Our Ideas for Ops/Scound...

[HeyImTempzz]

Okay guys, so i was talking with my guild about the nerfs/buffs that we can see coming, were all decent PvP players and as such feel we have a fairly good idea about where the game is at atm.

 

These Ideas are:

 

1) Make Knockbacks Useable In Stuns?

2) Increase Base HP of all Classes by 2k - 3k?

3) Make Defensives Useable In Stuns?

4) Lower the Armour Pen Of "Acid Blade"?

5) Make The "Jarred Strike" tallent only 50% instead of 100%?

 

These are just a few ideas that would stop the Burst of a Op/Scound. But is also usefull for the CC problems in the game currently...

 

 

I understand people wont agree with everything, but maybe can take some of these and adapt them to be something that could be changed?

[urgha]

1) Nerf biochem.

2) Decrease opener damage.

3) Give operative shadowstep.

[HeyImTempzz]

1) Nerf biochem.

2) Decrease opener damage.

3) Give operative shadowstep.

 

Biochem Nerf on the Stims etc yes, but the heals are nice to have if playing solo me thinks...

 

Is the shadowstep there to make up for Opener damage? because my friends say they dont often get kited on there op.

[big_aug]

Let's get serious. With all the whining, the are going to nerf us into oblivion just like they did Critblades in DAoC. It will become a completely useless spec and no one will use it.

 

I'll just respec or reroll. Hopefully I don't pick the class that's next in line to be nerfed.

[mandrillagon]

1) Nerf biochem.

2) Decrease opener damage.

3) Give operative shadowstep.

 

Give scoundrels the ability to exchange their character for another class that is OP like commando grav round, BH tracer missle or sage/sorc. Just leave the operative as a viable healer or dot damage class if they go lethality spec.

[Bloodmoonz]

Thier burst damage needs to be toned down and put into some overall damage, and yes a gap closer would be really nice, a shadow step call "Operation teleport" would be fkin cool.

[HeyImTempzz]

Let's get serious. With all the whining, the are going to nerf us into oblivion just like they did Critblades in DAoC. It will become a completely useless spec and no one will use it.

 

I'll just respec or reroll. Hopefully I don't pick the class that's next in line to be nerfed.

 

But you shouldent have too.. I dont want to see it like wow destro locks where specs are totaly unviable for pvp.... I personaly find sages/sorcs more powerful/harder to deal with than ops.. But I wanted to make a thread that gives a nerf... But also helps in other aspects.

[HeyImTempzz]

Thier burst damage needs to be toned down and put into some overall damage, and yes a gap closer would be really nice, a shadow step call "Operation teleport" would be fkin cool.

 

Easy to say.. But then there just a vibro knife using sith warrior without force moves.. And sustainable damage is something I dont want to see for them.. Ofc overall damage is good. But sustained damage woulf mean a total remake of the class and that may be a little hard to ajust too for players...

changing class merchanics to this degree would mean theyd have to change tallents... Cooldowns... Defensives added in...

 

Sorry about replys... Doing from phone currently

[Hamchuck]

You guys should check out this thread. It's about tanks in PvP and the lack of effectiveness of shielding and defense. I think it carries some pretty big consequences for operatives and scoundrels. Right now, our attacks are only mitigated by armor. Not shields. Not defense. With Acid Blade's armor pen, ops/scs can effectively tear apart heavy armor wearers with little issue. Yeah, yeah, I play an operative, which may or may not need a nerf/tweak, but I can't, in good conscience, say definitively one way or another until the tanking and biochem issues are sorted out first. We may still need fixing after that, but hopefully, the external variables are ironed out, any incoming nerfs or buffs won't be too extreme.

[ImApologetic]

before you point out an operative's acid blade lets take a look @ commando, tracer missile reducing enemy armor by 5% per stack( believe its like that) of heat signature, then their 30% base armor pen. Operative needs burst to be useful, if you suggest removing it how about suggesting a beneficial alternative that makes operative viable as concealment besides just " Nerf this. "

 

i Play a lethality spec operative, i have no stronger defensive cds than a concealment op, i rarely die to one, and on the occasion when i do they still die.

Edited January 11, 2012 by ImApologetic

[HeyImTempzz]

before you point out an operative's acid blade lets take a look @ commando, tracer missile reducing enemy armor by 5% per stack( believe its like that) of heat signature, then their 30% base armor pen. Operative needs burst to be useful, if you suggest removing it how about suggesting a beneficial alternative that makes operative viable as concealment besides just " Nerf this. "

 

i Play a lethality spec operative, i have no stronger defensive cds than a concealment op, i rarely die to one, and on the occasion when i do they still die.

 

This thread is about operatives... And the things like using defensives like energy sheild in stun arnt always available... BUT do mean there is another way to survive when breakout/medpac are on cd... This change would also help with the large cc problem in, the game too...

[HeyImTempzz]

JJusr

You guys should check out this thread. It's about tanks in PvP and the lack of effectiveness of shielding and defense. I think it carries some pretty big consequences for operatives and scoundrels. Right now, our attacks are only mitigated by armor. Not shields. Not defense. With Acid Blade's armor pen, ops/scs can effectively tear apart heavy armor wearers with little issue. Yeah, yeah, I play an operative, which may or may not need a nerf/tweak, but I can't, in good conscience, say definitively one way or another until the tanking and biochem issues are sorted out first. We may still need fixing after that, but hopefully, the external variables are ironed out, any incoming nerfs or buffs won't be too extreme.

 

Heal pots are fine.. Just stims etc...

And your comment about acid blade is one of the things we said could change...

[ImApologetic]

i'm just saying that as it is the class isn't overpowered, changes CAN be made sure, but as it stands its not really very clear on what is needed. Not that many people are @ valor 60 + equipment. IMO Bioware should take a look at the issue, and get clear data from people who are in the best possible pvp equipment, and collect all that data to get a clear picture of what is needed to be done. However, they should absolutely not "Nerf" a class so early just because some people do not understand how fragile the class is without what is in question.

 

I do not think allowing a knockback in stun would be a answer to the issue of burst. tbh it would become a very abusive feature, not every class has this option, other classes would need a supplemental skill to replace that feature.

 

Acid blade change(not nerf) would be the best answer imo.

Edited January 11, 2012 by ImApologetic

[Hamchuck]

JJusr

 

Heal pots are fine.. Just stims etc...

And your comment about acid blade is one of the things we said could change...

Indeed. I'm just saying that that may be an unnecessary change if shields and defense worked against our attacks. After testing with a powertech, we found that the only things he can mitigate against an operative are Rifle Shot, Carbine Burst, Overload Shot and a little bit of Acid Blade. If BW states that the current state of shield/defense is working as intended (I doubt it, else their PvP itemization people need to be working extra hours with no pay), then Acid Blade should probably be nerfed. Otherwise, AB is fine and we'll need it to make up for defense/shielding.

[jbrdude]

Ops were this way in beta.

 

If you take opening damage down, you give them utility and/or more out of combat damage = Sin.

 

Can't take opening burst and give nothing. Pretty straight forward.

Edited January 11, 2012 by jbrdude

[Sheduur]

Easy fix.

 

 

Make them build up combopoints. This will throttle their damage like it is traditionally the case with rogue classes. Why they havent actually thought of this in the first place is really beyond me....

 

I mean this clearly shows in many ways. One of them being their 30s stun cd which isnt really just optional and a choice between damage or cc, operatives in this game can just use it when its off cooldown and STILL pump out massive damage after it, instead of having to build up combopoints again after using them on a stun.

 

Also make two abilities to open up from stealth. One being their current opener WITHOUT the knockback and the other being an opener with very little damage but WITH the knockback.

 

It should be a choice between damage and cc most of the time. And if you choose damage you have to live with the fact that the enemy might actually get a chance to fight back instead of just lay on his face and take it like a champ.

[HeyImTempzz]

Easy fix.

 

 

Make them build up combopoints. This will throttle their damage like it is traditionally the case with rogue classes. Why they havent actually thought of this in the first place is really beyond me....

 

I mean this clearly shows in many ways. One of them being their 30s stun cd which isnt really just optional and a choice between damage or cc, operatives in this game can just use it when its off cooldown and STILL pump out massive damage after it, instead of having to build up combopoints again after using them on a stun.

 

Also make two abilities to open up from stealth. One being their current opener WITHOUT the knockback and the other being an opener with very little damage but WITH the knockback.

 

It should be a choice between damage and cc most of the time. And if you choose damage you have to live with the fact that the enemy might actually get a chance to fight back instead of just lay on his face and take it like a champ.

 

In my opinions.. Combopoints work, but not with this energy system.. They would mash out 5 combopoints and in doing that have mid burst.. But that would also mean youd change the class.. And that will.nerf heals and leathality... Thts not fair. Cant play a combopoint healer...

[HeyImTempzz]

Ops were this way in beta.

 

If you take opening damage down, you give them utility and/or more out of combat damage = Sin.

 

Can't take opening burst and give nothing. Pretty straight forward.

 

Why waste a awsome burst, something thats diffrent to all classes and then make it just like another... If you make defensives and knockbacks useable in stun then all would be perfect... Its like when shammans got thunderstorm in WoW

[BaxAttack]

You guys do realize that Bioware has already stated that they aren't going to nerf or buff a class based on the whiney forum posters right? They aren't going to make the same mistake blizzard did.

[Halphas]

Lower acid blade value. Make knockdown from stealth a seperate ability(then buff it to 4sec and make it not fill resolve). Make them choose damage or control.

 

After this and a nerf to consumable/trinket/adrenal stacking, they may need a buff to mobility/survivability.

[HeyImTempzz]

You guys do realize that Bioware has already stated that they aren't going to nerf or buff a class based on the whiney forum posters right? They aren't going to make the same mistake blizzard did.

 

You realise that they also said that if you gave constructive ideas about how to sort certain aspects out then there more likely to help people out.. I dont have a problem with the OPs class or Scound. class as a BH healer. But what i dont want to happen is to get to rated, and have 8 v 8 My team vs people who have 8 Ops or 8 Scounds.

 

I gave ideas, i did not whine about them being at overpowered. If you read the thread you'd have noticed this.

[carbocat]

Okay guys, so i was talking with my guild about the nerfs/buffs that we can see coming, were all decent PvP players and as such feel we have a fairly good idea about where the game is at atm.

 

These Ideas are:

 

1) Make Knockbacks Useable In Stuns?

2) Increase Base HP of all Classes by 2k - 3k?

3) Make Defensives Useable In Stuns?

4) Lower the Armour Pen Of "Acid Blade"?

5) Make The "Jarred Strike" tallent only 50% instead of 100%?

 

These are just a few ideas that would stop the Burst of a Op/Scound. But is also usefull for the CC problems in the game currently...

 

 

I understand people wont agree with everything, but maybe can take some of these and adapt them to be something that could be changed?

 

No....

[HeyImTempzz]

No....

 

Constructive..

[theMornox]

i am still very sure that the class is not the thing that should be adjusted but stacking consumables. my groups are all valor 45+ and i dont share the opinion operatives/scoundrels being overpowered.

after the initial burst, which wont kill an equally geared opponent, they really dont have much to surprise their enemy with, combined with low dps until some cooldowns are up again.

 

just due to consumables that initial burst sometimes gets a bit high

[HeyImTempzz]

i am still very sure that the class is not the thing that should be adjusted but stacking consumables. my groups are all valor 45+ and i dont share the opinion operatives/scoundrels being overpowered.

after the initial burst, which wont kill an equally geared opponent, they really dont have much to surprise their enemy with, combined with low dps until some cooldowns are up again.

 

just due to consumables that initial burst sometimes gets a bit high

 

Which is what i feel is the problem also... But with removing consumeables for one, you remove it for all.. and thats a consiquence for all classes... not just the one thats causing problems for people.