Krazeh Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It brings in the elitist. No more needs said. The elitists are already there, recount doesn't magically make them flock to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The elitists are already there, recount doesn't magically make them flock to the game. Yeah yeah... we know... guns don't kill people, people do But guess what, a homicidal maniac with a automatic rifle is a heckofa lot bigger threat to safety than one with a crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah yeah... we know... guns don't kill people, people do But guess what, a homicidal maniac with a automatic rifle is a heckofa lot bigger threat to safety than one with a crayon Perhaps so but recount isn't the ingame equivalent of an automatic rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PugKing Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No for the simple reasons people who spam recount numbers after every fight are some of the most annoying scum in the MMORPGverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xHueyx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Have been many occasions where I encountered it being used. Never got kicked because of it myself, but I've seen it happen lots of times. And seen the spam countless times. So saying if I don't wan to use it, it doesn't affect me just isn't true. I have never once, in my 7 years of playing WoW, seen someone removed from a group for not using recount. Something that would be impossible for them to tell in the first place anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I have never once, in my 7 years of playing WoW, seen someone removed from a group for not using recount. Something that would be impossible for them to tell in the first place anyways. Awesome... here's a cookie for ya! I was a member of a hardcore raiding guild where it happened several times. I've been an Officer in a guild where it was requested of me several times. My friend still plays WoW in a raiding guild and had a member get into a flamewar/ragequit with the officers over this very issue. Recount can be a somewhat useful tool when used properly and intelligently, by mature individuals. It also can be (and has been) abused horribly by a large number of people that didn't use it properly. Individual Meters are coming. If the Guild you play in is really hardcore, then you will all use your individual meters for personal improvement while working as a team to beat the content. To put it another way, if your first move after wiping on an encounter is to check the meters to see what "weak link" needs to be removed - you are exactly the person who should never be allowed to play with access to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xHueyx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Awesome... here's a cookie for ya! I was a member of a hardcore raiding guild where it happened several times. I've been an Officer in a guild where it was requested of me several times. My friend still plays WoW in a raiding guild and had a member get into a flamewar/ragequit with the officers over this very issue. Recount can be a somewhat useful tool when used properly and intelligently, by mature individuals. It also can be (and has been) abused horribly by a large number of people that didn't use it properly. Individual Meters are coming. If the Guild you play in is really hardcore, then you will all use your individual meters for personal improvement while working as a team to beat the content. To put it another way, if your first move after wiping on an encounter is to check the meters to see what "weak link" needs to be removed - you are exactly the person who should never be allowed to play with access to them If you are in a hardcore raiding guild you SHOULD be using a damage meter if it is available or you are hurting the raid. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If you are in a hardcore raiding guild you SHOULD be using a damage meter if it is available or you are hurting the raid. /thread /fail Or you can just continue to faceroll the content without them like the good players do. combat logs - great meters - not needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 /fail Or you can just continue to faceroll the content without them like the good players do. combat logs - great meters - not needed All recount does is parse the combat log. As soon as you have combat logs you're going to have parsers. You simply aren't going to have one without the other, it'll just be a case of whether the parser is ingame or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xHueyx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 /fail Or you can just continue to faceroll the content without them like the good players do. combat logs - great meters - not needed Because having some form of meter to measure yourself against other people in real time in a competitive hardcore raiding situation is a negative thing? It amazes me that people are OK with PvP being very competitive, but the second someone tries to bring any form of competitiveness into PvE everyone freaks out. I am starting to think the majority of people who are opposed to damage meters to adamantly are just bad and ashamed of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Because having some form of meter to measure yourself against other people in real time in a competitive hardcore raiding situation is a negative thing? It amazes me that people are OK with PvP being very competitive, but the second someone tries to bring any form of competitiveness into PvE everyone freaks out. I am starting to think the majority of people who are opposed to damage meters to adamantly are just bad and ashamed of it. It has nothing to do with skill... The games easy period. Have the right gear, beat the boss. Just like any other mmo out there.. I come from a game that did have combat logs, but no outside mod's were allowed thus no meters. Did it stop the hardcore players their? No... Did it stop the "elite" players their? no.. Todays society is so bitten by this "competitveness" of "I" have to be "BETTER" than anyone else I come across. Im 30+ years old, I've seen the evolution of gaming. I've been in competitive tourney's with money on the line, many times I might add... If you need a meter to find out what's lacking, then you should look in the mirror first. I miss the good ole days when it came down to tactics and execution. A combat log that gives me the info "I" need to know is all that really matters to me. How did I die? How much damage did I take from that hit? How much is my highest crit... I dont need a meter to show me everyone elses info so I can see if Im better than some random person I dont even know, or care to know, or care for their opinion. Its ridiculous, and part of whats wrong with the world today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If you need a meter to find out what's lacking, then you should look in the mirror first. I miss the good ole days when it came down to tactics and execution. No you don't need a meter to find out what's lacking but what you do need is some proper information or you're doing nothing more than guessing and attempting to beat an encounter by trial and error. So you have a combat log which details what happened during the fight to you and those around you which you can look through to see how people died, what the boss was doing, what sort of damage/healing people were doing etc in order to come up with an actual tactic to execute but also work out how to improve on your performance. Now you can either look through the combat log manually, use an external parser or an ingame parser like recount, the choice is yours. All recount means is you don't have to go out of game to easily view what the combat log tells you about the fight. A combat log that gives me the info "I" need to know is all that really matters to me. How did I die? How much damage did I take from that hit? How much is my highest crit... I dont need a meter to show me everyone elses info so I can see if Im better than some random person I dont even know, or care to know, or care for their opinion. Well that's all well and good if you're plaing solo but when you're playing as a part of team you should care about how your performance stacks up against everyone else. Not to brag about being the best but to ensure that you're pulling your weight during hte encounter. You may also be a more competent player than someone else in the group who's playing the same class as you and be in a position to offer them friendly advice if they're not performing as well as you but if you have no way to measure that or get some idea of why they're not performin as well then there's little you can do to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If you are in a hardcore raiding guild you SHOULD be using a damage meter if it is available or you are hurting the raid. /thread I led raids in EQ and Vanilla WoW as raid leader and Main tank. In WoW we made it all the way up to the Twin Emps and the knight boss guys in Necrop before our guild broke apart (people didn't want to raid if all the raid gear would be out done by greens in BC) Not once did we ever use recount damage meters or even threat meters. Vael all done with out a damage meter or a threat meter. It's called leadership and skill go get some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythhammer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 NO recount. NO gear Score. I have eight 85's in that game whose Dread Name is not to be mentioned... ^^ I've seen how both of those have been SERIOUSLY abused. How they have torn long time guilds a part, as raiding madness sets in. Do we really want that in ToR? Yes, they can be used in a responsible fashion. Yes, they are useful for tactical details. But their potential for abuse is simply too great. Do we really want this game to go down the same dark path, as that other game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xHueyx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I led raids in EQ and Vanilla WoW as raid leader and Main tank. In WoW we made it all the way up to the Twin Emps and the knight boss guys in Necrop before our guild broke apart (people didn't want to raid if all the raid gear would be out done by greens in BC) Not once did we ever use recount damage meters or even threat meters. Vael all done with out a damage meter or a threat meter. It's called leadership and skill go get some. Implying that you can't have damage meters while still having leadership and skill in a raid group. In actuality if you took those things and added a competitive environment with damage meters your guild would probably have been even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaluria Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No you don't need a meter to find out what's lacking but what you do need is some proper information or you're doing nothing more than guessing and attempting to beat an encounter by trial and error. So you have a combat log which details what happened during the fight to you and those around you which you can look through to see how people died, what the boss was doing, what sort of damage/healing people were doing etc in order to come up with an actual tactic to execute but also work out how to improve on your performance. Now you can either look through the combat log manually, use an external parser or an ingame parser like recount, the choice is yours. All recount means is you don't have to go out of game to easily view what the combat log tells you about the fight. Well that's all well and good if you're plaing solo but when you're playing as a part of team you should care about how your performance stacks up against everyone else. Not to brag about being the best but to ensure that you're pulling your weight during hte encounter. You may also be a more competent player than someone else in the group who's playing the same class as you and be in a position to offer them friendly advice if they're not performing as well as you but if you have no way to measure that or get some idea of why they're not performin as well then there's little you can do to help. I just bet you scream 'more dots' too, no seriously, personal combat log is all you need to improve YOURSELF, you are not needed to judge others performance. If you are grouping with your guild mates you need to trust them and if you don't your in the wrong guild. If your pugging quit pugging hard content. Simple as that, recount cause more problems than it worth many people have experience the problems, why give out the tools that cause the problems. A stove is a useful tool in the right hands but giving it to a child only causes them to get burned or burn the house down. Personal combat log will give you all the info you need to improve your preformance in a game. You have been told this time and time again in this thread but you just won't believe it because you are having a tantrum because you want recount. Good lord keep stamping your feet and waving your arms and crying it's very amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) People are soooooo scared of being busted out for being bad. They seem so content to sit in mediocrity and RP like they are really the best players around when the reason they hate the idea of recount is that they were the ones being laughed at because the tank did more dps. Now they flock to the *new* game and get a new "lease on life" where they can once again go about pretending they are somehow good at a video game this go around when they were failures in every game they have played so far. There is no other explanation - "It makes the community bad"... this community is already horrible and that as an excuse feels flat. "It makes it EZMODE"... what? Group damage meters don't play the game for you at all... "People will focus on damage and not mechanics"... ? Recount shows much more than damage, it shows all aspects of the fight, including who stood in the fire, who didn't interrupt and who failed to switch to adds. The truth is that like every other MMO that comes out - all the super casuals who hated what they percieved to be persecution by elitists who took the game a bit more seriously than they did, flock to the new "safe haven" where they try to make some candyland nirvana of super fun casual friendly bullpucky where they can be safe from being labeled as "bad". Edited January 17, 2012 by Rasstavad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I just bet you scream 'more dots' too, no seriously, personal combat log is all you need to improve YOURSELF, you are not needed to judge others performance. If you are grouping with your guild mates you need to trust them and if you don't your in the wrong guild. If your pugging quit pugging hard content. Simple as that, recount cause more problems than it worth many people have experience the problems, why give out the tools that cause the problems. A stove is a useful tool in the right hands but giving it to a child only causes them to get burned or burn the house down. Personal combat log will give you all the info you need to improve your preformance in a game. You have been told this time and time again in this thread but you just won't believe it because you are having a tantrum because you want recount. Good lord keep stamping your feet and waving your arms and crying it's very amusing. And how exactly do you propose that I, or anyone else, can improve their performance when they have nothing to measure their performance against? If all I know is that i'm doing x dps but have no idea what anyone else is doing then how do I know whether i'm doing well, average, poorly? It has nothing to do with judging anyone else's performance and everything to do with having the information you need to judge yours properly, you can't make an objective assessment of your performance if you have nothing to compare it with. Edited January 17, 2012 by Krazeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Implying that you can't have damage meters while still having leadership and skill in a raid group. In actuality if you took those things and added a competitive environment with damage meters your guild would probably have been even better. it would have been easier sure however the guild wouldn't have been better. The trials a guild goes through together can help build bonds that can't be made by looking at a damage meter. We were one of the top 5 raid guilds on the server and the fastest progressing because we all worked toward a single goal. and no that can't be done with a damage meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 And how exactly do you propose that I, or anyone else, can improve their performance when they have nothing to measure their performance against? If all I know is that i'm doing x dps but have no idea what anyone else is doing then how do I know whether i'm doing well, average, poorly? It has nothing to do with judging anyone else's performance and everything to do with having the information you need to judge yours properly, you can't make an objective assessment of your performance if you have nothing to compare it with. it's called being a leader. There are far easier ways to gauge your effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaluria Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 People are soooooo scared of being busted out for being bad. They seem so content to sit in mediocrity and RP like they are really the best players around when the reason they hate the idea of recount is that they were the ones being laughed at because the tank did more dps. Now they flock to the *new* game and get a new "lease on life" where they can once again go about pretending they are somehow good at a video game this go around when they were failures in every game they have played so far. There is no other explanation - "It makes the community bad"... this community is already horrible and that as an excuse feels flat. "It makes it EZMODE"... what? Group damage meters don't play the game for you at all... "People will focus on damage and not mechanics"... ? Recount shows much more than damage, it shows all aspects of the fight, including who stood in the fire, who didn't interrupt and who failed to switch to adds. The truth is that like every other MMO that comes out - all the super casuals who hated what they percieved to be persecution by elitists who took the game a bit more seriously than they did, flock to the new "safe haven" where they try to make some candyland nirvana of super fun casual friendly bullpucky where they can be safe from being labeled as "bad". You keep saying this like it's the truth, who are you calling bad can you even prove what you are saying if not then take your baddie arguement outta here. YOu make yourself into a bully by insulting people because you are the type of person who would use this tool in the wrong way just by what you are saying. If you keep spamming this same post you maybe in violation of the forum rules seriously why do you need a crutch that was only introduced in WoW? You don't want to improve your own performance you just want to mind what everyone else is doing so you can play the blame game. If you are in group share the responsibility for failure like you would for a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starchampya Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 recount we need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klarick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No. True Gamers don't need this "WoW-Crutch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 People are soooooo scared of being busted out for being bad. They seem so content to sit in mediocrity and RP like they are really the best players around when the reason they hate the idea of recount is that they were the ones being laughed at because the tank did more dps. Now they flock to the *new* game and get a new "lease on life" where they can once again go about pretending they are somehow good at a video game this go around when they were failures in every game they have played so far. There is no other explanation - "It makes the community bad"... this community is already horrible and that as an excuse feels flat. "It makes it EZMODE"... what? Group damage meters don't play the game for you at all... "People will focus on damage and not mechanics"... ? Recount shows much more than damage, it shows all aspects of the fight, including who stood in the fire, who didn't interrupt and who failed to switch to adds. The truth is that like every other MMO that comes out - all the super casuals who hated what they percieved to be persecution by elitists who took the game a bit more seriously than they did, flock to the new "safe haven" where they try to make some candyland nirvana of super fun casual friendly bullpucky where they can be safe from being labeled as "bad". again i'm an old hardcore raider from Vanilla WoW we didn't need it to be one of the top raiding guilds on my server and we didn't need it to do the speed runs in BWL to open AQ it's called skill and leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) it's called being a leader. There are far easier ways to gauge your effectiveness. Perhaps you'd like to provide some examples of these far easier ways? And while you're at it how about an explanation of how recount stops a guild working towards a single goal? Edited January 17, 2012 by Krazeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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