Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Setanian]

It's a video game that you play with other people and often times hope to achieve group based goals. Sorry, but if little Timmy has great gear (because this game makes it very easy to get gear) but is wasting my time because he is god awful at playing his class, I would like tools that let me know.

 

How can you possibly say it's group based but want to hold individuals accountable? if you're looking to hold people accountable in a game, f*** knows what you'd be like with a managerial role in a large company.

[TItanten]

The simple fact of the matter is, any game with strict enrage timers (in the sense that once you hit that enrage the boss fight doesn't just get difficult, it gets damn-near impossible) absolutely needs some sort of a damage meter. Not even for jerks in PuGs; organized guilds NEED to know who isn't pulling their weight.

 

Secondary solution:

 

GET RID OF ENRAGE TIMERS.

 

That should actually be the primary solution. Enrage timers are stupid as hell. They're the laziest thing a dev could imagine.

[hulduet]

Most encounters in a game are designed so that the "average" player won't have a problem. So no, you really don't need to "improve" your rotations or whatever. People just like to watch their e-peen.

[Happylol]

I lol'd.

 

How do they know they are in the top? Top of what exactly? People compare these things? With what, air rulers? Peen-o-meters?

 

Do any have dates on Friday, or any other day for that matter? What would Charlie Sheen say?

 

What does this even mean?

 

I was referring to top in WoW, which obviously does not 100% transfer over to this game. However, I feel like if we performed at that level in WoW and other past games, it should not be difficult to do here.

 

As to your second point, I am really not sure how to properly reply to something like this?

 

If you are asking us if we have Real life dates with the opposite sex, I can answer yes. How this has absolutely any reference to anything game related, I am not sure.

 

P.S. People can be married, engaged, or single and still be amazing players.

[xHueyx]

Willing to do anything?

 

If you're 100% sure it's a dps issue (No one dead, but die to enrage timer):

 

On a per-AC basis; use a stopwatch and time kills on single strong mobs. Use at least 50 trials on the same strong mobs (chose those without stuns). Divide mob health by time in seconds to get DPS.

 

Compare these stats.

 

 

The only difference between an ingame meter and having one for you would be doing the math yourself.

 

 

 

Also, if no one is dying try dropping a healer into DPS.

 

How does one know 100% it is a DPS problem unless you can see peoples DPS?

 

Can you tell me what the DPS of anyone in your guild/group is?

 

Choosing to ignore numbers because you don't think it is fun is your decision, but suggesting that nobody in the game should be allowed to access these numbers quickly and easily because you don't like them is asinine.

 

If meters existed in the game and you didn't enjoy using them, there is absolutely no reason why you could just ignore them. Give people who enjoy the idea of competition, and trying to be elite at what they do the option.

[trublmaker]

There are definitely people that think you can not beat a boss without a DPS meter.

 

There are also people that can beat the boss without a DPS meter.

 

There are finally people that can't beat a boss without a DPS meter, because they don't know who is holding them back.(this is my issue)

 

I am having trouble beating NM bosses because I have no way to judge who is holding us back. If you know a way I can fix this please let me know.

Damn these people holding you back from MMO greatness!

 

You have provided a thread chock full of reasons the developers should never consider adding these devices. You have repeatedly cited the example; find out who is holding me/us back, but fail to acknowledge the possibility YOU could be the one at fault.

 

You want the gadget to point fingers.

[Buur]

How can you possibly say it's group based but want to hold individuals accountable? if you're looking to hold people accountable in a game, f*** knows what you'd be like with a managerial role in a large company.

 

So, let me get this right. You are saying you should hold the whole group accountable rather than try and find out the weak links? Or you are saying no one should ever be held accountable and we should all pat each other on the back and say "Don't worry guys! We'll get em next time!

 

I'm sorry, I work in IT. And damn right individuals are held accountable. Everyone has their role and are expected to perform it.

[Happylol]

Willing to do anything?

 

If you're 100% sure it's a dps issue (No one dead, but die to enrage timer):

 

On a per-AC basis; use a stopwatch and time kills on single strong mobs. Use at least 50 trials on the same strong mobs (chose those without stuns). Divide mob health by time in seconds to get DPS.

 

Compare these stats.

 

 

The only difference between an ingame meter and having one for you would be doing the math yourself.

 

 

 

Also, if no one is dying try dropping a healer into DPS.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, however this does not solve any issue.

 

Some classes have incredibly higher burst damage than others, some classes perform better in raid situations, and some classes are just overall better than others.

 

It would be useless to attack strong mobs.

[Buur]

On a per-AC basis; use a stopwatch and time kills on single strong mobs. Use at least 50 trials on the same strong mobs (chose those without stuns). Divide mob health by time in seconds to get DPS.

 

rofl.

[Setanian]

Mr. Titanten,

 

Have you killed any bosses currently on Nightmare modes?

 

By the way, I agree with your point on DPS does not matter if you kill the boss.

 

If player A is pulling 3k DPS, and player B is pulling 1k, and you end up killing the boss great!

 

The problem lies when you don't kill the boss.

 

Also,

 

I have been playing with some of these peolpe for 4 years in a top 100 world/top10US guild. I doubt any of them have troubles and say things like, "omg I keep dying to this quest".

 

I am not sure why you think I am playing with incompetent players, but I can assure you I am not.

 

Then you don't need add-ons, meters or anything else. I mean really, I played in #3 raid guild world wide on EQ, without ever needing any of that crap. We still knew who was off-form in any given evening. We didn't need to call them aside, we didn't need to hold hands and sing the hallelujah chorus to get things done.

 

Face facts, if you can't play against the content presented to you at launch, in a PuG for God's sake, you really shouldn't be playing this game. Maybe there is some other easier to play for you.

[Happylol]

Damn these people holding you back from MMO greatness!

 

You have provided a thread chock full of reasons the developers should never consider adding these devices. You have repeatedly cited the example; find out who is holding me/us back, but fail to acknowledge the possibility YOU could be the one at fault.

 

You want the gadget to point fingers.

 

I don't want it to point fingers... I want it to be able to point a finger.

 

Without knowing who is holding us back, it is impossible as a group to improve.

 

I am a healer, so although I could be the one holding us back, I can virtually guarantee I am not.

[TItanten]

How does one know 100% it is a DPS problem unless you can see peoples DPS?

 

 

I told you already.

 

If you have no one die, but wipe because you hit the enrage timer. That's probably a dps problem.

 

Now why it's a dps problem is another thing.

 

Is your tank undergeared causing you to need an extra healer?

 

Is your dps undergeared?

 

Does your dps suck?

 

Are you trying to clear endgame content a month after the game went live?

[Massatsu]

I'm a firm believer in no mods period, ever. If you need them to compare anything you're just a number crunching no talent waste. I've seen tons of people "top damage charts" but didn't know how to play their class worth a lick. Just because you figured out the rotation to get you the highest shiny numbers? Oooo. Yeah right. Leave Recount and all the other useless garbage like this out of the game.

[xHueyx]

Damn these people holding you back from MMO greatness!

 

You have provided a thread chock full of reasons the developers should never consider adding these devices. You have repeatedly cited the example; find out who is holding me/us back, but fail to acknowledge the possibility YOU could be the one at fault.

 

You want the gadget to point fingers.

 

 

 

Just because you don't strive to be the best in the game at something doesn't mean there aren't people who do.

 

If meters existed, you could chose whether or not to use them. You could simply ignore them completely, and from the sounds of it you would.

 

Why do people who oppose meters insist on even giving people who enjoy them the option of having them? What do you personally have to lose if meters are in the game if you are never going to use them anyways?

 

Maybe you are just scared to have your feelings hurt.

[Setanian]

So, let me get this right. You are saying you should hold the whole group accountable rather than try and find out the weak links? Or you are saying no one should ever be held accountable and we should all pat each other on the back and say "Don't worry guys! We'll get em next time!

 

I'm sorry, I work in IT. And damn right individuals are held accountable. Everyone has their role and are expected to perform it.

 

This is just inanely boring. I wrote my first program in '79, that mean damn all in the current context.

 

You 'work' in IT, that's cool, you don't 'work' in a game. If you are going to hold people accountable in a PuG, I pity you, as you left the whole 'game' idea behind some time ago, and should not really be in a group at all, unless they're all willing to be 'accountable' to each other.

 

If the group mess up, f*** up , whatever, leave it be and try again with different people. You don't have to be constantly watching other people to pick the one you want to hold accountable.

 

It makes me sad to think there are people like you on this game and I might run into you.

[TItanten]

Thanks for the suggestion, however this does not solve any issue.

 

Some classes have incredibly higher burst damage than others, some classes perform better in raid situations, and some classes are just overall better than others.

 

It would be useless to attack strong mobs.

 

Of course some do better in raids, but it will give you a baseline comparison between players of each AC.

 

You wanted to find the weak link.

 

This will let you know if Scoundrel A is beating the crap out of Scoundrel B.

 

The general mechanics of the fight will let you know (if your group isn't blind) if some ACs perform better than others. (Lots of movement, boss cleaves, Melee might not be the best).

[xHueyx]

I told you already.

 

If you have no one die, but wipe because you hit the enrage timer. That's probably a dps problem.

 

Now why it's a dps problem is another thing.

 

Is your tank undergeared causing you to need an extra healer?

 

Is your dps undergeared?

 

Does your dps suck?

 

Are you trying to clear endgame content a month after the game went live?

 

 

 

It's nice that you cherry picked one single sentence from my post instead of responding to the real underlying point of it.

 

Meters being in the game does not force you to use them. Why do you insist on not letting people choose whether or not they want to use them?

 

Why do you insist that people should not have the option to choose for themselves as to whether or not to use them. How does having meters in the game effect your ability to not use meters at all?

[Kaarina]

Just because you don't strive to be the best in the game at something doesn't mean there aren't people who do.

 

If meters existed, you could chose whether or not to use them. You could simply ignore them completely, and from the sounds of it you would.

 

Why do people who oppose meters insist on even giving people who enjoy them the option of having them? What do you personally have to lose if meters are in the game if you are never going to use them anyways?

 

Maybe you are just scared to have your feelings hurt.

 

 

Maybe not you mate, as I am not saying it is, but alot of people will require others use cookie cutter chars or not be allowed in groups. It is bs if people do not now how to play with out them, they should work on that and not qqing on the thread.

 

And me not using it will not stop you from looking in my good bag (my dps)....if it is something only I can see mine and you can see yours..fine but do not ruin this game like they did ever other game

 

 

 

I want my EPENIEE to be the biggest and best.. I need my mod

[Setanian]

I don't want it to point fingers... I want it to be able to point a finger.

 

Without knowing who is holding us back, it is impossible as a group to improve.

 

I am a healer, so although I could be the one holding us back, I can virtually guarantee I am not.

 

You are holding yourself back. You should only play with players at the same competency level as your own, who need training wheels to win.

[TItanten]

It's nice that you cherry picked one single sentence from my post instead of responding to the real underlying point of it.

 

Meters being in the game does not force you to use them. Why do you insist on not letting people choose whether or not they want to use them?

 

Why do you insist that people should not have the option to choose for themselves as to whether or not to use them. How does having meters in the game effect your ability to not use meters at all?

 

1st off:

 

I'm against all Mods, so opening the game up to an outside DPS meter will invariably let other mods be developed.

 

2nd:

 

Because we have a bunch of idiots that migrated over here from WoW and think that having a decent DPS number makes you good. This attitude is something that should be fought.

 

3rd:

 

Because I'm rather oldschool in the opinion that if you can't figure it out yourself then you're bad. I'd personally love it if they took DMCA claims against all wiki and guide sites.

 

4th:

 

Once meters are out they impact EVERYONES gameplay. You all saw the morons in WoW after recount became mandatory and god help us about Gearscore.

 

"LF2 dps for Athiss, 1400 dps mandatory! We'll kick you!"

[xHueyx]

Maybe not you mate, as I am not saying it is, but alot of people will require others use cookie cutter chars or not be allowed in groups.

 

How? I can't look at your spec. I can look at your gear, but that's it.

 

Even then your gear isn't necessarily an indicator of your skill, and if someone is going to not let you into a group based on your gear or spec, they are going to do it regardless of meters.

[Setanian]

 

Why do people who oppose meters insist on even giving people who enjoy them the option of having them? What do you personally have to lose if meters are in the game if you are never going to use them anyways?

 

 

Because they play for enjoyment and then one day they need a group to get a class mission done or something like that and along come Mr. Elitist on Training Wheels telling them they need to re-spec, get new rotations cuz their dps suxorz! Lolz lrn2ply wow ****.

 

That's one reason..

[Fissile]

You are holding yourself back. You should only play with players at the same competency level as your own, who need training wheels to win.

Please, stop with the trolling.

 

Recount, etc. provide accurate, objective methods of measuring all sorts of metrics.

 

What people do with those metrics is something else entirely.

 

Some will troll and be douches with the information, but that doesn't make the information less important or useful.

[ferroz]

Maybe not you mate, as I am not saying it is, but alot of people currently require others use cookie cutter chars or not be allowed in groups.

Fixed that for you. Meters have nothing to do with requiring cookie cutter characters.

 

And me not using it will not stop you from looking in my good bag (my dps)....if it is something only I can see mine and you can see yours..fine but do not ruin this game like they did ever other game

Would you like a do-over to try and make this a valid statement of some sort? Is it supposed to be english?

[xHueyx]

1st off:

 

I'm against all Mods, so opening the game up to an outside DPS meter will invariably let other mods be developed.

 

Incorrect, BioWare could easily develop their own meter and put it into the game. They don't have to open up the game to mods to have a damage meter in the game.

 

Also I don't understand how you can say that if someone as a DPSer is doing poor DPS that they are still doing a good job. Their job is to DPS. If their DPS is low, they are doing a poor job. I am not going to make someone feel bad for being a bad DPSer, but as a tank, I would like to be in groups with DPS that are at least competent.