Developer Post: Warrior Classes

[xO_om]

Thought you guys might find this informative. I've bolded the part that mentions Marauders specifically.

 

Hi guys,

 

There are many different subjects discussed in this thread and I would like to take the opportunity to give you some information on the topics at hand.

 

First off, we currently have no indication that any class needs a huge buff. Class balance is defined by the interaction between classes and changes we make to one class will, inevitably, move the balance towards or from other classes. Our data and testing currently indicates that the Juggernaut and Guardian AC could use some buffing up in two areas where we see them underperforming against our expectations.

 

Here are some of the things we're planning to roll out in the short term specifically regarding Sith Warriors and Jedi Knights :

 

• Mobility/Anti Kiting (PvP) – We agree with the sentiment voiced by the community that some Guardians and Juggernauts have to work harder than other classes to stay within effective combat range, putting them at a disadvantage. We intend to address this in an upcoming patch where, as a first step, Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap, granting for more reliable in combat pursuit capabilities to the Advanced Class. Further changes will be made if necessary.
   
  
• DPS spec survivability (PvP and PvE) – The DPS specs on Guardian and Juggernaut are performing to our expectations when it comes to the ability to create damage, especially of the burst variety. However their survivability is lagging behind our expectations, especially in the later game, and we are going to start addressing that particular issue in an upcoming patch.

Our attention to the class obviously won't stop here. Balancing MMOs is a never ending endeavor and we're in for the long haul. For example, we are certainly aware that the Marauder and Sentinel are very gameplay intensive classes with some of the most complex rotations in the game. While we are currently looking at quality of life and usability improvements to increase the class' playability without compromising the unique aspects of the class, we don't have anything specific to announce just yet. We do however anticipate that some of the combat responsiveness improvements (AKA 'ability delay' - more on that here) being worked on by our engineering team will specifically aid both Marauder and Sentinel.

 

In regards to PvE balance, any place in the game where our data shows significant issues with the balance tuning for one or more classes or specs are of course also being looked at.

 

For example, Jedi Knights will be pleased to hear that we are working on tuning the final mission in their class chain to provide a better, more fun and more reliably solvable challenge (see a post from another member of my team here). Currently a large percentage of players bring a friend to solve this mission, which, while social and often more fun, is not in line with our stated goal of allowing players to progress solo through their class arc if they desire to do so. We're also looking at some companions with a critical eye to improve their viability for certain role/companion combinations.

 

I would also like to give you some general understanding about approach to class balancing and how you can aid us with your feedback:

 

• Now that we're out of the first few weeks of launch madness, you will see class and combat balance issues addressed with increased frequency. Larger scale gameplay changes and features are more likely to coincide with major content releases, but smaller scale changes and improvements can be expected to become part of our regular update schedule.
   
  
• Statements that we hate a specific class or faction, or that we intentionally underbalance certain classes to make it less popular are conspiracy theory territory. We have nothing to gain from such an approach – we want players to pick the class and faction they want to play and have confidence that they are able to perform their chosen role in the game. Anything that comes in the way of that goal is considered a balance issue for us.
   
  
• We make our balancing decisions based on a combination of internal and external testing and metrics. We don't make decisions based on who is the loudest on the forums. Community feedback is valuable in bringing issues to our attention and even to highlight possible solutions, which means that well written, constructive posts are the most effective way to communicate your wishes and feedback to us, rather than petitions and calls to nerf specific classes.
   
  
• Please understand that balance issues during the leveling process are different than issues at level 50 and are handled in different ways. If you feel your class has issues during your journey to 50, especially communicate the level range and area of the game where you are experiencing issues to aid our investigations. Player versus Player situations in during the leveling process are not always balanced at every level (a mathematical impossibility), but we are always willing to investigate.
   
  
• Just because we haven't mentioned the specific issue close to your heart in a post (such as the one above) doesn't mean we are unaware of it or that we don't want to address it. It would be impractical for us to comment on all investigations currently in the pipeline. That said, we definitely want to take a more open approach in regards to upcoming class changes.

 

Finally, I'd like to acknowledge, again, that we do understand that there is a desire for players to get more detailed information what happens to their character in combat. We agree with those requests and are working on various ways to, optionally, get more detailed data on your combat performance.

 

Thanks for your feedback!

 

-- Georg

[Draexnael]

If I'm honest I worry reading that - Marauder suffers from the exact same issues as Jugg (who have more in their arsenal in terms of gap closing and CC compared to our class) Yet we are ignored.

[texoc]

mhmm...

 

well... Juggs/Guards can:

 

- still dps in soresu ( huge defense buff)

- have a 4 second anti stun every leap (every 15 seconds)

- have guardian leap

- can spec into a free perma spammable aoe snare

- have force push

- have 30m range saberthrow

- their set bonuses OP compared to what the marauder gets

- are more viable in groups ( guards, taunts)

 

basically i would like to see force push/saberthrow for the marauder

 

+ force pull for both

[UrgentFury]

If I'm honest I worry reading that - Marauder suffers from the exact same issues as Jugg (who have more in their arsenal in terms of gap closing and CC compared to our class) Yet we are ignored.

 

I agree. That post didn't do anything to adress marauder issues. He also didn't give any real answers. Typical of bioware though. I'm so tired hearing about their metrics. Do any of them actually play the class ? Doesn't seem like it to me considering how poorly thought out they were. Beta players didn't like it and now the live community prefers anything but us.

[Foxcolt]

While we are currently looking at quality of life and usability improvements to increase the class' playability without compromising the unique aspects of the class,

 

What scares me is that it almost seems as though the devs are hinting that they want to make the class easier to play.

 

That is the exact opposite of what we want..we don't want to take away from the complexity of our class!

[Ridisi]

What scares me is that it almost seems as though the devs are hinting that they want to make the class easier to play.

 

That is the exact opposite of what we want..we don't want to take away from the complexity of our class!

 

QOL issues does not equal ease of play. He even states in there that they want the uniqueness of the class.

[Tycoon]

I really feel the main reason marauder feels UP is the ability delay. The only time when im not top three in the damage charts is when my abilities fail to activate. Edited January 11, 2012 by Tycoon

[BarcodeX]

Funny how it's learning more towards Juggs. I'm surprised NOTHING was said about Pommel Strike and Savage Kick...those are the main things I care about in PvP. Though, it IS nice to know they are working on Sith Warriors though. I'm sure Pommel and Savage will pop up soon.

 

But I LOVE how they said that Marauders have one of the most complex rotations in PvP. Makes me feel all fluffy inside :3

Edited January 11, 2012 by BarcodeX

[Sayc]

I really feel the main reason marauder feels UP is the ability delay. The only time when im not top three in the damage charts is when my abilities fail to activate.

 

This.

 

Marauders don't have issues getting kited. If you're getting kited on a marauder, you're doing something wrong.

[Takarazuka]

Yea the ability delay is aggravating beyond belief. Usually happens with Ravage.... it will show the animation and the GCD will trigger, but no damage and Ravage resets. Throws me off a bit bc then I have already used Gore and it's on CD so my Ravage doesn't hit nearly as hard after that.

[Maxxacre]

Yeah... Marauders aren't really getting kited. At least not the good ones. But I am concerned with the implications of upping the survivability of the Juggernaut in DPS spec, because this leaves Marauders at more of a disadvantage. Will adding more survivability to DPS specced Juggernauts create more of a gap between them and Marauders? Will the Marauder have less of a niche to fill if that happens? Only time will tell.

[EasymodeX]

Yes, that is the more concerning part.

 

Currently the breakdown is like this:

 

1. Marauders have better personal survivability and defense.

2. Juggernauts have better group support (AOE snare, taunts, intercede et al).

 

If Juggernauts gain durability and defense, then Marauders are effectively shafted.

 

 

I called it in beta. Just saying.

[Takarazuka]

Yes, that is the more concerning part.

 

Currently the breakdown is like this:

 

1. Marauders have better personal survivability and defense.

2. Juggernauts have better group support (AOE snare, taunts, intercede et al).

 

If Juggernauts gain durability and defense, then Marauders are effectively shafted.

 

 

I called it in beta. Just saying.

 

EDIT: Nvm..... missed the post above.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Takarazuka

[Maxxacre]

Well I think what he's saying is that they're actually doing really good damage in PvP right now as it is, considering the survivability they have. It's really got to be one or the other, unless you're going to buff Marauders too. If Juggernauts have similar DPS to Marauders, but they also have more survivability AND better group utility (as the above poster mentioned) then they will have such an advantage over the Marauder that there really won't be a need for a Marauder at all.

[Avigatorx]

What scares me is that it almost seems as though the devs are hinting that they want to make the class easier to play.

 

That is the exact opposite of what we want..we don't want to take away from the complexity of our class!

 

Quoted For Great Truth.

 

I don't want them to make us easier to play.

 

I would like to see them recognize that if we are the "glass cannon", then we should far out-dps other classes that are NOT "glass cannons."

 

Or in the remote alternative, give us more survivability to keep us on par with otehr classes.

 

I can't help but feel that we are an afterthought class. no gear on the darkside vendor, in fact, most vendors have our gear at the very bottom of the list, as if it was a throw in. Why is there only 1 might armoring per vendor, whereas every other type has 2 ?

[Noth]

Quoted For Great Truth.

 

I don't want them to make us easier to play.

 

I would like to see them recognize that if we are the "glass cannon", then we should far out-dps other classes that are NOT "glass cannons."

 

Or in the remote alternative, give us more survivability to keep us on par with otehr classes.

 

I can't help but feel that we are an afterthought class. no gear on the darkside vendor, in fact, most vendors have our gear at the very bottom of the list, as if it was a throw in. Why is there only 1 might armoring per vendor, whereas every other type has 2 ?

 

glass cannon yet you have more personal survivability than a dps jugg using their tree's desired dps stance.

[EasymodeX]

Yes, the Marauder is not a "glass cannon". People need to mentally step way the hell away from that notion.

 

If you feel like glass, then you are severely undergeared and/or bad.

[VagrantWhisper]

+ force pull for both

 

I SOOO want this!

 

And to top if off, I want the marauder to yell "Get over here!"* right before unleashing a massive Carnage burst on the suddenly right next to me sod ...

 

* Mortal Kombat reference for those who don't know.

[CVSiN]

glass cannon yet you have more personal survivability than a dps jugg using their tree's desired dps stance.

 

Youre crazy..

we are pathetic if our cooldowns are burned which is 90% of the time..

 

in PVP you burn all your cooldowns in 2 secs and are meat until they come back up..

 

we die in 3 hits when those are down.. when other classes sit and laugh at us as we beat on them and either heal/shield through our damage and interrupts..

 

when PVP is mass fighting we are meat.. unlike many other classes since they are range they have much less reliance on cooldowns..

 

GZ is full of it.

[Zakka]

Yes, that is the more concerning part.

 

Currently the breakdown is like this:

 

1. Marauders have better personal survivability and defense.

2. Juggernauts have better group support (AOE snare, taunts, intercede et al).

 

If Juggernauts gain durability and defense, then Marauders are effectively shafted.

 

 

I called it in beta. Just saying.

 

Dunno about you, but the damage the marauders in my guild can do is pretty impressive.

 

I feel however that as a Juggernaut immortal spec that I take a great deal of damage in PVP.

 

Still would prefer a force pull then a push...or both on the same cool down so you can pick or choose.

[Maxxacre]

Marauder has awesome survivability when cooldowns are up... but when they're not, it's definitely more like a glass cannon than not. In an ideal situation, like a duel or a 1v1 in the open world, there's a lot of survivability because you have all your tools. In sustained combat, once you pop your defensive CDs you've got to keep trucking without them, and you really are pretty squishy in that case comparatively.

 

That doesn't mean you can't do anything though. You have Fury abilities such as Predation that you can pop very regularly, and when all else fails your Force Camouflage is on a relatively short cooldown and you should really be able to use it every fight. You can use it to drop out of the fight and re-initiate when your enemies have acquired other targets and are focusing them down... or just flat out run if you're alone and re-engage when your team arrives.

 

Bascially... the Marauder has decent survivability... but it's ACTIVE survivability rather than passive, meaning it relies on cooldowns and player skill/judgment to be utilized effectively. If you don't use your tools right, then you're toast... if you do, then there's no problem.

[Sharpiie]

Pretty sure the dev's play BH, OP, and sorc.

[Treerootz]

Quoted For Great Truth.

 

I don't want them to make us easier to play.

 

I would like to see them recognize that if we are the "glass cannon", then we should far out-dps other classes that are NOT "glass cannons."

 

Or in the remote alternative, give us more survivability to keep us on par with otehr classes.

 

I can't help but feel that we are an afterthought class. no gear on the darkside vendor, in fact, most vendors have our gear at the very bottom of the list, as if it was a throw in. Why is there only 1 might armoring per vendor, whereas every other type has 2 ?

 

Becase what other stats would be on the second might?? The other 2 are for jugg dps/tank.. You could always use those too.. Theres no reason for 2 mights lol

[ritualuseoffire]

i dont see any real buff for marauder\senti, another fail of the Bioware :facepalm:

[Fluxje]

Becase what other stats would be on the second might?? The other 2 are for jugg dps/tank.. You could always use those too.. Theres no reason for 2 mights lol

 

You either dont play a marauder or you did not realise yet that juggernauts wear heavy armor, and marauders medium.

 

God I wish I could wear their PvP-set for the setbonuses alone