finkybot Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I’m a casual gamer , but I still wanted a game that pulled me into its world, I still wanted a game brimming with fantastic new features never before seen and original concepts that pushes the concepts of gaming to the limits. I wanted freedom that allows you to develop your avatar in a unique (even if it is illusory) ways that defines your toon as your toon and not a clone of all the same class character you meet. In short I wanted a self contained world that allowed me to escape the daily grind of reality even if it is only for short periods of time. In truth I just want something totally different and this is just not it. It’s a pity to, as this long term lack of innovation in games is becoming more apparent in PC gaming but then again perhaps I’m just too old and today’s gamers may see today’s games in the same light I seen games such as Elite, Ultima, Carrier Command and Damocles to name but few. However it’s worth noting that in order for this game to be a commercial success it will need a massive amount of subs over a very long period of time in order to just break even, especially when you consider its massive development costs, overheads and the amount of royalties I expect they have to pay to the Jar Jar Binks foundation.... Only time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaquelotus Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm older gamer (Atari, Commodore 64). Like you I often look back and wax nostalgic. I also sometimes find myself lamenting the "entitlement" generation. But you know what? We "old skool" players are equally entitled. We often feel like the world should never change, just so we can feel comfortable in our assumptions, and patterns. But you know the world moves on, and for the most part seems to get a little better. Really when you look at it some of things we put up with in our old games it was sort of insane. Its like we were torturing ourselves for "fun". I wouldn't trade my memories of those days but it was sort of crazy lol. The purpose of human evolution is to become more efficient, faster, and to make life more safe, and comfortable. I mean in real life didn't we old folks bust our *****es for no other reason than to make life better for the next generation? Its the way of life. The current generation of gamers will eventually look at newer players and whine about how entitled they are. But really its just the way things are supposed to be. Instead we should all just be glad that our hobby is gaining acceptance and that its growing and including more people. I feel where you're coming from, but I guess I've been slowly coming to embrace the fact that the kids have taken up the mantle and made the hobby their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabboo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You always need a standard to live by, whats the problem to try and live up to someone?? U always try to be the best u can possibly be dont u?? or do you rather want to watch the first place the rest of your life from the sofa? rather than going out there and be nr1 yourself?? Its always good to have rolemodels in your life, without good players u wont have anything to strive for. You apparently aren't trying to be the best you can possibly be at writing. My god at least I hope that isn't your best. You're angry that people have become lazy? Look at your writing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelbyWars Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The nr1 reason ppl want stuff in mmo`s more easy is that they dont have time to do stuff. But why do you play a game that take hundreds of hours to just get to the endgame content if u dont have time for anthing??Look at Eve Online. Succesful maybe not on the scale of WoW or TOR right now but it's probably the most hardcore MMO out right now. See now,..here is an example..there are two kinds of "hardcore" that I feel needs to be discussed. Hardcore as in "Hard!" It takes teamwork and strategy! and Hardcore as in "Click this button 10million times" and chain yourself to the computer with hotPockets. There is no Hardcore'ness to EveOnline's skill system,..only time. There IS mad Hardcore'ness to EveOnline's Consequences to failure in combat though. There is no Hardcore'ness to SwTor themepark(but fun, imho) Level progression. There is No Hardcore'ness to SwTor's Consequences for combat failure. --------- The biggest gripe I have with today's MMO's is not losing the "time invested" grind of ol'school games,... it's that MMO's are not pushing the boundaries of non-Skinner-box type fun. but as a casual do you realy have the knowledge to decide whats good for the game or not based on your personal time and xp in the game?? I am casual,...Now. But I played MMOs since EQ1, and since then tons of MMOs(SWG,DaoC,Eve,CoH,..etc),..I was "hardcore", clocked mad hours,.missed work,..etc,. But I am older now, married, good job,...don't have the time like I used to. BUT I would say I am just as qualified as You, due to my experiece. and like others mentioned,..their money is just as good as yours! Casuals pay for hardcore players development. I don't understand your disdain for them. No casuals? No game. Goodbye. Also wall of text. Agreed,..on both accounts. Fun is the holy grail of MMO, not the Skinner box (but that is what ever MMO since EQ1 [which WoW is a copy, of course] has used). Shhh,.you are going ot blow the WoW virgin's brains! I'm older gamer (Atari, Commodore 64). Like you I often look back and wax nostalgic. I also sometimes find myself lamenting the "entitlement" generation. But you know what? We "old skool" players are equally entitled. We often feel like the world should never change, just so we can feel comfortable in our assumptions, and patterns. I'm prolly up there with you( SwordQuest for Atari!) and I also lament the 'Entitled' generation. But I don't feel like the world should'nt change,...in fact.,.I encourage it,..I just think they are doing it with the wrong atitude,.. Now GIT off my LAWN! I feel where you're coming from, but I guess I've been slowly coming to embrace the fact that the kids have taken up the mantle and made the hobby their own. money makes the world go 'round! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanharn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Casuals pay for hardcore players development. I don't understand your disdain for them. No casuals? No game. Goodbye. Also wall of text. Logic fails you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) You always need a standard to live by, whats the problem to try and live up to someone?? U always try to be the best u can possibly be dont u?? or do you rather want to watch the first place the rest of your life from the sofa? rather than going out there and be nr1 yourself?? Its always good to have rolemodels in your life, without good players u wont have anything to strive for. Because computer gaming is serious business? Sorry ... no. That's not the case for everyone. Tell me something, what does being #1 in a game like WoW or SW:TOR or any other MMO get you? I mean, I could be #1 for a day at a nationals dart tournament and earn a trip to England to complete with world champs (couple of friends have actually done that.) Or, could be #1 out of a field of 43 cars in a NASCAR race, or 64 golfers in a PGA match and earn a nice fat check. Could be #1 on a college team and earn a lucrative spot on a pro team. Could be #1 in sales at a company and earn a nice bonus or promotion. Could be #1 in electoral votes and win the presidency But, what does being #1 in an MMO get you? Now, I suspect I know what some of the responses would be BUT, they are centered around (imo) approaching the game as being in competition with others playing the game. And there's a lot of people who simply do not view MMORPGs that way. I'm here to enjoy my time playing with my friends and guildmates, and beating the content. Whether you or anyone else beats it a day, week, or months ahead of us I really don't care. Or if you accomplished it before this patch or that nerf, again I don't care. Or if your gear, spec, etc etc etc is better than mine ... guess what? That's right ... I don't care. I don't play these games to compare myself to a server full of anonymous strangers. I couldn't care less about what you have or how you got it. I'm NOT going to approach a source of entertainment with a work-like mentality to try to live up to the standard of someone I don't know and don't give a rat's backside of what their opinion is of me. Edited January 11, 2012 by ThiborF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyv Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sry Man I have played MMOs and games in general for a very long time and "back in the day" or "old school" has nothing to do with hardcore or casual gaming. I understand your complaint (well I translated it as best I could) but you have understand there are over a million people playing these games and you cannot cater to everyone. You can cater to the majority though and I have confidence BW will do this. They have invested over 100 mill in this game and I think they are taking calculated steps to try and give everyone a chance to have fun with their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodJunkie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I feel like the idea of the hardcore player is dying...These games are now catered to that good old fast food mentality that our society has developed. That sense of entitlement for 15 bucks a month creeps in and people start to demand everything for nothing. It is really too bad and I will tell you why... I remember when I first started playing WoW and saw people with all this amazing looking gear....Now this is back in 2004 when the game was not switched to easy mode and people had to grind and play like crazy to get gear and you couldnt just walk into MC and kill **** etc...Anyways seeing these people with the purples made me want to play more and become this hardcore raider.....It made me excited for the game.....It gave me something to look forward to. I wanted to be that guy that had all the sick gear that made all the lowbies go "Oh **** that guys gear is nasty......" Unfortunately that is not the case anymore.....For instance I am already vendoring purples in this game lol. It just feels like this game is going to do the same...There is no hard work that has to go in....You can just afk in bgs and get epics for crap sakes..... There will always be casual gamers but its just too bad that everything is made so easy these days. Edited January 11, 2012 by TheGoodJunkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verzin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 IMO MMOs are not, and never, were "challenging". They are the epitome of "you get out what you put in" sort of deal. guess what OP: Spending a month, or months in some cases, grinding out levels then doing more weeks of grinding for gear in order to to do raid bosses isn't difficulty. Just a measure of how much time you're willing to sink into the game while you max out every idiotic skill rotation and use google to find people who've eliminated variety in the game by finding each and every classes optimal build through mathematics. There is nothing 'fun' about MMOs. they just take up vast amounts of time and let you socialize a bit. fantastic for people who want to block out reality, but as actual games they fall short of mediocrity. guess it's purely subjective, but while I've poured hundreds of hours into WoW and EQ I never got an ounce of joy out those games like I did with Dragon Age or Morrowind. I was just terribly terribly bored. Just wanted something to do that required very little thought and all of my time (which is why I hang around forums in school when I should be finishing up my programming class. my god I'm productive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyv Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The definition of hardcore: Full loot Full PvP Permadeath Any other definition is just people who can't take hardcore trying to feel better about themselves. Yea pretty much how I see it. This is a weak thread, time to move to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 BC was an ok expansion, but it was neither "veteran" nor "hardcore", it was simply grind after grind after grind. EQ1 was a hardcore game, but quite simply the paradiam has shifted, EQ1 wouldn't do well as a newly release game today (hours of buffing, before you even started to raid ). Fun is the holy grail of MMO, not the Skinner box (but that is what ever MMO since EQ1 [which WoW is a copy, of course] has used). I think EQ1 with a new game engine, no quests, no add-ons, no timers, would do very well for the veteran MMO Players. Alas for the current player base, no. We had it hard back then, what you got you earned. If you died you had to run across all the zones to your zone then find your corpse, res it and then get rebuffed. And you lost 1/3rd experience. Groups were easy to get, just yell out in any zone and you'd find one. The premier grind spots sometimes had a queue of players waiting until one of the current group members left and they'd take the spot. A group could last for hours and hours, so much so, I remember leaving a group to get dinner and then coming back, waiting in line and getting back into it. But, everything now is gimme, gimme, gimme. Add-ons to play for you, add-ons to tell you when a mob enrages, add-ons to tie your shoes. EQ1 was hard, but it was better than this rubbish nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezePeach Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 All I got from this post is that hardcore = this is the only thing I have going for me in my life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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