duffdufus Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 i dont think we need a knockback but we could use a force pull am i right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Who needs a knockback when they are mezzed for 6 seconds? Also, Disable Droid for 1m plzkthx. With an additional: wow, you're going to somehow equate a generic damage channel ability with a 1 minute miss debuff? Stop reaching so hard bro. If you want lightning and backstab so bad, roll an Assassin? It's not like it was any secret that they had those abilities. I already have an assassin. It was YOUR argument to say tell me assassins don't have marauder skills, Mr. Straw Man. I just copied your tactics and you cried foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxcolt Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 i dont think we need a knockback but we could use a force pull am i right? +1 That would be nice..but I could see that easily getting very OP unless done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I already have an assassin. It was YOUR argument to say tell me assassins don't have marauder skills, Mr. Straw Man. I just copied your tactics and you cried foul. You "copied" my "tactics" rather poorly. You see, the context of the discussion, which you set, was defensive cooldowns. Therefore, the game was to cite the litany of defensive cooldowns a Marauder had access to, since you seemed to be so envious of an Assassin's survivability. However, randomly injecting attack abilities is more than a little incoherent. Don't be mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxacre Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I used to main a Sorcerer. Then I mained a Jedi Shadow. Then I leveled up a Mercenary and a Marauder to about 20 and decided to keep rolling with the Marauder, which is what I would now consider my "main." So out of all the classes I've played on live (not counting beta) the Marauder is the only one that doesn't have a knockback... and I have to say, I miss it more than anything else. It was really hard to play a non-stealth class after playing the Shadow, because it makes questing easy mode, and you can do so much in warzones... but I got over that fast. But it's the knockback that I've never got over... so in a sense I agree with the OP. You don't need a knockback as a melee really... yet I found it immensely useful on my Shadow. It's just a very versatile skill for PvP, considering the types of warzones and open world environments you encounter. But I think that Marauders having a knockback might be a little OP... unless it was just Force Push, and was single target only. An AOE knockback for Marauders is like overkill. I just don't think we NEED it. It would be nice... but not really a necessary tool for the class. With that being said though, if they do make the changes to Juggernaut that they're talking about... I think it would be fair to give Marauders Force Push. Just make it a SW ability instead of a Juggernaut ability at level 26. Heck, you can even take away Pommel Strike and give us Force Push in lieu of that... Actually... you can take away Pommel Strike and give me nothing for all I care. Screw that ability... lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfighter Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Who needs a knockback when they are mezzed for 6 seconds? what are you talking about, you can't push people off ledges or in flames and insta kill them with that skill (which is only good to escape since the stun is canceled when the target takes damage) So yeah, it's not related plus it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) You "copied" my "tactics" rather poorly. You see, the context of the discussion, which you set, was defensive cooldowns. Therefore, the game was to cite the litany of defensive cooldowns a Marauder had access to, since you seemed to be so envious of an Assassin's survivability. However, randomly injecting attack abilities is more than a little incoherent. Don't be mad. /chuckle Sure, buddy. Don't get pissy just because you don't like your broken arguments turned on you. what are you talking about, you can't push people off ledges or in flames and insta kill them with that skill (which is only good to escape since the stun is canceled when the target takes damage) So yeah, it's not related plus it sucks. Exactly. Edited January 11, 2012 by mrHaterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sorry you think I was upset. I was honestly flabbergasted that you thought you made an actual argument. That's like me coming back with "Assassins get a doublebladed saber AND an offhand". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getdownsb Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 With an additional: wow, you're going to somehow equate a generic damage channel ability with a 1 minute miss debuff. 4 second debuff, only effects melee attacks not force or tech attacks, 1 minute cooldown. Yeah, it's really epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sorry you think I was upset. I was honestly flabbergasted that you thought you made an actual argument. That's like me coming back with "Assassins get a doublebladed saber AND an offhand". Except it's not. Be a sport and look up "straw man argument." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoritomo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have to admit, because of the way attacks are classified, i believe obfuscate is not as good as it seems. That said, i don't think marauders need a knockback. They do need some antikb mechanic - a second gap closer or an ability to resist. Also, the 15 percent movement speed buff to ataru needs to be available to all stances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieVega Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 So anyone who has played a marauder in Huttball, Voidstar, The False Emperor FP should be able to relate to this. We need a knockback! I had a thread or two about this pre-launch and everyone told me, "don't worry", "It will be fine", "You will have abilities to balance it"... Well the game is here and it isn't balanced. Force charge to a target, get insta knocked down. Trying to cross a bridge in the Voidstar, nope 1 shotted by a knockback. World PvPing near a ledge, 1 shotted. This is not ok! The game needs to be balanced. Allowing some classes 1-shot capability and others not makes no sense to me. I agree our DPS seems to be pretty well balanced with a sorcs and BHs, but these classes also get sprints, CC, knockback... where is the balance? We have force charge you say? So does the jugg, they have comparable DPS and a knockback. Sorcs have ranged DPS, CC, sprints, pulls, knockbacks... they are like the ultimate utility class. Again, where is the balance? The real thorn in my side was when I completed The False Emperor FP. GUESS WHAT! You need a knock back to complete it. I mean ***? Now we have gone from a minor PvP balance issue to an across the board PvE/PvP problem. I was litterally told to go stand in the corner at the end of the fight. Guess how often my guild mates 1-shot mobs off ledges in FPs? Almost every pull! Please Georg, balance us. I don't want to feel gimped for rolling a Marauder. Wow... i have never been one shotted by knockback, not once. That is just poor positioning on your part if it happens to you often. someone already said it... its hard enough to maneuver around the battlefield as a melee character without having abilities that move your opponents farther from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoritomo Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If you've never been killed by a knockback then i don't think you PvP in this game. Hell, i don't think you PvE either. Surprise mob knockback in colicoid wargames and false emp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AterEversor Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I have to admit, because of the way attacks are classified, i believe obfuscate is not as good as it seems. That said, i don't think marauders need a knockback. They do need some antikb mechanic - a second gap closer or an ability to resist. Also, the 15 percent movement speed buff to ataru needs to be available to all stances. F*** that. That is all we get as carnage!! haha. If were going to do that we need to give ataru's beserk buff something the whole party can enjoy, like juyo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadinaxx Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It's a perfectly valid lore reason, this is one of the first-learned abilities of every jedi/sith. Have you not seen it used in a lot of the marauder cutscenes in-game? Staying on your target does suck with all the cc spammed at us but you wouldn't use a knockback on your main target unless it was to blast them over a bottomless put. Otherwise you'd use it on a secondary target to buy some breathing room/interrupt an ability. Jugg can have knockback, I dont want knockback, it's something that a marauder just shouldnt have, unless it's a disarm. Perhaps more closing abilities, or refresh charge on a kill that yeilds exp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetherod Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Throwing enemies away has a lot uses (like throw agent/gunslinger from their cover + force jump) but i think its unnecessary. I thing we just need some real stun even short or short immunity to stuns. Some speed burst after immobilizes and stuns would do the trick also. Edited January 12, 2012 by Aetherod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadinaxx Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Throwing enemies away has a lot uses (like throw agent/gunslinger from their cover + force jump) but i think its unnecessary. I thing we just need some real stun even short or short immunity to stuns. Some speed burst after immobilizes and stuns would do the trick also. Yea, the assasin sprint + immunity to CC thing is aggravating, mostly because we have nothing that can compare, I just grind my teeth when I am forced to RP walk to my objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilure Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 wait... devs are suggesting that juggs get a reset of CD on force charge when they force push. That to me is exactly what a marauder would do, only in the anni tree does force charge have 0m range, so if a target is too close to force charge it would make perfect sense to force push him into a wall(or off a ramp) and then jump to him, and it fits easily within the play style of all the marauder trees. Even if we were in melee range, force push+charge wouldn't keep us out of melee range. Furthermore, marauders are really good in 1v1 scenarios so, force pushing+force charging would be an excellent way to isolate your target from support. There is absolute a case to be made for us having a push or pull. Honestly, a lot of people are of the opinion that we have plenty of gap closers... which I've never understood... We have force charge, its cool down is decently long. We have predation, which requires 30 fury. If you are rage specced its practically perma. If you are rage specced you also get obliterate (except nearly all push backs are greater then 10m) so its really not much of a gap closer imo. If you carnage spec, then you can immobilize your target very effectively, but that doesn't mean much when you are immoblized 5-15 meters away. I personally generally don't have too much trouble staying on my target (in any spec), however, to argue that we have equal number of gap closers as range classes have seperators is imo flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Giving us Force Push gives us another interuppt and we already have plenty to lock out a caster for quite some time, i think we just need to make choke un chanelled, or a talent that does so. Edited January 12, 2012 by AcaciaDragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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