Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Back in my day there were a lot more leaders than followers... Many people wouldn't survive a day in FFXI... Just start whispering to people yah gonna get alot of rejections, but hey it's better than sitting and spamming waiting... Initiative > laziness. The reason why many of us counting me wants the system is because of FFXI. I refuse to make a white mage just to find a group again. What works back in that time "Lmao works" does not work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The content already in the game is face roll. It's super easy when it works. The LFG tool would let more people do it. Thats it. Why don't you understand this? You said this content is hard, but its not. The game itself is not even that hard. Its a lot easier than wow is, when it comes to pretty much everything. They really can't do that much to make it easier for people. Oh you've completed it all then, have you..? I don't think you have. I thought that the content at the release of Cata was a move back towards fun. We cleared most of it in our guild pretty quickly, but it wasn't as boring as WoTLK heroics. Not at first. Then the random groups of noobs started getting to level and when they couldn't immediately faceroll through all of the heroic content, the crying was epic. The content got nerfed to hell and back, and became so boring that it wasn't worth doing. When people who want to randomly group, and not put in any effort, get to the hardmode flashpoints, they're going to fail. They're going to fail hard. And the crying will be epic. AGAIN. Yes, the hardmodes are doable without much of a problem, but they're still fun fights. Dumb it all down and it won't be. Might as well just give us a crew skill called "EPIX" and then we can all send out C2-N2 to gather up some Tionese and Columni gear for us. It would take about as much effort and time. And it would probably be more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What? Your post makes no sense. How does spamming chat promote community over a LFG tool. Both ways lead you to a group. Its in the group that you build the community, not spamming general chat. A LFG tool gets a player in groups at a faster rate. Why would a LFG tool-group have more wipes than a chat channel spam created group? In both cases you still have a pug, and you still have to communicate. This guy makes my point for me. He's one of the people who just can't conceieve of any other way to get groups than to spam general or make a tool that queues him with other random people he won't ever see again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Oh you've completed it all then, have you..? I don't think you have. I thought that the content at the release of Cata was a move back towards fun. We cleared most of it in our guild pretty quickly, but it wasn't as boring as WoTLK heroics. Not at first. Then the random groups of noobs started getting to level and when they couldn't immediately faceroll through all of the heroic content, the crying was epic. The content got nerfed to hell and back, and became so boring that it wasn't worth doing. When people who want to randomly group, and not put in any effort, get to the hardmode flashpoints, they're going to fail. They're going to fail hard. And the crying will be epic. AGAIN. Yes, the hardmodes are doable without much of a problem, but they're still fun fights. Dumb it all down and it won't be. Might as well just give us a crew skill called "EPIX" and then we can all send out C2-N2 to gather up some Tionese and Columni gear for us. It would take about as much effort and time. And it would probably be more fun. I've done some, not all and from the people who have done them all. I trust what they tell me. The game is already super easy, So I doubt a LFG tool would matter because it is already easy. So your whole point is gone, because you can easily do any hardcore mode in a pug. So why would a LFG tool make it easier if that is the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This guy makes my point for me. He's one of the people who just can't conceieve of any other way to get groups than to spam general or make a tool that queues him with other random people he won't ever see again. That is the only way to get groups when you want to play on your time. The guild and friend thing is getting to play the game on there time. I can't really make it any easier to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrthbt Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 LFG tools ALWAYS turn grouping into a nightmare full of douchebags, ******* and just plain annoying people. This is a documented fact. Gamer journalists have writting articles ad nauseum about it. It happened to wow within a month of implementing it, it happened to Rift within a week, it ALWAYS HAPPENS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethillex Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If people start acting like jerks if they can hide behind the LFG tool, then you're community was built on a falsehood since you've been socializing with a bunch of deceptive people. What's the value of community based on that? Seems like it doesn't matter if it destroys that community. Maybe some people don't wish to be part of your vision of the server community either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordAposno Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This guy makes my point for me. He's one of the people who just can't conceieve of any other way to get groups than to spam general or make a tool that queues him with other random people he won't ever see again. If I like the people in the group I will see them again. With one click they become friends just like that. For people that play late at night, a LFG tool and spamming chat is really the only way to start a group. Guild members are not on 24/7. Friends are not on 24/7. Getting afull group is not easy. There are also many new people to mmo's that are not into guilds and want to play casual. These people will benefit from an LFG tool. Anyone can benefit from an LFG too. In no way am I making your point. Your opinions are without logic and have no concrete reasons against a LFG tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) LFG tools ALWAYS turn grouping into a nightmare full of douchebags, ******* and just plain annoying people. This is a documented fact. Gamer journalists have writting articles ad nauseum about it. It happened to wow within a month of implementing it, it happened to Rift within a week, it ALWAYS HAPPENS. Documented fact my ***. Go find me some documents because they don't exist. All anyone has is opinionated drivel. Online communities have gone down the tubes in general, it has nothing to do with LFD tools. WoW and Rift both had bad communities before LFD was implemented. Edited January 11, 2012 by Shillen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've done some, not all and from the people who have done them all. I trust what they tell me. The game is already super easy, So I doubt a LFG tool would matter because it is already easy. So your whole point is gone, because you can easily do any hardcore mode in a pug. So why would a LFG tool make it easier if that is the case? Dude, you keep going back to that. I'm sure that some guild groups got together and didn't have much trouble at all. Mine didn't. I had fun, though. Just like I had fun in those Cata fights before they nerfed all of those too. But trust me, random groups of uncooperative dungeon finder groups are going to WIPE. And they're going to CRY. I don't want it all nerfed to the point where I can sleep through it all and get my drop at the end. That's not the game I want to play. And while I have a geared out Guardian, and I don't really need much from the hardmodes on him, I still have 7 other toons on that server alone that I'm eventually going to want to level at some point. I'd rather have fun and even just a slight bit of challenge when I do it. You want a lobby game where you drop in, kill the boss, get your loot... and leave. I DON'T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If I like the people in the group I will see them again. With one click they become friends just like that. For people that play late at night, a LFG tool and spamming chat is really the only way to start a group. Guild members are not on 24/7. Friends are not on 24/7. Getting afull group is not easy. There are also many new people to mmo's that are not into guilds and want to play casual. These people will benefit from an LFG tool. Anyone can benefit from an LFG too. In no way am I making your point. Your opinions are without logic and have no concrete reasons against a LFG tool. Yep, I play during the day. I either group with random strangers or I don't group. And I will not sit in town spamming that I'm LFG or LFM. I will not play the game before I do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordAposno Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 LFG tools ALWAYS turn grouping into a nightmare full of douchebags, ******* and just plain annoying people. This is a documented fact. Gamer journalists have writting articles ad nauseum about it. It happened to wow within a month of implementing it, it happened to Rift within a week, it ALWAYS HAPPENS. No, not always. I had very little bad experiences in Rift and WOW with LFG tool. The bad ones were really really bad. But thankfully was not often. This is not a documented fact. This is your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylane Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I personally do not believe in a lfg system, and upon hearing cross-server lfg coming in wow, that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me and I left wow. Before cross-server lfg tool came to wow, I personally had no difficulties finding a group as a tank, dps or healer. This is because there are many ways to form a group, and the moment you make a name for yourself as a good tank/dps/healer, people will ask you to join them and you no longer need to spam chat any longer. Back then in wow, we had: (1) LFG chat that can be used to form groups (2) LFG window which allows you to tag yourself as one who is looking for that particular instance or look for people who are looking at the same instance as you (3) Guilds/RL friends I felt that it was enough, honestly. the only reason I was an alt-holic then was because I wanted the fresh feeling of meeting new people and playing with them, adding these new people to my friends list or to invite to our guild for future content. I never needed to sit in a particular zone to spam chat for a group because the LFG window takes care of that and the area i am questing in are filled with similar-leveled people who will be questing in the same region as me, which eliminates the need for a global lfg. I felt that swtor encourages grouping too as they make all group quests on planets/instances repeatable, giving other players who have completed the quest an incentive to help out too, and even without the quest, they get bonus xp for helping others comeplete it. I am personally not opposed to lfg tool, but please at least do not make it cross-server as it eliminates all acountability and please "allow" people travel to that instance instead of zoning in immediately. Even a "summoning stone" is ok. As long as someone travels to it. It is alot of fun during the "traveling to instance" bit especially if you are in a pvp server. A lot of our guild vs guild clashes with alliance were during the travels and we forgot about the instance altogether. tl:dr: I am ok with LFG, but not with cross-server LFG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Only lfg I agree with is if it is same server just like pvp. No cross realm junk, maybe that keeps the trolling down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordAposno Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Dude, you keep going back to that. I'm sure that some guild groups got together and didn't have much trouble at all. Mine didn't. I had fun, though. Just like I had fun in those Cata fights before they nerfed all of those too. But trust me, random groups of uncooperative dungeon finder groups are going to WIPE. And they're going to CRY. I don't want it all nerfed to the point where I can sleep through it all and get my drop at the end. That's not the game I want to play. And while I have a geared out Guardian, and I don't really need much from the hardmodes on him, I still have 7 other toons on that server alone that I'm eventually going to want to level at some point. I'd rather have fun and even just a slight bit of challenge when I do it. You want a lobby game where you drop in, kill the boss, get your loot... and leave. I DON'T. Most groups are random. You get there by spamming a chat channel or by a tool. The point is either way you get to the group. A LFG tool is not going to lead to the nerfing of content. Your speculating based on inaccurate assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrthbt Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Documented fact my ***. Go find me some documents because they don't exist. All anyone has is opinionated drivel. Online communities have gone down the tubes in general, it has nothing to do with LFD tools. WoW and Rift both had bad communities before LFD was implemented. then youve never browsed the net or played any MMOs that implemented LFG tools. stop talking out your rear end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Dude, you keep going back to that. I'm sure that some guild groups got together and didn't have much trouble at all. Mine didn't. I had fun, though. Just like I had fun in those Cata fights before they nerfed all of those too. But trust me, random groups of uncooperative dungeon finder groups are going to WIPE. And they're going to CRY. I don't want it all nerfed to the point where I can sleep through it all and get my drop at the end. That's not the game I want to play. And while I have a geared out Guardian, and I don't really need much from the hardmodes on him, I still have 7 other toons on that server alone that I'm eventually going to want to level at some point. I'd rather have fun and even just a slight bit of challenge when I do it. You want a lobby game where you drop in, kill the boss, get your loot... and leave. I DON'T. You are saying a tool will caused the content to get nerfed. There is noway for you to know this. So here lets make it easier. If they keep the content the same not nerfing it down, but added a queue system would you care? Your whole point seems to be that you don't want it because they would make content too easy. The lobby game part, I don't really understand because the game is already like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Most groups are random. You get there by spamming a chat channel or by a tool. The point is either way you get to the group. A LFG tool is not going to lead to the nerfing of content. Your speculating based on inaccurate assumptions. You open with your own speculation and then accuse me of it..? Show me how most groups are random. Haven't you been listening..? Those people spamming in general are having trouble getting groups. That's why they're here crying on the forums. They just can't seem to understand that there are other ways to form groups, and that it's actually pretty easy if you put even just a little effort into it. copy/pasting /1 LFG DIRECTIVE 7 *yawn* over and over is NOT effort. It's laziness, and it doesn't surprise me that no one really wants to group with those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) You are saying a tool will caused the content to get nerfed. There is noway for you to know this. So here lets make it easier. If they keep the content the same not nerfing it down, but added a queue system would you care? Your whole point seems to be that you don't want it because they would make content too easy. The lobby game part, I don't really understand because the game is already like that. No it's not. It's what you want it to be, and that's why you're here advocating for it. I've always been on the fence for a same server tool. I've gone into my reasons here as to why I oppose it. I'm not even going to TOUCH a cross-server tool, because my objections to that are too many to mention. Mark my words, when you throw a random group of people into this stuff, they're going to cry, just like they did with the early Cata heroics, and the content will get hit hard with the nerf bat to satisfy those people who just can't manage to learn their class or cooperate with other people. The "FREE PURPLES NAOW!" crowd have ruined the genre. Edited January 11, 2012 by Taroen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You open with your own speculation and then accuse me of it..? Show me how most groups are random. Haven't you been listening..? Those people spamming in general are having trouble getting groups. That's why they're here crying on the forums. They just can't seem to understand that there are other ways to form groups, and that it's actually pretty easy if you put even just a little effort into it. copy/pasting /1 LFG DIRECTIVE 7 *yawn* over and over is NOT effort. It's laziness, and it doesn't surprise me that no one really wants to group with those people. Spamming people in tells is just as lazy. In fact it bothers me when people do it. So the other way is to join a guild, but you know if I join a guild just for groups I guess I should just leave the guild when I get any huh? That seems like a jerk thing to do. Like I said, there has been no points at all that come even close to why a LFG tool should not be added, its all about Content being nerfed. I don't like it. It ruins the community. All of the things is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) No it's not. It's what you want it to be, and that's why you're here advocating for it. I've always been on the fence for a same server tool. I've gone into my reasons here as to why I oppose it. I'm not even going to TOUCH a cross-server tool, because my objections to that are too many to mention. Mark my words, when you throw a random group of people into this stuff, they're going to cry, just like they did with the early Cata heroics, and the content will get hit hard with the nerf bat to satisfy those people who just can't manage to learn their class or cooperate with other people. The "FREE PURPLES NAOW!" crowd have ruined the genre. So what if they cry? It's not that big of a deal, at least they get to do the content easier. Also, the free purple now comment is kinda silly, nothing wrong with people wanting to play and enjoy the game. Nothing wrong with people wanting to get gear. They still do the dungeon they still put forth the same effort as you do. The only thing changed is that they did it with a handicap of doing it with pugs. They pretty much did the content harder than people who do guild runs. To me they deserve the loot more for having a handicap where a guild run can use team speak and vent to make it even easier. So if we want to talk about who deserves it more... Edited January 11, 2012 by Teladis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargantas Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I must have missed that. You don't need a tool. You just want one because you want to be anti-social in a social game. You have that WoW instant-gratification complex where you think everything should be handed to you without any effort. I need to not be required to spam chat for an hour with a 50/50 chance it works. I bought the game to play the content, not sit and wait around. People are not going to pay for a game their doing more sitting than playing in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Spamming people in tells is just as lazy. In fact it bothers me when people do it. So the other way is to join a guild, but you know if I join a guild just for groups I guess I should just leave the guild when I get any huh? That seems like a jerk thing to do. Like I said, there has been no points at all that come even close to why a LFG tool should not be added, its all about Content being nerfed. I don't like it. It ruins the community. All of the things is false. Or maybe you actually start talking to people and make friends with them...? Just a thought... You have to get it out of your head that spamming people is the only way to get groups. You spam the general, or you spam in whispers... If that's the way you operate then I can imagine why it took you so long to get a group going... But you've already admitted that you only see other people as a means to an end... Not good... Not good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I need to not be required to spam chat for an hour with a 50/50 chance it works. I bought the game to play the content, not sit and wait around. People are not going to pay for a game their doing more sitting than playing in Yet another person who thinks that spamming general is a good way to get groups... Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Or maybe you actually start talking to people and make friends with them...? Just a thought... You have to get it out of your head that spamming people is the only way to get groups. You spam the general, or you spam in whispers... If that's the way you operate then I can imagine why it took you so long to get a group going... But you've already admitted that you only see other people as a means to an end... Not good... Not good at all. So I'm pretty much force to make friends to play content in a game? Sorry, but I'm not the type of ******e who makes friends just for loot in a game. If I like the person we can be friends. If I join a guild, I will use them to better my char, If I make friends with them cool, but for a game to force me to make friends to keep playing the content, Not only do I find it wrong, but I kinda find it offensive. Even in the past mmos you did not have to make friends to do content. You could do pugs, and it was just tough to make groups. Thats the past, and this is now. This mmo will not live in todays market if you cater to the community building players and that is it. That is a fact, based off the past mmos that hit the market. It failed in them, and i'm pretty sure it will fail in this one. Edited January 11, 2012 by Teladis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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