Why did Bioware choose the hero engine?

[ArmchairMagpie]

no they didn't, they deliberately cut corners to save time

 

Who's "they"? If you're talking Blizzard then it doesn't make sense, if you are talking Bioware then it does but it does when seeing it within context of the time.

[Vortx]

Lol @ wikipedia vandals

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroEngine

 

"Games developed with HeroEngine

 

* Faxion Online

* Star Wars: TORtanic from BioWare[10]"

[TheHauntingBard]

I see some people claiming they know a lot about this engine (aside from the common information given) and how it works out for mmo's.

Usually it is not with a lot of backup but still I would like you to ask you for your time.

 

Keep in mind I got a high end rig with a good SSD and everything and I'm having a nvidia card.

Also keep in mind the amount of money spend on this game .

 

 

Why are the loading times so incredibly long compared to other mmo's?

 

Why is there a 5-8 second delay on alt tab?

 

Why is there no DX 10 or DX 11 support?

 

Why is the space station dropping my FPS to 25-30 ?

 

Why are there no high res textures?

 

Why do people disconnect when they pvp on a pvp planet when the number is +20?

 

Why do I experience an ability delay?

 

Why is there a lack of graphical settings?

 

 

Let's say the hero engine can do all this, so why isn't in in the game.

They pumped so much money into this game but it runs like trash.

It looks mediocre as well.

I don't buy 'give it time or that other game didn't had it' it's not 2012 they bragged and hyped this game and they delivered this.

 

Better has been done with less, so the question would be.

Is this because of the hero engine not being good for what Bioware tried to do with the game?

 

 

My eduction in programming is basic and what I read about the engine is not going to give me answers.

So well if this engine is fine, why do I experience these issues?

 

 

 

To top it off the European servers are placed in Ireland, the cheapest but also one of the worst countries to put them in.

The server lag is horrible but well this isn't engine related.

Edited January 16, 2012 by TheHauntingBard

[Dunzo]

This is how cheap and lame HeroEngine is... straight out of their website:

 

"LICENSING FEE:

 

Free, including access for up to 99 developers. Once (or if) your game is published and begins making money, we keep 30% of revenue." -HeroEngine.com

 

That's their official licensing fee. It sounds like something developed purely for small-time developers on a small budget, and yet EA/Bioware jumped on this? Don't they know that you pay for what you get.. and it shows!

[HeroXx]

This is how cheap and lame HeroEngine is... straight out of their website:

 

"LICENSING FEE:

 

Free, including access for up to 99 developers. Once (or if) your game is published and begins making money, we keep 30% of revenue." -HeroEngine.com

 

That's their official licensing fee. It sounds like something developed purely for small-time developers on a small budget, and yet EA/Bioware jumped on this? Don't they know that you pay for what you get.. and it shows!

 

Suppose you are the kind that say Windows is better than Linux because you have to pay for Windows?

 

Don't get me wrong I think they took a shortcut but your statement is invalid.

[IPaq]

lol I dont make 30k a year skippy.

I'm a doctor I make over 200k a year but nice try. YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaww!

 

Rofl usual lie... I could have predicted that.

 

Do not forget the super model wife and his/her bentley while at it.

[Dunzo]

Suppose you are the kind that say Windows is better than Linux because you have to pay for Windows?

 

Don't get me wrong I think they took a shortcut but your statement is invalid.

 

You're comparing a free, open source platform to one developed for a competitive market. It's actually not a valid comparison. And if HeroEngine is the Linux of engines then Linux sucks.

[xgothshadowx]

This is how cheap and lame HeroEngine is... straight out of their website:

 

"LICENSING FEE:

 

Free, including access for up to 99 developers. Once (or if) your game is published and begins making money, we keep 30% of revenue." -HeroEngine.com

 

That's their official licensing fee. It sounds like something developed purely for small-time developers on a small budget, and yet EA/Bioware jumped on this? Don't they know that you pay for what you get.. and it shows!

 

That's a quote for their HEROCloud/HEROBlade service, not their full HEROEngine Licensing. Try reading a bit more before quoting misinformation.

[Dunzo]

That's a quote for their HEROCloud/HEROBlade service, not their full HEROEngine Licensing. Try reading a bit more before quoting misinformation.

 

That's fine but the point stands that it is a cheap license, and you know it is.

[daeseer]

Here's the real reason they used Hero:

 

The development tools rock.

 

In most other game engines, including WoW's, developers work pretty much in isolation from each other. When they make changes to a zone, those changes aren't propagated through until there's a nightly build of the entire game. So if a developer changes something, it can have ramifications throughout the zone that other developers have to deal with.

 

Hero engine has a collaborative, realtime, web-based zone development environment. They can have multiple people working on a zone at a time, and they all see the changes as they're made.

 

I think the zones are generally extremely well done. If those development tools were a help to get them to this state, then I'm all for it.

 

Admittedly, Unreal-based games run very smoothly. But I don't think it's an engine that's great for developing an MMO, from what I've read.

[Gaidax]

Who said that the engine is bad? I mean you can take C++ which absolutely rocks efficiency-wise and make some absolutely atrocious unoptimized stuff on it that will tank, doesn't mean that the core tools suck.

[Mandrax]

That's fine but the point stands that it is a cheap license, and you know it is.

 

Please link the source which supports your claim that the license was cheap.

[xgothshadowx]

That's a quote for their HEROCloud/HEROBlade service, not their full HEROEngine Licensing. Try reading a bit more before quoting misinformation.

 

That's fine but the point stands that it is a cheap license, and you know it is.

 

Let's see, when BW Licensed the HEROEngine, the License cost 1.5 million, now it costs 150K. The full license gives you access to the source and the ability to add, change, and remove code as needed, with no fees to Idea Fabrik. So while the original engine may not have been up to snuff, what BW has done to the source makes it no longer the base product they licensed.

 

So, was it a cheap license, no, even now it isn't. Is it a perfect engine from Idea Fabrik, no, but full licenses allow game studios to correct issues inherit with the base engine. Considering BW has a full license, give them time to correct issues, modifying source code is not easy, especially when they've been incorporating HE updates into their already existing modified source code.

 

Is SWTOR perfect, no, but get the facts before spouting useless misinformation and propaganda.

[ThanosTitan]

All things they should have done before they started asking for money this half baked monstrosity.

[hulduet]

I don't get it either why make a game heavily instanced. It's clearly limitations based on the engine they picked. Look at WAR, same problem. Which is weird because daoc was very open world, even more so than WoW. Lotro probably used a heavily modified AC2 engine which is why they could keep the big open worlds and keep instancing to a minimal, and they did a good job actually.

[Darhany]

Why did they choose a engine that is so heavily instanced instead of building their own like Blizzard did?

 

Im just wondering because I keep hearing about all the money they spent and the heart of this game the main engine seems very cheap.

 

Any reason for this?

 

 

 

For the same reason they chose the guys from Warhammer to design the PvP/Classes.

 

Because they have no idea about MMOs.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Darhany

[Light_Valkyrie]

Except that both Bioware and EA are run by people who know gaming whereas ActiBlizzard is not. What was your point again?

 

True fanboism.

 

Also I can't recall a "good" EA game since... ok well Madden and other crap sport games don't count.

 

And bioware... well. DA1 was pretty awesome, otherwise... Uhh yea ok.

[rhirne]

Here's the real reason they used Hero:

 

The development tools rock.

 

In most other game engines, including WoW's, developers work pretty much in isolation from each other. When they make changes to a zone, those changes aren't propagated through until there's a nightly build of the entire game. So if a developer changes something, it can have ramifications throughout the zone that other developers have to deal with.

 

Hero engine has a collaborative, realtime, web-based zone development environment. They can have multiple people working on a zone at a time, and they all see the changes as they're made.

 

......

 

 

This is for sure one reason why they went with it. Having updates in real-time can make a lot of difference. For example, I'm the dev. responsible for the taxi paths. Someone makes a change to the landscape, I can immediately see that my taxi is going to go throughthe middle of a mountain. A quick change to the path and problem solved - in real-time.

 

Again, it alows for content to be created and pushed out at a much faster rate.

 

 

 

Who said that the engine is bad? I mean you can take C++ which absolutely rocks efficiency-wise and make some absolutely atrocious unoptimized stuff on it that will tank, doesn't mean that the core tools suck.

 

Ohh - you mean like how Borland nearly crushed every C++ programer cause of 1 line stupid of code they got everybody to use:

 

void main(void)

 

 

I still see people trying to use that today. I cringe at the thought everytime. How can you write a program, and not return an exit code to the OS / applicaiton that started it. That's just horrible programming. It's not that C++ is bad (it's used for Windows, Linux, and Mac OS's), it's just that programming like that is - well bad. Excellent base tool, poor programming.

 

 

 

And people forget, the engine has been HEAVILY modified by BW. It's not the same that you even see on the HeroEngine website.

[mutharex]

True fanboism.

 

Also I can't recall a "good" EA game since... ok well Madden and other crap sport games don't count.

 

And bioware... well. DA1 was pretty awesome, otherwise... Uhh yea ok.

 

You don't seem to know much about EA or BW for that matters, you know?

 

Baldur Gate Trilogy

Kotor 1 and 2

Torment

Mass Effect

DA

 

just to quote some classic blockbusters that redefined the genre

[Jounar]

All things they should have done before they started asking for money this half baked monstrosity.

 

+1

 

While no MMO will ever launch bug free due to how complex the MMO's are and due to the various types of hardware a PC can have, I have never seen an MMO launch where the high graphics option was missing due to the game engine being utter rubbish.

 

Even the worst of the MMO's launched over the last 10 years such as Age of Conan, Warhammer, Star Trek online and Champions online were are to be run with max settings turned on as seen in all the games promo videos.

 

Yet the latest entry to the market, the most expensive to make, the most hyped and from one of the biggest developers in the business can't be run on max settings the way the games has and continues to be advertised due to the game engine not being up to the job!

 

WFT Bioware!

[Orkayl]

You don't seem to know much about EA or BW for that matters, you know?

 

Baldur Gate Trilogy

Kotor 1 and 2

Torment

Mass Effect

DA

 

just to quote some classic blockbusters that redefined the genre

 

I didn't know 'pause during combat so you can't fail at gaming' was a genre?

[Red_Cruiser]

Did you guys play Warhammer Online? If you had, you wouldn't be asking about why they had to buy an engine. Did you know BioWare Austin is more Mythic than it is BioWare? They just put a few BioWare talking heads on the SWTOR project to sell the game and handle the voice acting -make it authentic feeling. The Hero Engine isn't great, but for being the first major MMO release to use it, it's not doing terrible. It's light years better than what Warhammer Online was using, though it has a long ways to go to be as smooth and as flexible as what WoW is using.

[Barracudastr]

You don't seem to know much about EA or BW for that matters, you know?

 

Baldur Gate Trilogy

Kotor 1 and 2

Torment

Mass Effect

DA

 

just to quote some classic blockbusters that redefined the genre

 

They know single player gaming.

 

They suck in the mmo department. Their first mmo is a knock off of others out there right now with bare bones mmo features and a crap engine that is causing 80% of the problems the game has lol.

[Deltacrux]

They suck in the mmo department. Their first mmo is a knock off of others out there right now with bare bones mmo features and a crap engine that is causing 80% of the problems the game has lol.

 

Pretty much this. The track record now with WAR and SW:TOR is pretty horrible. I sure as hell won't buy another MMO from EA/BioWare/Lucas.

[Spartanik]

True fanboism.

 

Also I can't recall a "good" EA game since... ok well Madden and other crap sport games don't count.

 

And bioware... well. DA1 was pretty awesome, otherwise... Uhh yea ok.

 

Wrong DA1 was good. KOTOR, Mass effetc 1/2, baldurs Gate 2 was awesome