Carnage - Lets talk possible buff ideas

[ShwagATK]

Okay guys without getting into bugs n such, lets talk some ideas while trying to keep it balanced and progressing the character.

 

Lets start it off with key skills first then deeper into the carnage tree -

 

Ravage - I used to be someone that said "wish i could run and channel" well im willing to give up that all together with a few ideas. i like ravage, i think its cool and gives some taste to the class but here:

- I feel this skill could use a damage buff or a channel speed increase buff. or both. for a 3 second channel, it feels incredibly lack luster. let alone how dependable it is. next.

 

Overwhelm(long post) - ah, the reason i wanted to hit 30+ so bad. heres my thing with overwhelm. i feel that it needs to, quite literally, overwhelm our target. allow this talent to stun the target for the duration of the skill. why? ill explain: Ravage should be our "OMG HES RAVAGING" skill. it should be the thing ( for a 30 second cool down ) that people are blowing their trinkets and knock backs on. if it were to stun ( and lets say do a large threatening amount of dmg ), people would THEN have to blow a trinket and either run or push back or something. as of now, even with the current overwhelm, everyone is just stunning us out of it, pushing us back, or (bug) running away from it. gettin 2 hits is ridic, let alone the powerful 3rd slash is rare to see.

 

Right now, overwhelm is useless as a pve skill and just ...weak as a pvp skill with all the current cc.

Giving us this ability to stun would not only increase our pve prowess but force our opponents to use their slew of skills wisely. or even at all tbh. move it down a tier or read below.

 

if i wanted my cake and to eat it too, i'd rework ravage all together to make the stun effect the skills passive. but just my 2 cents. next

 

Gore/Execute/Blood Frenzy - love the skill(s), but it (along with execute and blood frenzy ) needs like 2-3 seconds longer in the buff duration. i see gore/execute/blood frenzy buffs fall off almost every time right before i get my scream off. the duration is too strict. to increase it by a few seconds would make our "combo" feel seem more consistent and there by making our burst more of a combo sustained dmg. and thats always cool. next.

 

Massacre and Ataru Form - Massacre i love. i love that its a gcd, and cool looking. the problem with this is not the skill itself ( in my opinion of course ), its ataru form hits. oh and rework the buff of massacre to something else ( increase ataru form procs..bleh ). If im using massacre, its for 1 of 2 reasons - to proc blood frenzy for a force scream or to rage burn spam the hell out of it. either way, the buff it has it kinda useless.

 

ataru form hits are just weak sauce and undependable in itself. over all i think the dmg on ataru form just needs to be flat out buffed. lets say, for example, a 1400 massacre crit with a 1k (numbers are just for example) ataru crit...THEN were puttin out some DPS. but i dont believe ive seen ataru hit harder than 500 currently. again, to me, its just kinda meh.

 

Force Camo - the skill thats keeping us alive. barely. i love it, increase the duration by 2 seconds and we've got ourselves an amazing skill. next.

 

Saber Throw(s) - increase range by 5 to 10 meters. as of now i feel i have to be in melee range just to use the skill which makes it pointless short of the execute or the deadly saber snare. other than that, its cool. next.

 

Force Scream - again, increase range ever-so-slightly. another skill i feel i have to be just a little to close to use. dmg could use a very slight buff ( ). lower the cool down on it by a few seconds would put a cherry on top. or allow a carnage talent to 'refresh' the cool down. other than that, awesome to have something critting 2500-3k every once in a while.

 

- Enable use of Pommel Strike / Savage Kick -

- Give marauders either a talent or skill that can passively create a duration for reduced (effectiveness OR all together) cc. if the lore says we are unmatched in aggression, don't you think that should mean a bomb or missle or lightning thing shouldn't ALWAYS stop us? EX: Aggression - 50% chance to completely negate ( or cut duration by x time ) any form of movement impairing or character control loss. You put the rage/duration/whatever here.

 

I think that does it for our current abilities, i'll probably think of more ideas that sound somewhat balanced. One more thing....

 

Our Juggy brothers have these two awesome things that make me jelly. Force push and enrage.

 

Now all im asking for is an out of combat rage gain ability on a 1min cd. even like blood rage - gains 2 rage every 1 second for 6 seconds something along those lines.

 

ANNNNND my final thought:

New Skill. An aggressive utility skill.

Force Slam - 4 Rage. 45 Second CD. 4 Yard Range. Instant Cast ( not channel ... )

Lifts your opponent into the air, slamming them face first into the ground causing Stun for (x) seconds for (x) amount of dmg.

 

Not asking for crazy dmg, even 700 or so non crit dmg. Im asking for utility, another 'no-so-long' stun. Just a way to use it as an opener or even cleverly locking opponents down.

 

Please keep ideas constructive and keep the "l2ps" "we're fine" down to a minimum. these are just ideas to make this class more viable than just an AOE rage spec class. Juggys do that better, and thats awesome. Would really like to hear more ideas.

Edited January 10, 2012 by ShwagATK

[TonySith]

^^^^^^^

[UrgentFury]

Good post make it happen Bioware

[harrisonxxi]

If i had a stun with my annhilate spec, I would be the new scoundrel everyone is complaining about. I can already kill someone in 3-5 seconds with annhilate.

[Kibaken]

If i had a stun with my annhilate spec, I would be the new scoundrel everyone is complaining about. I can already kill someone in 3-5 seconds with annhilate.

 

I'd love to see a video of that against a full Battlemaster geared Juggernaut.

 

/sarcasm.

 

 

Some people want to be able to move while using Ravage, others want it reworked. It's definitely a tough skill to try to deal with. Unfortunately it's late (early) and I'm a bit too tired to try to think of a really unique way to make it work really well for Carnage while keeping its usefulness for Rage.

 

Blood Frenzy lasting any longer is a detriment to Rage generation, but I think Gore should be a "next x abilities" or something along those lines instead of a duration. Even if x = 4 we would get Scream and all 3 Ravage hits (assuming people are right in saying the last hit doesn't get the bonus if the buff wears off).

 

Because of the damage increases to Ataru procs - specifically Ataru Mastery and Sever - the proc damage can add up really fast. I can't wait for there to be a way to accurately (and not painstakingly) count all the procs you get during an encounter to see how much damage it contributes overall.

 

Camo could definitely use a duration increase by a second or two. Both Vicious Slash and Deadly Throw need their ranges increased. As for Scream, MAYBE 15 meters. Maybe. I'd settle for like 12. The cool-down, though, I think is fairly balanced.

 

Pommel Strike and Savage Kick have their place and, while I was teased early on, too, waiting to use these in PvP, I feel they would give us a bit too much. I'd easily settle for a single target stun (think Kidney Shot or Concussive Blow) and I really like the idea of Slam. Picking someone up and knocking them down, making them unable to do anything for 4-5 seconds.

 

It won't happen - but I'd *********** love Force Push to be an innate Warrior ability. Just 'cause.

 

We definitely need a stun - our healer lock-down ability is extremely lacking.

 

My unique idea: Disruption prevents all "school" related casts from being used for 4 seconds. What this would mean is that - in the case of a Consular - they can't start casting Benevolence, get interrupted and start up Healing Trance. They could, however, use Disturbance instead.

[Draexnael]

My unique idea: Disruption prevents all "school" related casts from being used for 4 seconds. What this would mean is that - in the case of a Consular - they can't start casting Benevolence, get interrupted and start up Healing Trance. They could, however, use Disturbance instead.

 

Well geared healers are simply too strong in PVP currently - I ran v's 3 (1*Consular +2*Trooper) and with 4 of us beating down on them they simply wouldn't die.

[Kibaken]

Well geared healers are simply too strong in PVP currently - I ran v's 3 (1*Consular +2*Trooper) and with 4 of us beating down on them they simply wouldn't die.

 

That's the main reason I was thinking about this change. They have long range stuns, knockbacks with roots, AoE stuns, single-target CCs and heals.

 

We have Choke, Disruption and Intimidating Shout. They just have too much.

[Shadinaxx]

I woouldnt mind a talented change to int shout being able to dmg the stunned. Too many times I've broken my own cc purelly because I had cloak of pain up while I hit intimidating shout, while I had a dot on me an it ticked dmg back to the target, breaking the cc... I wanted to kill a puppy for that, lol

[Ridisi]

People that think this spec needs a buff truly don't know how to play it. This is our strongest in group spec, and one of our best specs for dealing with ANY class in the game.

[nuwn]

People that think this spec needs a buff truly don't know how to play it. This is our strongest in group spec, and one of our best specs for dealing with ANY class in the game.

 

if i had all these buffs i could probably 1v2 anyone by racerolling

[ZakPreston]

Give us Force Pull

[Saberunna]

I agree witha couple of your suggestions although others seem a little over the top.

 

Your idea for aggression would create OPness in PvP like we have never seen b4 considering how important CC is in this games PvP.

 

Ataru form does need a slight damage buff or at least the proc that massacre causes could be slightly stronger, this end tier talent that massacre is feels very weak.

 

Saber throws are very PvP oriented hence why our 4 piece set bonus increases their range by 5 m.

 

Force scream damage could be scaled up ever so slightly as for range I believe it is fine where it is at.

 

Several things could be done with our ravage talent: they could just purely up it's damage, just lower channel time or cause 100% stun for duration. Any combo though could cause OP carnage marauders.

 

When I have to get away force camo is purely map dependent on a map like Huttball I can get away with ease but on Alderran I have troubles. In my opinion force camo is great where it is at.

 

Gore cannot have a longer duration because keep in mind it is 100% armor pen! The ability itself could do a little more damage.

 

Our 100% crit force scream: I am not too sure what you are talking about when you watch it fall off because I can hit it with ease assuming I did not just force scream and put it on cd.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Saberunna

[EasymodeX]

Too many poorly thought out changes.

 

I would recommend something significantly smaller, like taking Gore off the GCD and perhaps adding it to the ability refunded via Enraged Slash. Also, extending the buff duration by 0.5s to ensure it covers the last GCD through lag and general shenanigans.

 

That would increase Carnage's raw DPS (Gore is a DPS sink) as well as make Gore's buff more usable.

 

 

Carnage doesn't need much unless / until they nerffix Massacre.

[Adill]

I'd like to see massacre's dmg increased to match vicious slash and force camo duration increased by 1 second so i can sneak by a group of mobs easier. Also some sort of force push/pull would be nice to have, but i think i'd rather have force choke changed to be non-channeled...i dont even use it on bosses because it seems to decrease our dps (and they're immune to the stun).

[EasymodeX]

There is zero reason to increase Massacre's damage because of Vicious Slash's tooltip.

[andysdead]

I'd be happy if they just up the damage of Force Scream so it does at least 5k at level 50.

[AcaciaDragon]

Okay guys without getting into bugs n such, lets talk some ideas while trying to keep it balanced and progressing the character.

 

Lets start it off with key skills first then deeper into the carnage tree -

 

Ravage - I used to be someone that said "wish i could run and channel" well im willing to give up that all together with a few ideas. i like ravage, i think its cool and gives some taste to the class but here:

- I feel this skill could use a damage buff or a channel speed increase buff. or both. for a 3 second channel, it feels incredibly lack luster. let alone how dependable it is. next.

 

Overwhelm(long post) - ah, the reason i wanted to hit 30+ so bad. heres my thing with overwhelm. i feel that it needs to, quite literally, overwhelm our target. allow this talent to stun the target for the duration of the skill. why? ill explain: Ravage should be our "OMG HES RAVAGING" skill. it should be the thing ( for a 30 second cool down ) that people are blowing their trinkets and knock backs on. if it were to stun ( and lets say do a large threatening amount of dmg ), people would THEN have to blow a trinket and either run or push back or something. as of now, even with the current overwhelm, everyone is just stunning us out of it, pushing us back, or (bug) running away from it. gettin 2 hits is ridic, let alone the powerful 3rd slash is rare to see.

 

Right now, overwhelm is useless as a pve skill and just ...weak as a pvp skill with all the current cc.

Giving us this ability to stun would not only increase our pve prowess but force our opponents to use their slew of skills wisely. or even at all tbh. move it down a tier or read below.

 

if i wanted my cake and to eat it too, i'd rework ravage all together to make the stun effect the skills passive. but just my 2 cents. next

 

Gore/Execute/Blood Frenzy - love the skill(s), but it (along with execute and blood frenzy ) needs like 2-3 seconds longer in the buff duration. i see gore/execute/blood frenzy buffs fall off almost every time right before i get my scream off. the duration is too strict. to increase it by a few seconds would make our "combo" feel seem more consistent and there by making our burst more of a combo sustained dmg. and thats always cool. next.

 

Massacre and Ataru Form - Massacre i love. i love that its a gcd, and cool looking. the problem with this is not the skill itself ( in my opinion of course ), its ataru form hits. oh and rework the buff of massacre to something else ( increase ataru form procs..bleh ). If im using massacre, its for 1 of 2 reasons - to proc blood frenzy for a force scream or to rage burn spam the hell out of it. either way, the buff it has it kinda useless.

 

ataru form hits are just weak sauce and undependable in itself. over all i think the dmg on ataru form just needs to be flat out buffed. lets say, for example, a 1400 massacre crit with a 1k (numbers are just for example) ataru crit...THEN were puttin out some DPS. but i dont believe ive seen ataru hit harder than 500 currently. again, to me, its just kinda meh.

 

Force Camo - the skill thats keeping us alive. barely. i love it, increase the duration by 2 seconds and we've got ourselves an amazing skill. next.

 

Saber Throw(s) - increase range by 5 to 10 meters. as of now i feel i have to be in melee range just to use the skill which makes it pointless short of the execute or the deadly saber snare. other than that, its cool. next.

 

Force Scream - again, increase range ever-so-slightly. another skill i feel i have to be just a little to close to use. dmg could use a very slight buff ( ). lower the cool down on it by a few seconds would put a cherry on top. or allow a carnage talent to 'refresh' the cool down. other than that, awesome to have something critting 2500-3k every once in a while.

 

- Enable use of Pommel Strike / Savage Kick -

- Give marauders either a talent or skill that can passively create a duration for reduced (effectiveness OR all together) cc. if the lore says we are unmatched in aggression, don't you think that should mean a bomb or missle or lightning thing shouldn't ALWAYS stop us? EX: Aggression - 50% chance to completely negate ( or cut duration by x time ) any form of movement impairing or character control loss. You put the rage/duration/whatever here.

 

I think that does it for our current abilities, i'll probably think of more ideas that sound somewhat balanced. One more thing....

 

Our Juggy brothers have these two awesome things that make me jelly. Force push and enrage.

 

Now all im asking for is an out of combat rage gain ability on a 1min cd. even like blood rage - gains 2 rage every 1 second for 6 seconds something along those lines.

 

ANNNNND my final thought:

New Skill. An aggressive utility skill.

Force Slam - 4 Rage. 45 Second CD. 4 Yard Range. Instant Cast ( not channel ... )

Lifts your opponent into the air, slamming them face first into the ground causing Stun for (x) seconds for (x) amount of dmg.

 

Not asking for crazy dmg, even 700 or so non crit dmg. Im asking for utility, another 'no-so-long' stun. Just a way to use it as an opener or even cleverly locking opponents down.

 

Please keep ideas constructive and keep the "l2ps" "we're fine" down to a minimum. these are just ideas to make this class more viable than just an AOE rage spec class. Juggys do that better, and thats awesome. Would really like to hear more ideas.

 

I agree with most everything you said I think ataru procs are a bit under powered but im really curious to see how much damage they do for us over the course of a minute.

 

As for giving us a stun, not sure thats a good idea as we already have 2 interrupts(3 if you count roar), i think if anything, Carnage Mauraders need a talent that makes choke a non channeled ability. replace it with that damn Erupting fury talent.

 

If Force choke and roar is off CD you can effectively lock a healer out of healing maybe 5 times,

 

Interupt

Force Choke

Interupt

Roar

Interrupt

 

Given enough time anyway, And interrupt is not effected by the GCD right? I wanna say ive used it while my Massacre was finishing its GCD....

Edited January 10, 2012 by AcaciaDragon

[miliways]

 

My unique idea: Disruption prevents all "school" related casts from being used for 4 seconds. What this would mean is that - in the case of a Consular - they can't start casting Benevolence, get interrupted and start up Healing Trance. They could, however, use Disturbance instead.

 

QFT, this would be amazing. The cooldown on disruption is long enough if I'm timing it just right, people can still manage to outheal my damage, just by healing while my disruption is on CD. They should be prevented from using any heal for awhile, but not prevented from using force lightning or anything like that. Would be perfect.

[darkonnis]

I think it would be nice if:

ataru form procs stunned, at %%% chance for 0.1 seconds, stun proc cannot happen more than every (time here)seconds. Not enough to actually lock someone down, but to actually give us something to play with when you've popped your one interrupt.

 

Gore, definitely needs to be the next 4 abilities (assault should count as this) plenty of times i've gotten 3 in then because of lag, and more importantly knockbacks, i've missed the end or last half of this skill. Not fair, we're melee and soak up damage as it is, why make us suffer DPS drops too? Range have half the problems and deal comparable DPS.

 

Ravage, Love it, damage buff? no. To me, it hits hard as it is, what would be nice is if the talents in the carnage tree or maybe in the rage tree first made your target fixed to the floor (as it does now) and then for a second point fixed you to the floor immune to any and all CC for the duration. We are essentially the gladiator class if ever there was one, this ability to should reflect this.

 

Saber throws, longer range yes, but at the cost of damage. Closer the target the more damage, otherwise it would be insane.

 

Im all for a buff guys but not for making it OP. Marauder is in an intersting place at the minute, the trick is to diversify it and not make it OP or like other classes.

 

For a new skill you could have:

 

Shockwave:

On proc ability, cost 5 rage.

When stunned, mezzed or otherwise incapacitated, allows for the release of a huge discharge of force energy at the caster, dealing damage and stunning for your served stun duration. (damage capped at, (amount here)

(acute cone, auto directional, essentially line damage)

(had 2 ideas for damage, either the further away they are the more damage they take, stopping them from stunning you and running off to heal. Or deal a %% of the damage you take while CC'd)

So if you popped this as you get stunned, it would do nothing but with timing, your opponent would eat whatever has been thrown at you or be forced to stay close to you. It would also mean that the relentless CC in this game would come with a price... from the one class that doesnt get any at all.

Edited January 10, 2012 by darkonnis

[Hizoka]

Give us Force Pull

 

they took that away about 6 months ago in beta because it was very very OP for the highest single target DPS to be unkitable.

 

we already have 4 interrupts that work on players giving us a 5th is way too much.

[IcyFisty]

I am carnage spec'd and my massacre does more damage than vicious slash. In fact, I don't use vicious slash anymore.

 

Charge -> Battering Assault -> Massacre -> Gore -> Force Scream -> Ravage rinse, repeat.

 

If you are spec'd the way I am, I get 30% crit damage bonus to Force Scream, and a 100% crit chance for force scream while blood frenzy is active plus a chance for a 10% damage bonus even after using gore with execute. Since using gore gives you anywhere from 20-30% damage increase once you take people's armor out of the equation I can crit with force scream for about 1.7-2.5k damage at level 44. Add on Ravage which throws another 3k damage on top and in the opening salvoes of any fight (provided everything works perfectly ofc) I've just done like 6k+ damage (including charge, battering assault, massacre and gore)

 

After that salvo, use force choke and obfuscate to gain some time between the longer cooldowns and bam, you can pretty much repeat all of that.

 

I died a few times on fights I should have easily won while I learned the ropes (like the jugg and master aspirants in darth vengean's lair) but since then I haven't had a single problem wiping the floor with everyone.

 

However, I agree, I think ataru strikes need a buff, they are rather lackluster even when they crit with a 30% damage bonus. And although this means less to me than a fully functional class, I would appreciate it if our "acrobatic" lightsaber form was actually acrobatic.