeable if you simply look. And as stated what you, or I, think, is irrelevant because there is already a department at BW Austin thats paid to crap their pants over it, and they likely already are. I'm not arguing with you, I was telling you about my server and how many people is on, in reponse to your comments. The servers seem very active to me, there is very few NA light servers anymore at prime time (there was 1 last night, I checked). I know they could have tweaked the values or caps, but that is all conspiracy theory. Your right that what both of us say is irrelevant, as neither one of us have anything but opinion without data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriDaDimon Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 OMG they are deleting my posts that prove this was false advertising by their own statements. We have what we advertised, we couldnt make it work, so were remoiving the option, is what we just got told!!! And we printed the game came with 30 days playtime, but forced peopel to make a subscription afetrwards afetr not tellign them they ahd to, sayign 30 days came with buyign the game. THATS 2 FLAT OUT FALSE ADVERTISEMENTS. like it or not, keep deleting my posts saying it or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septusmortis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Geez, what a bunch of whiny babies. You got a detailed, reasonable response to the issue and still you complain and threaten to cancel your sub. I like high-resolution graphics options as much as anyone, but I'm not going to throw a fit when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they're absent for general gameplay. Here's a thought: they don't care what *your* particular thought is on whether or not your "beastly" machine can handle it or not. They have a lot more data on the issue than you and they decided it was in the best interest to use texture atlasing. Deal with it, or go ahead and cancel, don't let the door hit you and all that. You really think they deliberately removed something that worked just hunky dory for what? To piss their customers off? No, they removed the option because they had good reason to believe it would negatively impact most customers. I totally agree that there are issues negatively affecting performance and some other issues that need clearing up, and they should look into ways to implement the better textures while not negatively affecting customer experience. Luckily, as Reid said, they are already doing so? What more do you want? Instant gratifacation? Good luck with that. Anyway, the textures in-game look pretty good even by today's standards, as long as you're not comparing it to Crysis or something completely ludicrous like that. Some of the screenshots you guys are posting have textures that I have never seen and I think there's an issue with low-res textures sneaking in when the medium-level ones should be there. your misjudging the anger here I would advise you to back off... People are VERY angry... its not about just a fanboy argument anymore people have a direct beef with the developer which needs to run its course... its in defensable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnac_fett Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Some of you may remember a thread I made on the beta forums, called "Why you can't have latest cutting edge graphics in a MMO". This was explaining the exact same thing Stephen has written here. I remember a lot of people denying it, saying "yes it is possible you dumb", even flaming at times. Some other even trying to act like technical directors, inventing fancy arguments based on a mixed bag of technical nonsense. And now a large rictus is drawn upon my face. I hope people will start to do their homework about technical details and difficulties depending on the game genre, before compulsively hitting that Reply button. We're not asking for the latest cutting-edge graphics in TOR. We're asking for something on par with other current MMOs such as World of Warcraft, RIFT, Aion, or Lord of the Rings Online. Edited January 11, 2012 by Meluna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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