Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Knyghtprowler]

Why would anyone agree to this BS? If company blindly follows forums, which none of them do. Then they have a problem. Majority of rtards thinking that XX class is OP does not lead to nerfs. Internal testing does. You fail to make connection between majority opinion and actual game changes....

 

You're funny, how many MMO's you been playing?

 

The companies have NO choice but to follow the community - BW has plenty of posts around here SAYING they read a lot of threads to see how the community feels on things like this.

 

The game grows with every patch and x-pack, that growth is a direct result of FEEDBACK from their players and what vehicle do you think they will use? The forums

 

Sure ranting here may not cause a change without testing and evidence, but if we make a loud enough rant here and there is a huge following with 1000's of posts, you can be SURE bioware will look at it in game and begin testing to see if we are full of it or not. More times than not if the community screams IMBA!!!!! the class is in fact IMBA.

 

Reading your post I can not find one shred of info that is even remotely close to correct.

[Seriasx]

I disagree totally - constant balancing is mandatory in MMO's, people find rotations that achieve higher than normal Heals or DPS and it must be changed to balance things out. In balancing that class another class steps up as the "dominant" class and they must be balanced.

 

This level of balancing has been going on for years. If it didn't people like me would find the best class and play it - tons of other people would do the same and certain classes just wouldn't get used.

 

The best performance of anything can only be measured if it is VISIBLE. Keeping it invisible to the public just hurts the game, it doesn't help it IMO.

 

If recount showed every Consular outhealing every other healing class in the game via Recount - I would expect my consular to be nerfed, simple as that.

 

And what if you were outhealing them because your type of healing was better suited when it came to splash dmg type of healing where the guy who was better at preventative healing only shined when it came to single target focus dmg?

 

Would he be less valuable because his numbers are lower then yours or would you need to be nerfed because you were better able to heal dmg that really doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things?

 

 

Those are the details I'm talking about that you, I and some others grasp while the majority simply do not.

 

 

But I'll stop here, enough of you disagree with me and I'll accept that, please don't think I'm against this recount because I want to be mean or rude to you guys its just my opinion on the matter.

 

I hope you guys have as much fun in this game as I am, good luck to you all : D

[trublmaker]

Wow you really are dense and will say the first thing that comes to mind just to argue. Yes I am, as with EVERY MMO things are not balanced and need to be tweaked. There is not a single MMO ever where classes came out perfect. Changes happen to gear, abilities, mechanics so things need to be adjusted as such.

 

Input from customers helps.

Actually, I have been civil and supported mods initially. You have thrown insults to not only me, but others who have voiced honest concerns. It's not necessary to insult everyone with a different opinion. You want mods, we get that.

[PjPablo]

You're funny, how many MMO's you been playing?

 

The companies have NO choice but to follow the community - BW has plenty of posts around here SAYING they read a lot of threads to see how the community feels on things like this.

 

The game grows with every patch and x-pack, that growth is a direct result of FEEDBACK from their players and what vehicle do you think they will use? The forums

 

Sure ranting here may not cause a change without testing and evidence, but if we make a loud enough rant here and there is a huge following with 1000's of posts, you can be SURE bioware will look at it in game and begin testing to see if we are full of it or not. More times than not if the community screams IMBA!!!!! the class is in fact IMBA.

 

Reading your post I can not find one shred of info that is even remotely close to correct.

 

Aren't you agreeing with him? People complain, Company tests or Players provide data, Company makes changes if warranted / doesn't if not. I might be getting tired but seems like you guys are on the same page.

[Beastfury]

Ok well let me list the mmos where the majority of players who were incapable of understanding the detail as you and see them had the most influence and the most weight when it came to changes being made.

 

All of them.

 

There is a huge difference between catering to popular demand (which is necessary for company to be successful) and following misguided masses. You still fail to make the connection.

[Remidi]

Actually, I have been civil and supported mods initially. You have thrown insults to not only me, but others who have voiced honest concerns. It's not necessary to insult everyone with a different opinion. You want mods, we get that.

 

I have not insulted any one in any way. I am sorry you can't handle someone being blunt and honest. I am not going to sugar coat what I type with smily faces and pleases and thank yous. I am typing as an adult would in a conversation. I am sorry that your opinion is based on bad knowledge. You have proven in the replies YOU have typed in this thread that you do not fully understand how meters/combat logs work. So by me typing this fact I am a jerk/insulting? All you are doing is proving exactly what I typed. So by all means continue...

Edited January 10, 2012 by Remidi

[AlpsStranger]

Actually, I have been civil and supported mods initially. You have thrown insults to not only me, but others who have voiced honest concerns.

 

Go back and look at their "honest concerns". It amounts to insults and fear mongering.

[GreenTuque]

I do not support an in game dps meter.

 

Reason: To many players are not able to prevent it from becoming the end all be all of the game itself.

[MusedMark]

i personally do not care either way, i use em if they are there and read theorycraft regardless.

 

However, am i right in my belief that end game content is already being farmed (even hard and insane - if it is insane..).

 

I am seeing valid arguments for and against this, but (sadly) those gunning for it are coming of worse due to the idiots adding their destructive voices to the fray.

[AlpsStranger]

I am seeing valid arguments for and against this, but (sadly) those gunning for it are coming of worse due to the idiots adding their destructive voices to the fray.

 

Destructive voices? Like Fus-Ro-Dah!?

[Remidi]

I do not support an in game dps meter.

 

Reason: To many players are not able to prevent it from becoming the end all be all of the game itself.

 

Then you do not play with those people.

No raiding guild that sets a schedule to raid does what you are implying.

/solved

[MusedMark]

Destructive voices? Like Fus-Ro-Dah!?

 

and now i have arrows in my..head... thanks!

[Remidi]

i personally do not care either way, i use em if they are there and read theorycraft regardless.

 

However, am i right in my belief that end game content is already being farmed (even hard and insane - if it is insane..).

 

I am seeing valid arguments for and against this, but (sadly) those gunning for it are coming of worse due to the idiots adding their destructive voices to the fray.

 

Yes we all need to add smiley faces to everything we type when every argument against the OP is based on wrong opinions and incorrect knowledge.

 

 

Since when is telling it how it is bad? Stop being so sensitive.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Remidi

[Beastfury]

You're funny, how many MMO's you been playing?

 

The companies have NO choice but to follow the community - BW has plenty of posts around here SAYING they read a lot of threads to see how the community feels on things like this.

 

The game grows with every patch and x-pack, that growth is a direct result of FEEDBACK from their players and what vehicle do you think they will use? The forums

 

Sure ranting here may not cause a change without testing and evidence, but if we make a loud enough rant here and there is a huge following with 1000's of posts, you can be SURE bioware will look at it in game and begin testing to see if we are full of it or not. More times than not if the community screams IMBA!!!!! the class is in fact IMBA.

 

Reading your post I can not find one shred of info that is even remotely close to correct.

 

You lost me somewhere... So you saying there is 1000th post saying class is IMBA. So they test it internally and it turns out it is IMBA so they nerf it... Where am i wrong? I said internal tests lead to nerfs not misguided masses. If masses were raving about legitimate issue that internal testing proved, then they were hardly misguided were they?

[MusedMark]

Yes we all need to add smiley faces to everything we type when every argument against the OP is based on wrong opinions and incorrect knowledge.

 

 

Since when is telling it how it is bad? Stop being so sensitive.

 

I think you mis-understand the point i made, but its all good!

 

Here, have a hug

[trublmaker]

I have not insulted any one in any way. I am sorry you can't handle someone being blunt and honest. I am not going to sugar coat what I type with smily faces and pleases and thank yous. I am typing as an adult would in a conversation. I am sorry that your opinion is based on bad knowledge. You have proven in the replies YOU have typed in this thread that you do not fully understand how meters/combat logs work. So by me typing this fact I am a jerk/insulting? All you are doing is proving exactly what I typed. So by all means continue...

Show me this "proof" regarding my lack of knowledge please. There is a thread full of your "honesty"

 

Just because I have never played WoW does not mean I do not understand a combat log or how a raid functions. And for all intents and purposes a combat log will provide you all the tools you need.

[PjPablo]

You lost me somewhere... So you saying there is 1000th post saying class is IMBA. So they test it internally and it turns out it is IMBA so they nerf it... Where am i wrong? I said internal tests lead to nerfs not misguided masses. If masses were raving about legitimate issue that internal testing proved, then they were hardly misguided were they?

 

LOL

 

Which is why I posted you guys were actually agreeing.

[IAmTrilkin]

Is this the thread where bads claim they were removed from groups for being only SLIGHTLY lower than the top performers? Because those bads are also liars. People don't get removed from groups/raids unless they're standing in the hurty ****, doing EXTREMELY piss poor DPS (~40% less of what's expected of you or more) and nothing else, are outright AFK or or otherwise bad players.

 

PUG leaders who kick people for only slight performance issues rapidly get a bad reputation and are generally poor leaders in general and become marginal anyway since their runs often lead to failure or a lot of aggravation.. They are FEW and FAR in between. If you find yourself getting kicked from raids more often than not, it is something YOU'RE doing and is not the fault of the metric as the metric seems to work fine for everybody else, considering how many people are decked out in purples in WoW and Rift. Nobody wants to carry someone who isn't pulling their weight, regardless of the circumstances.

 

MMOs are VERY low skill ceiling games. They don't require very much to play other than paying attention and reacting according to the rather straight forward cues the game gives you and knowing the proper rotation for your spec. There are some smaller nuances that definitely separate good players from great players, but those nuances aren't required for success. The average player can easily complete any of the content in most any current generation MMO with proper coordination, gear and a little bit of knowledge.

 

Recount does not exclude you from raids. You exclude yourself with bad playing. Recount allows so many more benefits and gives players an actual, numerical metric. It also aids in game content - do you really think internal testing is going to be able to catch EVERYTHING? Do you really trust devs to be honest in their claims of improvement or nerfing? Do you really think a small number of eyes looking at a particular piece of content or a particular class is better than a larger number? Combat logs in general, when parsed, allow the player base to offer feedback and illustrate things that may have been lost in internal testing. It also allows the min/maxers to actually enjoy the game the fullest the way they play it and the population of those, if this thread is any indication, is much larger than most think.

[Kfab]

Or there's something random that occurred that caused player A to kill the add faster this particualr time.

 

So...

• More dps?
  
• Easier add?
  
• Something random?
  

 

Give us the definitive answer, one that is sure to be true.

 

Eh, if you're using this as a counter argument, it just makes it look like you're arguing with a strawman.

 

No, your own numbers are not helpful without the context of the group as whole.

 

So, you are going to use it to micromanage everyone else in the group? I'm not totally against it if it is used as a teaching tool or for someone who wants to improve. The thing I'm against is, "ZOMGLOOKATURDPSBADDIEURBADGTFO". Frankly, this is why I left WoW, now I see the same crowd here.

 

I guess I figure as long as the boss is downed, who cares how as long as everyone is having fun.

[PjPablo]

Is this the thread where bads claim they were removed from groups for being only SLIGHTLY lower than the top performers? Because those bads are also liars. People don't get removed from groups/raids unless they're standing in the hurty ****, doing EXTREMELY piss poor DPS (~40% less of what's expected of you or more) and nothing else, are outright AFK or or otherwise bad players.

 

PUG leaders who kick people for only slight performance issues rapidly get a bad reputation and are generally poor leaders in general and become marginal anyway since their runs often lead to failure or a lot of aggravation.. They are FEW and FAR in between. If you find yourself getting kicked from raids more often than not, it is something YOU'RE doing and is not the fault of the metric as the metric seems to work fine for everybody else, considering how many people are decked out in purples in WoW and Rift. Nobody wants to carry someone who isn't pulling their weight, regardless of the circumstances.

 

MMOs are VERY low skill ceiling games. They don't require very much to play other than paying attention and reacting according to the rather straight forward cues the game gives you and knowing the proper rotation for your spec. There are some smaller nuances that definitely separate good players from great players, but those nuances aren't required for success. The average player can easily complete any of the content in most any current generation MMO with proper coordination, gear and a little bit of knowledge.

 

Recount does not exclude you from raids. You exclude yourself with bad playing. Recount allows so many more benefits and gives players an actual, numerical metric. It also aids in game content - do you really think internal testing is going to be able to catch EVERYTHING? Do you really trust devs to be honest in their claims of improvement or nerfing? Do you really think a small number of eyes looking at a particular piece of content or a particular class is better than a larger number? Combat logs in general, when parsed, allow the player base to offer feedback and illustrate things that may have been lost in internal testing. It also allows the min/maxers to actually enjoy the game the fullest the way they play it and the population of those, if this thread is any indication, is much larger than most think.

 

I'm with you in spirit here but the bombastic style with which you wrote that only gets used against you as evidence against allowing meters. There are more than enough reasons for meters to be in game without resorting to the 'Bads' argument.

[Remidi]

So, you are going to use it to micromanage everyone else in the group? I'm not totally against it if it is used as a teaching tool or for someone who wants to improve. The thing I'm against is, "ZOMGLOOKATURDPSBADDIEURBADGTFO". Frankly, this is why I left WoW, now I see the same crowd here.

 

I guess I figure as long as the boss is downed, who cares how as long as everyone is having fun.

 

Where are you seeing this crowd? Is the complaint against you?

I have yet to see any of this. I play ALL day lol.

Today is the first day I had to kick someone from my HM BT group because we could not clear it with his bad dps and not knowing how to turn around and run.

 

Ya see I don't always need meters. When someone does not know how to hold down the right mouse button and turn 180 degrees and press W I am kicking them. I bet he is against meters as well. So am I being a jerk because someone that does not know *** he is doing is wasting other peoples time? Not imo. I did what I had to do for the group.

 

So again where are you seeing this?

Edited January 10, 2012 by Remidi

[PjPablo]

So, you are going to use it to micromanage everyone else in the group? I'm not totally against it if it is used as a teaching tool or for someone who wants to improve. The thing I'm against is, "ZOMGLOOKATURDPSBADDIEURBADGTFO". Frankly, this is why I left WoW, now I see the same crowd here.

 

I guess I figure as long as the boss is downed, who cares how as long as everyone is having fun.

 

'Micromanage' is overkill. And honestly unless it is progression raiding or doing some testing on dummies a lot of people don't even refer to a meter in group. I don't even pull mine up in pugs unless something is going horribly wrong and it isn't obvious whats up (In smaller groups it usually is obvious).

 

AND if anyone one in any group I am in throws a ZOMGLOOKATURDPSBADDIEURBADGTFO out there...insta kick. Players are jerks, not meters.

[Aaluria]

Yes we all need to add smiley faces to everything we type when every argument against the OP is based on wrong opinions and incorrect knowledge.

 

 

Since when is telling it how it is bad? Stop being so sensitive.

 

This is exactly what the other poster was talking about this 'attitude' of yours, the attitude is that you are right and everyone else is wrong attitude. You are telling people their opinions and experiences don't count because you personally have never experienced it. This game in MY OPINION doesn't need these programs, because IN MY OPINION they breed a certain type of individual that DOESN'T listen to what other people have problems with. YOU are exactly the reason why so many of us dislike these programs with your ATTiTUDE. Now doyou understand?

[Kfab]

Where are you seeing this crowd? Is the complaint against you?

I have yet to see any of this. I play ALL day lol.

Today is the first day I had to kick someone from my HM BT group because we could not clear it with his bad dps and not knowing how to turn around and run.

 

Ya see I don't always need meters. When someone does not know how to hold down the right mouse button and turn 180 degrees and press W I am kicking them. I bet he is against meters as well.

 

So again where are you seeing this?

 

Ooops, I should correct myself. I'm saying that I don't want to see the crap that people sling at each other over dps meters here like I did in WoW. I guess the tone of some of the posts before me is leading me to believe that this community may start to sway that way if a recount meter is implemented.

 

Like I said, I'm not totally against it. I used recount to measure my dps and heals. I also used it as a way to improve my own performance in raids. I just didn't hold it against another raid member because maybe they were just a smidge below the top dps.

[trublmaker]

This is exactly what the other poster was talking about this 'attitude' of yours, the attitude is that you are right and everyone else is wrong attitude. You are telling people their opinions and experiences don't count because you personally have never experienced it. This game in MY OPINION doesn't need these programs, because IN MY OPINION they breed a certain type of individual that DOESN'T listen to what other people have problems with. YOU are exactly the reason why so many of us dislike these programs with your ATTiTUDE. Now doyou understand?

 

 

This +1

 

 

 

 

Thank you. I'm out...