mSum Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I click my mouse and push buttons WAY better than all you all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is the best solution in my mind. Seeing how many people are opposed to metrics, there will clearly be a demand for groups who leave the meters off/private. Making off/private/public optional should make everyone happy. Groups that don't use meters should then get better loot as they are playing a more challenging game. I like that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I click my mouse and push buttons WAY better than all you all!!! An I have the log that proves it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I click my mouse and push buttons WAY better than all you all!!! I move little wooden pieces around way better than you! Stupid Kasparov and Fischer... I swing a piece of wood better than you! Stupid Babe Ruth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Groups that don't use meters should then get better loot as they are playing a more challenging game. I like that idea. I'm funding a study on the size of the average human ***** in the United States. I was going to have my staff use measuring tools, but I've decided to just ask everyone instead. Should be fine, right? ????? Edited January 11, 2012 by AlpsStranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Groups that don't use meters should then get better loot as they are playing a more challenging game. I like that idea. Also if you're pvp flagged. Nah seriously, you'd just go private and group with your friends. People would become even more clique-ish, and pug even less. Edited January 11, 2012 by Devorin_Sargothi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahana Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm funding a study on the size of the average human ***** in the United States. I was going to have my staff use measuring tools, but I've decided to just ask everyone instead. Should be fine, right? You'll find both sets of results severely lacking in any substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Right, FarmVille3D just like I said. They're going to remove even the remotest chance that someone can outperform someone else. How will this be different from a prettier( and hopefully less perverted ) Second Life? You are supposed to be working as a team to overcome content not being Johnny Solo in raids trying to show everyone how awesome you are. You want to be the point guard who jacks up 25 shots a night and doesn't care about winning, just getting your stats. I don't see why that mentality should drive game development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You'll find both sets of results severely lacking in any substance. It's a perfectly fair analogy. If you can just ask people to report on their DPS you should just be able to ask people their ***** size. Both are things that people are *obviously* touchy about, but we can all assume they'll be honest in their replies despite that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You are supposed to be working as a team to overcome content not being Johnny Solo in raids trying to show everyone how awesome you are. You want to be the point guard who jacks up 25 shots a night and doesn't care about winning, just getting your stats. I don't see why that mentality should drive game development. I'm funding a study on the size of the average human ***** in the United States. I was going to have my staff use measuring tools, but I've decided to just ask everyone instead. Should be fine, right? ????? I want a non-dismissive answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 You are supposed to be working as a team to overcome content not being Johnny Solo in raids trying to show everyone how awesome you are. You want to be the point guard who jacks up 25 shots a night and doesn't care about winning, just getting your stats. I don't see why that mentality should drive game development. Can that point guard also keep his mob cc'd and avoid the boss aoe? I'd raid with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenmuir Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Groups that don't use meters should then get better loot as they are playing a more challenging game. I like that idea. How is the content more challenging for the group without the meter? Does having a dps meter/combat log change the amount of damage the boss deals, how much I heal for, how much damage the tank receives, how much damage I deal? If you response is: "you can see all of that without the combat log/dps meter" why would it matter if I have one then? Does the content become easier if I place my health bar in the top right of the screen instead of the bottom middle? "Then why don't you just die? Because it makes no difference." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It doesn't help build the community much if a miscreant takes a group spot he has no intention of honoring. Parsers are basically DNA evidence when it comes to outting the slacker who's causing us to wipe on a boss. You fear the math, but the math can set you free. You fear people. Learn to treat other players like people and not npcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is why star wars will fail, it has too many ppl like u in it. Im a tank, combat logs all the way, i need to know who isnt working with me. Im busting my balls tanking for you silly dps, i cant see what your doing , and if your just cruising thru it while im busting my balls, then we have a problem... A good tank doesn't need a dps meter to know what is going on. I didn't realize we had an entire generation of players that have no experience without training wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guided_by_voices Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How is the content more challenging for the group without the meter? Does having a dps meter/combat log change the amount of damage the boss deals, how much I heal for, how much damage the tank receives, how much damage I deal? If you response is: "you can see all of that without the combat log/dps meter" why would it matter if I have one then? Does the content become easier if I place my health bar in the top right of the screen instead of the bottom middle? "Then why don't you just die? Because it makes no difference." if the meter improves play and makes the game easier to manage then not using them would be a more challenging mode of play. where you place your health bar is not the same type of addon as recount or dbm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 You fear people. Learn to treat other players like people and not npcs. So does that mean I should try and help them improve, or respect their decision and find a replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 A good tank doesn't need a dps meter to know what is going on. I didn't realize we had an entire generation of players that have no experience without training wheels. He does if he wants to know what the mob is doing to him. Seeing which aoe's are hitting the group is also useful. There's lot of useful mob into in combat logs for a tank to benefit from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Rule of thumb? You need to be out-damaging the tank, and doing your crowd control. Then you compare your output to that of other dps characters, especially your own class. If you can keep up with them, you're probably okay. Of course the best way to gather all this data is with a parsed combat log! Yeah rule of thumb right. Every rule of thumb from wow to rift to war hammer was nine sense and always way higher than necessary. Not to mention a nice round dumb number that most people quoting could not even defend or explain. Someone else came up with it and they followed it like sheep. I have seen this numbers be misapplied all the time and seen content down with way lower numbers. Not to mention I have never seen anyone adjust for class and build and dps potential. The numbers are almost never properly used and just end up everyone playing a few builds so they don't have to deal with the people who don't understand the numbers but try to force others to abide by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahana Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It's a perfectly fair analogy. If you can just ask people to report on their DPS you should just be able to ask people their ***** size. Both are things that people are *obviously* touchy about, but we can all assume they'll be honest in their replies despite that, right? It is a great analogy.. However.. Humor is LOST on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenmuir Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A good tank doesn't need a dps meter to know what is going on. I didn't realize we had an entire generation of players that have no experience without training wheels. Actually he usually does, assuming he is attempting challenging content. If you are not targeting a gunnery commando(the class i'm playing right now for example), you have no way of knowing if he is following his priority system to maximize his dps. It is literally impossible without having booth him targeted and the mob targeted to see if the commando is doing his job. On the other hand, the dps/healer can look at their screen to see if the tank is holding aggro. If he is not holding aggro, the mob will move around and attack other people, something very easy to see. But in your twisted world, no one should be able to see how well the dps class is doing his job? The graphics on your screen don't change if a dps player doesn't do his job correctly, but the graphics do change for the other two roles, tank(the mob moves around and attacks other people) or healer(people die). Why is the dps role different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 And good for them, they'll get to have fun on a level they enjoy. Combat logs being private/public should be optional. Your casual joes can have a blast doing content they are able to do with no hassle, and your min/maxers can turn theirs public and analyze their spreadsheets until the cows come home. Everybody wins. Nothing that makes the game substantially easier can be considered optional. They can make elite level raid gear drop from solo quests and then raiders can do their thing to get it and solo players their own thing. See it doesn't work. Dps meters makes content easier and also has a large negative impact on class balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) It is a great analogy.. However.. Humor is LOST on you. Look, I'm trying really hard to make a point here. There is incredible naivete inherent in the "private log" argument and I'm hoping to get right at the heart of it. I'm still trying to swim through a dazzling school of red herrings so you'll have to forgive me a lapse in humor detection. Edited January 11, 2012 by AlpsStranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yep, training wheels. *yawn* Got any more personal attacks? Come on, we've still got a long way to go before page 128, I'm sure you can fit them all in. Is it your contention that dps meters don't make content easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yeah rule of thumb right. Every rule of thumb from wow to rift to war hammer was nine sense and always way higher than necessary. Not to mention a nice round dumb number that most people quoting could not even defend or explain. Someone else came up with it and they followed it like sheep. I have seen this numbers be misapplied all the time and seen content down with way lower numbers. Not to mention I have never seen anyone adjust for class and build and dps potential. The numbers are almost never properly used and just end up everyone playing a few builds so they don't have to deal with the people who don't understand the numbers but try to force others to abide by them. So... you think dps classes should do LESS damage than the tank? What do we need dps classes for then? You act like my suggestion of just being average means elitism. I would hope all dps classes do about the same damage, as that means they're just about equally desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenmuir Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) if the meter improves play and makes the game easier to manage then not using them would be a more challenging mode of play. where you place your health bar is not the same type of addon as recount or dbm But if the information that the meter shows is already in the game, how does it make any difference? I thought that if you were a good player that you would be able to see how well everyone else is playing and that only bads need the meter? Also, moving my health bar is exactly the same type of addon as recount or dbm. That statement shows your lack of understanding of how either addon works, and calls into question your understanding of addons in general. Is it your contention that dps meters don't make content easier? I don't think anyone would. They aren't dredging out arcane information hidden away in the server communications, it's taking information already given to you and placing it in a different form. If placing it in a different form is easier for some people, does that not mean that the current form is easier for other people and thus providing an unfair advantage? Edited January 11, 2012 by Kenmuir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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