LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Taroen]

Villainizing the tool that Blizzard put into WoW is completely ridiculous.

The tool didn't destroy any community. It didn't cause people to ninja items or be rude to each other. The tool didn't cause the game to become a 'lobby game', as some people are calling it.

 

Yes it did, to both counts. People will roll need on anything just to vendor it sometimes to be a horse's behind just because they know that you either deal with it or deal with the dungeon finder cooldown and then queue for another group. They're rude, and obnoxious, and it is almost ENTIRELY because they know they'll never see the people in their group again. People are sitting around in cities chatting while they wait for their random instance to pop so they can rush in and get free loot... LOBBY GAME.

 

 

What the tool did was allow people to play World of Warcraft the way that Blizzard wanted people to play it.

They wanted to give people at max level something to do, and as of WotLK, running dungeons was something that most people (the non raiders, especially) could easily do. The Tool just let people do it more quickly, without constantly spamming the general chat.

By making the dungeons so rewarding, and providing a tool to provide extremely easy access, Blizzard made the focus of the end game into running dungeons.

That's what people spent all their time doing, because that's what Blizzard made the game all about.

 

They accomplished that by dumbing down all of the content so that a random group of Joe's had a fair chance to complete it. When Cata released some of the content was actually fairly rough until the LFD crowd whined that they weren't able to faceroll through it. Blizzard nerfed the hell out of everything and the game is boring as hell as a result. I will never play that game again. They gave me seven free days right before the launch of swtor and even though I tried, I can't even look at it anymore.

 

 

If a similar tool was implemented into SWTOR, the only way the game's focus would be about flashpoints would be is if that's what Bioware intended. If their intent is for people to do quests, then they won't make the flashpoints more rewarding than the missions, or they'd give the players something else more rewarding to do.

 

The only way to progress through SWTOR is by doing the class quests. A LFD tool isn't going to change that at all.

In WoW, someone could level from 15-85 just using the LFD tool and never leaving town. But guess what? These aren't the same games, and they have completely different mechanics to them. So why do people keep claiming that bringing a tool from one game to another means they're going to have the same effect on this game as it did in another game? It's ridiculous!

 

What's ridiculous is doing the same thing over again and thinking it will lead to different results.

 

 

One thing that the LFD tool did a great job at was letting the player know just what dungeons were available for which level. In SWTOR, there's nothing that tells you this information. I never know which one is right for which alt, where they are, how to get to them, or if I've just leveled past their relevance. A proper LFD tool could go a long way towards improving the leveling experience for everyone.

 

That's crazy. There are flashpoint couriers on every planet in multiple places and all over the fleet. All you do is talk to them and get the quest and it tells you what level it is. If you don't know this then you're just not paying attention.

 

In conclusion, if you don't want Bioware to make SWTOR just about chain-running heroics all day, then focus on that. Don't put the blame on a tool that could be a very useful utility if designed and implemented properly.

 

For lower level content and runs that the majority has already passed, sure. But not for top level stuff. If you want to run flashpoints then get a real group and learn the encounters, instead of dumbing them down for the random faceroll groups to farm free epix.

[HoneyBoy]

For lower level content and runs that the majority has already passed, sure. But not for top level stuff. If you want to run flashpoints then get a real group and learn the encounters, instead of dumbing them down for the random faceroll groups to farm free epix.

 

People here are asking for a LFG tool, not for a nerf to content. You're arguing with yourself.

[Thorun]

I'm not fond of pugs, that's true... But I play a LOT (I'm homebound) and I have a 50 and several smaller toons. I'm kind of forced to pug sometimes. My guild just doesn't have enough people to satisfy my gaming addiction. I find a lot of people close to the heroic 2+ or 4 and ask them directly if they're interested in doing it. Most of the time I get a positive response. Sometimes I skip one or two because I level past it. My friends list is growing... and... unlike in WoW, my ignore list is actually much smaller than my friends list.

 

I LIKE this game... A LOT. I don't want to see it turned into a lobby game, ala WoW.

 

Betcha Bioware, the shareholders and EA want it to turn into wow ala MONEY MAKER

[savagepotato]

So what? If a player wanted to level up by chaining dungeons through the dungeon finder instead of questing or pvping why the hell do you care? Does that rob you of your fun or something? If a similar tool was implemented into SWTOR, just don't use it, don't force your ideas of playstyle onto someone else in an MMO like this that's meant to reach a broader audience. How hard is that?

 

Because if you make it the standard you change the face of the game.

 

Monkey see monkey do, and people will follow the path of least resistance.

 

Would you enjoy playing a game of chess where you have the option to just move whatever piece wherever you feel like because you wouldn't want to hamper anyone's choice about how they play the game?

 

No, a game must have rules and follow a direction or there is no longer a point to it.

[jettemakaron]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

I dont know what kind of people u got in your groups but i rarely get a group that disband, and i dident notice any change is peoples behavior.

 

Atm i dont even use /1 when im at the fleet at peak hours because all u see is people spam about flashpoints.

[savagepotato]

People here are asking for a LFG tool, not for a nerf to content. You're arguing with yourself.

 

Come on man, read what he said for crying out loud.

 

Just oblivious... like a brick wall seriously.

[Zodnom]

 

They accomplished that by dumbing down all of the content so that a random group of Joe's had a fair chance to complete it. When Cata released some of the content was actually fairly rough until the LFD crowd whined that they weren't able to faceroll through it. Blizzard nerfed the hell out of everything and the game is boring as hell as a result. I will never play that game again. They gave me seven free days right before the launch of swtor and even though I tried, I can't even look at it anymore.

 

lol

 

"The LFD Crowd"... Did they actually identify themselves to you when they were registering their official complaints?

This entire paragraph (minus your emotional breakdown of regret at leaving WoW) is such complete generalization that I don't know if you're serious anymore, or just trolling at this point.

 

Lose some of the emotional outbursts, and come back when you're ready to have an actual discussion, minus the drama.

[Kurnea]

You are mixing two comparisons.

 

The hardcore raid community is a completely separate entity and hardly related. The hardcore raiders seldom even interact outside the circle of their guild. They are a bubble unto themselves.

 

When did I say anything about hardcore? Any good raiding guilds, whether they be casual or hardcore, friendly or competitive, are going to care about reputation. Same goes for pvp guilds, roleplaying guilds, or any social activities in WoW that depend on forming groups or meeting people on your server.

 

I said when I first replied to you that the anonymity that you're complaining about is exclusive to cross-server content. Once you try to form a group with people on your own server, that anonymity is gone. The problems in LFD are exclusive to the time you spend running LFD.

[Taroen]

People here are asking for a LFG tool, not for a nerf to content. You're arguing with yourself.

 

One begets the other.

 

If LFD random instance finder is the norm, then the content needs to be completable by random groups. Faceroll. Boring.

 

Learn to meet people in the game. Join a guild. Stop trying to force a multiplayer game into your single player mindset.

 

You might as well drop into an instance with 3 companions. At least you would have more connection to them and know their capabilities.

[savagepotato]

lol

 

"The LFD Crowd"... Did they actually identify themselves to you when they were registering their official complaints?

This entire paragraph (minus your emotional breakdown of regret at leaving WoW) is such complete generalization that I don't know if you're serious anymore, or just trolling at this point.

 

Lose some of the emotional outbursts, and come back when you're ready to have an actual discussion, minus the drama.

 

He's right and there is nothing dramatic about what he posted.

 

People went insane when cataclysm launched and they couldn't faceroll heroics. And they complained until they could again.

[donnajuan]

Because if you make it the standard you change the face of the game.

 

Monkey see monkey do, and people will follow the path of least resistance.

 

Would you enjoy playing a game of chess where you have the option to just move whatever piece wherever you feel like because you wouldn't want to hamper anyone's choice about how they play the game?

 

No, a game must have rules and follow a direction or there is no longer a point to it.

 

Now this is the most ridiculous argument ever. People have PvP'd to for most of their levels whats the difference between that and chaining dungeons. TBH, anyone can see all the effort is in the flashpoints since all this game questing is is kill and fetch quests with voice acting.

 

A LFG tool doesn't change the games rules it makes it so you can simply not stand in the republic fleet twiddling your thumbs, or be stuck on a planet trying to get a group for a Heroic 4. No one is asking for nerfed content. Just a tool that makes proper teams so people can get groups easily. Why is this a bad thing? Do you really like spamming in General or hoping someone uses the basically hidden /who functions (that is all the LFG tool is).

Edited January 10, 2012 by donnajuan

[jettemakaron]

Because if you make it the standard you change the face of the game.

 

Monkey see monkey do, and people will follow the path of least resistance.

 

Would you enjoy playing a game of chess where you have the option to just move whatever piece wherever you feel like because you wouldn't want to hamper anyone's choice about how they play the game?

 

No, a game must have rules and follow a direction or there is no longer a point to it.

 

compare swtor to chess?, u really empty of arguments arent u?

[savagepotato]

When did I say anything about hardcore? Any good raiding guilds, whether they be casual or hardcore, friendly or competitive, are going to care about reputation. Same goes for pvp guilds, roleplaying guilds, or any social activities in WoW that depend on forming groups or meeting people on your server.

 

I said when I first replied to you that the anonymity that you're complaining about is exclusive to cross-server content. Once you try to form a group with people on your own server, that anonymity is gone. The problems in LFD are exclusive to the time you spend running LFD.

 

That's the thing, no one forms a group with the people on their own server at that point. It becomes almost non existent and the dungeon finder simply rules all.

 

I've seen people get laughed at for even trying to look for a group in WoW.

[HoneyBoy]

Because if you make it the standard you change the face of the game.

 

Monkey see monkey do, and people will follow the path of least resistance.

 

Again SO WHAT!? Does knowing that people being presented with multiple choices of how to enjoy the game and not picking the way you feel should be forced upon them really hurt you in any way?

 

Would you enjoy playing a game of chess where you have the option to just move whatever piece wherever you feel like because you wouldn't want to hamper anyone's choice about how they play the game?

 

No, a game must have rules and follow a direction or there is no longer a point to it.[/Quote]

 

No because then it would no longer be Chess by definition. Chess is also a game with a static ruleset.

 

MMORPG's are not.

 

WoW is still WoW even with all the updates they've done over the years. SWTOR will still be SWTOR even if they add in a LFD tool.

[Halbe]

That's the thing, no one forms a group with the people on their own server at that point. It becomes almost non existent and the dungeon finder simply rules all.

 

I've seen people get laughed at for even trying to look for a group in WoW.

 

Are you against a single server LFD tool? I'm trying to make out your opinion on it through all the haze, but your problem seems to lie in the idea of cross-server grouping.

[Kurnea]

Because if you make it the standard you change the face of the game.

 

Monkey see monkey do, and people will follow the path of least resistance.

 

And by that very logic people are learning to avoid forming groups unless absolutely neccessary, especially for flashpoints. I've skipped a few flashpoints so far simply because it's been far easier to level by treating this game like a single-player game.

 

Also, fun fact, LFD in WoW now prioritizes finding people from your own server. I've actually run into people I knew doing LFD.

Would you enjoy playing a game of chess where you have the option to just move whatever piece wherever you feel like because you wouldn't want to hamper anyone's choice about how they play the game?

 

No, a game must have rules and follow a direction or there is no longer a point to it.

 

You're talking about changes to gameplay, something completely different. A more relevant analogy nowadays would be restricting chess players from finding other players on the net because internet searches are way too convenient and fast.

[savagepotato]

Again SO WHAT!? Does knowing that people being presented with multiple choices of how to enjoy the game and not picking the way you feel should be forced upon them really hurt you in any way?

 

 

 

No because then it would no longer be Chess by definition. Chess is also a game with a static ruleset.

 

MMORPG's are not.

 

WoW is still WoW even with all the updates they've done over the years. SWTOR will still be SWTOR even if they add in a LFD tool.

 

Exactly it hurts my gameplay for THAT reason.

 

Because you make the change and the game is no longer what it was. Thank you for making my own argument for me.

 

I want to play a multiplayer game where community interaction is the norm, not where grinding the cross server lfd tool is the norm. Change that and you have forced change on my environment unwillingly.

[Taroen]

Betcha Bioware, the shareholders and EA want it to turn into wow ala MONEY MAKER

 

If you think a crass grab at the casual market is going to do that for them, you've got another thing coming. WoW was a good game, but even that behemoth is waning, because they've made more and more of a grab to the casual crowd, and people who actually like content that isn't faceroll are leaving. Their subscriber base is still huge, sure, but it is falling in numbers that would make other games fail out of the gate.

 

Do you want swtor to start where WoW is ending..?

 

People want interesting content, and swtor is providing it... at least they are to me. I would guess you like the game too, or you wouldn't be here. Do you really want it all to be tuned to a random group level? Because that's what will happen when the standard group is a random one. It would be interesting to you if the only content that required any coordination at all was raids? Or maybe not even them..?

 

Yeah... no thanks.

 

Find a guild. Make friends in the game. SOCIALIZE. Not just spamming general. Really socialize.

 

It's much more fun than random faceroll crap.

[savagepotato]

Are you against a single server LFD tool? I'm trying to make out your opinion on it through all the haze, but your problem seems to lie in the idea of cross-server grouping.

 

I would rather not see it automated to the point where you just click a button and wait till you are insta ported into your dungeon.

 

So no I would rather not see a duplication of the wow model here. I would prefer they come up with something new, or seriously beef up the system they have in conjunction with a global /lfg channel.

[HoneyBoy]

Exactly it hurts my gameplay for THAT reason.

 

Because you make the change and the game is no longer what it was. Thank you for making my own argument for me.

 

I want to play a multiplayer game where community interaction is the norm, not where grinding the cross server lfd tool is the norm. Change that and you have forced change on my environment unwillingly.

 

Your argument is basically

 

"I don't like LFD because then People might not play the way I want them to play"

 

That's your own personal problem, not an argument against the LFD.

 

Even with LFD nothing is stopping you from "community interaction". WoW players can still have community interaction even now.

Edited January 10, 2012 by HoneyBoy

[Zhauric]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

Someone probably said it already since there are so many pages. I agree partially. That definitely hurt WoW in the social aspect but I don't think it was the LFD tool but the fact it was cross-server. I mean why would anyone care about people you never see on your server? So folks became jerks and behaved with no consequence or simply dropped group in a blink of an eye. If it would have been same server there could have been consequence for said action because your actions effect how the community responds to you.

 

I'm not really holding a stance in the need for LFD but if implemented I definitely do not want it to be cross server nor none of that instant transport to the dungeon stuff. Don't know why but that annoyed me more than actually having to travel the distance to get to the instance.

[savagepotato]

You lost move on, no need to insult.

 

No need to troll.

 

No, I haven't lost anything, thanks for coming out.

[Kurnea]

That's the thing, no one forms a group with the people on their own server at that point. It becomes almost non existent and the dungeon finder simply rules all.

 

I've seen people get laughed at for even trying to look for a group in WoW.

 

People form their own groups all the time for raids, achievement runs, and pvp. Now if your idea of playing WoW consists solely of running heroic 5-mans, I see your point.

[Taroen]

lol

 

"The LFD Crowd"... Did they actually identify themselves to you when they were registering their official complaints?

This entire paragraph (minus your emotional breakdown of regret at leaving WoW) is such complete generalization that I don't know if you're serious anymore, or just trolling at this point.

 

Lose some of the emotional outbursts, and come back when you're ready to have an actual discussion, minus the drama.

 

YES they did actually out themselves. All of their posts were "WAH!!! I WAITED 30 MINUTES FOR MY QUEUE TO POP AND WE DIDNT EVEN GET TO FINISH THE DUNGEON!!! IT'S NOT FAIR!!! I PAY MY $15 A MONTH TOO AND I DESERVE TO DO THE CONTENT!!! FREE EPIX NAOWWWW!"

 

Blah.

 

The crying on the forums was EPIC. Please don't bring that crap here.

[sebbulba]

I really took my time reading all those LFG and LFD - threads without ever replying.

 

I'm bored now.

 

Anyways, I think an LFG / LFD tool is alright as long as they don't server-cross it.Server-crossing strenghtens anonymity. And where anonymity grows, social aspects suffer IMO. I want to get to know the people who are on my server. I want to have a reputation. I want them to have one. Thats what makes an MMO an MMO, I think.

 

SWTOR should develop the tool they have. You should be able to flag yourself for several quests or instances, and you should be visible to anybody on your server who looks for a group too. Thats enough.

 

I don't think a WoW-esque LFD-tool is necessary. As many of those convenient fast-food concepts of WoW aren't necessary (Nothing against fast food btw :-D). People act as if many of WoWs features are "must haves" and "core MMO features" but they are simply desing decisions. Nothing more.

 

I hope Bioware decides otherwise, it's just that simple.