Private combat logs?

[Offended]

Nope. But it's going to help us progress through bosses. Have you never raided or something?

 

I don't think anyone that promotes the idea of "personal" combat log only or outright not having them, has never raided.

 

As a mage (pre-wotlk), paladin healer , DPS and tank (t-7,8 as healer, crusade as DPS and icc as tank), I always compared myself to my peers and looked at their rotations, numbers and thought to myself "how can I improve my gameplay".

 

If you don't have data on how other people are performing, how do you expect to improve your game play by looking at yourself only?

 

Do you look in the mirror every day and think "boy if i changed my hair i could look better", but at the same time, you're blind?

[Hairless]

Naw, you've read it wrong or not read it:

 

 

 

Here is the link if you need it: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443

 

The your bit at the bottom is in italics (in his post as quoting a post is always italic). Clear as day.

We agree with those requests and are working on various ways to, optionally, get more detailed data on your combat performance.

 

Where does it say anywhere that implies private combat log? Are you confusing "combat performance" with "combat log"? If so, that's lol.

 

It says they are working on VARIOUS WAYS to get more data on YOUR combat performance.

Common sense tells me this is just an optional, in-game personal damage meter.

 

I am too lazy to find the post but there's another official post by BW that confirmed full combat logs. It's already in the game. It has been since beta. It's just not activated.

[TItanten]

I don't think anyone that promotes the idea of "personal" combat log only or outright not having them, has never raided.

 

As a mage (pre-wotlk), paladin healer , DPS and tank (t-7,8 as healer, crusade as DPS and icc as tank), I always compared myself to my peers and looked at their rotations, numbers and thought to myself "how can I improve my gameplay".

 

If you don't have data on how other people are performing, how do you expect to improve your game play by looking at yourself only?

 

Do you look in the mirror every day and think "boy if i changed my hair i could look better", but at the same time, you're blind?

 

Are you serious?

 

You just freaking ask. That's it.

 

"Hey Bob, what's your dps in that spec?"

 

"Oh damn! I'll have to try that and see!"

[Airinya]

Where does it say anywhere that implies private combat log? Are you confusing "combat performance" with "combat log"? If so, that's lol.

 

It says they are working on VARIOUS WAYS to get more data on YOUR combat performance.

Common sense tells me this is just an optional, in-game personal damage meter.

 

I am too lazy to find the post but there's another official post by BW that confirmed full combat logs. It's already in the game. It has been since beta. It's just not activated.

 

Do you not understand that your is a possessive word?

[Hairless]

I've raided in EQ, EQOA, Final Fantasy XI, and WoW. Have you only raided in WoW, where you have your hand held like a carebear with large flashing words saying "MOVE NOW!" or something?

 

We are talking about combat logs here. There's another thread if you want to whine about what addons do in WoW.

 

lawl

[Airinya]

We are talking about combat logs here. There's another thread if you want to whine about what addons do in WoW.

 

lawl

 

You want access to combat logs so you can parse them into a meter - which would be an addon. As they are implementing it now they are allowing people to access their own personal combat information - however given the fact that you down understand the use/meaning of the word "your" I'm hardly surprised at your lacking understanding of the subject matter.

[Hairless]

Do you not understand that your is a possessive word?

 

Do you not understand that the BW post doesn't say anything about combat logs?

 

Combat performance is not the same as combat log.

Now, keep that in your mind and read the BW post again.

 

We are getting an optional, in-game damage meter sort of tool that tracks only YOUR combat performance. They are just giving everyone a personal Recount.

 

We are not getting combat log files that has only you in it. That's just utterly useless.

 

Full combat log support is already in the game and is coming. BW confirmed this.

[Offended]

Are you serious?

 

You just freaking ask. That's it.

 

"Hey Bob, what's your dps in that spec?"

 

"Oh damn! I'll have to try that and see!"

 

Ya.. so you never really did any theorycrafting or even comparing yourself to your fellow DPS.

 

In BC, in BT, i was exactly geared as another mage. Every gem enchant piece of gear, trinket, buff. everything.

 

The rotation was the same, the timing of our trinkets were the same. We were in the same group and always got the bloodlust. We always used the same food buff and consumables.

 

Our stats 99% of the time were identical, yet almost every fight he'd out dps me by anywhere from 100-200 dps.

 

Why was it? he simply was luckier with crits more than I was. We'd be within 1% or less with casts, dots, etc, but he would have a good 25% more crit than i did.

 

There's no way to see that without combat logs.

[Chyp]

Quite simply: a combat log parser and addons like WoW's boss mods are not even comparable. Boss mod addons in WoW give you things like boss ability timers and warning for basically everything dangerous in an encounter. A parser does nothing more than give you feedback on damage values after the fact.

 

Stop comparing them, it's absolute foolishness.

 

Edit: This isn't directed at anyone particularly, reading through the thread I keep reading this comparison again and again.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Chyp

[TItanten]

Lies, you are just horrible. He was better than you, face it. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

 

 

In all seriousness though. Such tightly tuned encounters like WoW are stupid. BT and Naxx were the eptiome of a waste of resources from a business standpoint.

 

And they said a combat log was coming. Relax. They just alluded to including a dps meter that was personal only.

[Hairless]

And they said a combat log was coming. Relax. They just alluded to including a dps meter that was personal only.

 

I don't know man. You try explaining that to the guy above you. I give up.

[TItanten]

I don't know man. You try explaining that to the guy above you. I give up.

 

You guys are arguing about the same thing. Really it's just semantics holding you both in the argument.

[Herbertllew]

It's very simple: Without access to detailed information about who did what to whom when, and what the result was, improving performance on PvE encounters is simply guesswork, and the validity of one's analysis becomes dependent on how good one is at guessing.

 

In real life, that's called being psychic and is generally held to be an unscientific way of determining truth from fiction.

 

I can see several courses of action:

 

1) Bioware does nothing, in effect telling players that PvE is a black box out of which you get information only through trial and error. Worst possible solution.

 

2) Bioware only includes access to individual performance logs, in which case groups that are interested in accurate group performance metrics must jump through the irritating hoop of consolidating 8 or 16 player logs to get an accurate timeline of events. That timeline could then be parsed by an external parser. Bad, because it imposes an artificial but ultimately only irritating barrier to group performance metrics.

 

3) BioWare provides information comparable to World of Warcraft, and players use external parsers to examine the data. Good outcome.

 

4) BioWare provides information and logs comparable to World of Warcraft, and supplements it with an in-game combat log parser, thereby establishing a baseline of what data they believe groups should have access to and the metrics they believe are important for completing content. External logs may or may not be made available. I believe that if the game provides an in-game group combat data parser AND provides access to group logs, that would be a groundbreaking step for the genre. Best possible outcome.

 

Unfortunately, the emphasis on the word "your" that we've all been parsing (pun intended) so closely indicates that BioWare stands, philosophically, somewhere between No. 1 and No. 2. Here's hoping they move a bit closer to No. 4.

 

As a guildie of mine put it:

 

"If they intend for this to be a group game, then the logs will need to show the group.

 

If they make a clear statement that they will only provide individual combat logs, I'll consider this a single player game and be done at 50."

[Setanian]

All of you people screaming about how having a combat log will ruin the game need to go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure because maybe a serious MMO isn't for you.

 

You're the one needing the extra help... Maybe this game is just too difficult for you and it's you who should head to the island?

[Kavell]

I can say that so far my guildies and I have had 0 need for a dps meter / recount or combat logs, but then again most of us never played WoW. We have played in DDO where meters were never mentioned or needed.

 

I can see if you would like to measure your own personal performance, for a bit of pride in yourself , but never as a stick to beat people with.

 

Now as a guild we usually have enough on for all of our raiding needs, so we never pug these things. However, I can see someone that may like the idea of combat logs to include/exclude pug raiders, but is hardly NEEDED.

 

and before I hear "you guys are not elite raiders", I have been on many a world first runs with my guildies in other games.

[Offended]

I can say that so far my guildies and I have had 0 need for a dps meter / recount or combat logs, but then again most of us never played WoW. We have played in DDO where meters were never mentioned or needed.

 

I can see if you would like to measure your own personal performance, for a bit of pride in yourself , but never as a stick to beat people with.

 

Now as a guild we usually have enough on for all of our raiding needs, so we never pug these things. However, I can see someone that may like the idea of combat logs to include/exclude pug raiders, but is hardly NEEDED.

 

and before I hear "you guys are not elite raiders", I have been on many a world first runs with my guildies in other games.

 

World firsts only counted in EQ and in WoW. No one cared about other games.

[Truga]

World firsts only counted in EQ and in WoW. No one cared about other games.

 

World firsts only mattered in space and the moon. No one cared about other events.

 

Am I doing this right?

[Truga]

1)Worst possible solution.

 

2)Bad, because it imposes an artificial but ultimately only irritating barrier to group performance metrics.

 

3) Good outcome.

 

4)Best possible outcome.

 

Sorry, but as much as we might want this to be true, this is still only opinion.