Ashnazg Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I regret going all the way to 50 now, the damage and survivability once you get to 50 / full champ are complete ****. http://imageshack.us/f/189/screenshot2012010900392.jpg/ That was mostly vs 50ies too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirokai Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well, you've struck my curiosity and as such I now have a few questions for you: 1. Were you running w/ a premade?2. What build are you running3. How's your gear?4. What stats are you using to fill your mod/enhancement slots on your gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podrik Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 /Shoo +1 for you but you aint telling the truth.. If you have problems its you, not the class itself. Ive seen numerous sorcs tear up the place at 50 without problems and without complaints. I suggest you rethink your spec, and go practise a bit. Sorc class is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashnazg Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well, you've struck my curiosity and as such I now have a few questions for you: 1. Were you running w/ a premade? 2. What build are you running 3. How's your gear? 4. What stats are you using to fill your mod/enhancement slots on your gear 1. Yep. 2. Hybrid with madness up to wrath / insta WW and the rest in lightning 3. Full champ + matrix cube. I am also biochem with power adrenals 4. Surge / crit stacking, like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirokai Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 1. Yep. 2. Hybrid with madness up to wrath / insta WW and the rest in lightning 3. Full champ + matrix cube. I am also biochem with power adrenals 4. Surge / crit stacking, like everyone else. 2. Seriously? *Everything* I see seems to point to madness as being the vastly superior spec. 4. Wasn't sure if surge/crit stacking was what sorcs were supposed to do or throw in a decent amount of power as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVenom Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) 2. Seriously? *Everything* I see seems to point to madness as being the vastly superior spec. 4. Wasn't sure if surge/crit stacking was what sorcs were supposed to do or throw in a decent amount of power as well. You DO NOT use power as a sorc, but force power. And yes he is right. The way lighting works and some madness you are better off getting crit and surge. Edited January 9, 2012 by SithVenom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirokai Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 lolwut? Power does increase force damage, just not to the same level that force power increases force damage. Sadly idk what the ratio from one to the other is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVenom Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) lolwut? Power does increase force damage, just not to the same level that force power increases force damage. Sadly idk what the ratio from one to the other is. lolwut? I did not say that, did I? But since you mentioned it, why would you take an inferior stat over a superior one? Why don't you tell him to stack str as well? It seems that just because I did not explain why (which i really don't need to as the stickies and other will agree) doesn't make what I said wrong. Don't take power when you can get force power...period. Edited January 9, 2012 by SithVenom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirokai Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Maybe I missed the trinket that provided force power? Or the biochem adrenal that gave force power? Or the enhancements/mods with force power? I'll double check whenever I get back onto the game. Now when it comes to where power stands in relations to surge/crit in PvP is something I really don't know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashnazg Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) 2. Seriously? *Everything* I see seems to point to madness as being the vastly superior spec. 4. Wasn't sure if surge/crit stacking was what sorcs were supposed to do or throw in a decent amount of power as well. I don't really see the value of pumping madness past instant WW / wrath. True, I get more damage on dots, but dots don't kill people, burst does, so taking top level dot is not an option for me, I need my chain lightning. Otherwise, the lightning pvp talents (root on overload, blind on shield) are more valuable than madness dps talents for my survivability. Also because surge caps out so low, it makes no sense to use the purple surge adrenal, it'll go to waste. Its better to use power adrenals and surge relics. Edited January 9, 2012 by Ashnazg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirokai Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I don't really see the value of pumping madness past instant WW / wrath. True, I get more damage on dots, but dots don't kill people, burst does, so taking top level dot is not an option for me, I need my chain lightning. Otherwise, the lightning pvp talents (root on overload, blind on shield) are more valuable than madness dps talents for my survivability. I'll have to try out a build like that once I can run premades and have reliable back-up when needed. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithVenom Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I did say why would you pick an inferior over a superior right? Let me stop drinking. Also, crit is blatantly your main focus when you look at the talent tree itself. Almost everything about lightning screams, "You better crit". And madness has some as well, but moreso for sins then anything. You are gonna need a lot of "power" to compete with crit/surge and the synergy it has to the talent trees, let alone even sacrifing crit/surge for "power" is utterly stupid. Crit and increasing crits damage as well as giving talent boosts to other moves when you crit will win you fights with these specs not "power". Edited January 9, 2012 by SithVenom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokonoso Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 yea with those numbers he is clearly using 16 madness and the rest lightning, was my first high dps build i made via number crunching, it pops the most aoe dps period (ive yet to see another class do more) and still has insane single target (unsure if highest, have 2 other builds that might beat it single target but no parsers to check). but yea stack crit/surge like everyone else, power = force power as far as ratio goes and willpower sux, always substitute power or crit for willpower, they gimped us by making willpower terrible, cunning on the other hand is amazing so it's not fair for them since they can stack cunning and power/surge and hit harder than us while still having same crit/surge ratios... but that's a diff argument, once parsers go live we will be able to ask for buffs/nerfs based on the #'s we find. my lvl'ing build looked something like http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZbsMrdRbuZcMcRs0z.1 with 1 point leftover (respec'd at 50), if i had a dedicated healer i wouldnt run hybrid but i simply spend too much time healing myself at this time to switch :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEonias Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Sorry Guys for my poor English, but why do you always think, that this guy is a sorc ? could also be an assasin. yeah the healing medals... from pots.... working well in bgs because the 5 k hit medal... is usually done by assasins...sorcs usually don´t hit harder then 3 to 4 k with trinkets and pots ... the symbol of the guy in first place just says... inquisitor.. not sorc or assasin... please keep this in mind... before stating that sorcs are always OP cheersEo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzeriv Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Sorry Guys for my poor English, but why do you always think, that this guy is a sorc ? could also be an assasin. yeah the healing medals... from pots.... working well in bgs because the 5 k hit medal... is usually done by assasins... sorcs usually don´t hit harder then 3 to 4 k with trinkets and pots ... the symbol of the guy in first place just says... inquisitor.. not sorc or assasin... please keep this in mind... before stating that sorcs are always OP cheers Eo Maybee the fact that if you look at the bottom of the picture you can see his name and sith sorceror under it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthJopeous Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I don't see why people hate over others doing great damage. Play the class better and you match up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEonias Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Panzeriv you are right... i looked again ... and yeah his side had a lot of kills.. and yes he is a sorcerer... with grenades ... and everything... but 1 think is real... for pve ... we don´t have hard hitting spells... we are good , maybe very good in pvp... but for pve its very hard .. with Single Target ! Our hardest hitting Spells as a Sorcerer is Chain Lighning.. thats more than strange... our 31 lighning tree talent is hitting lower with greater cd then chain lighning.. why... is this a 31 talent... sorc is pretty fun to play in pvp... but in pve its not fun to see that we are at the end of single target damage cheers eo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwnyride Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Why do people always assume that the size of a single ability determines the dps potential for a class? With the 0/13/28 madness spec. A sorc has ~5dots and a few nukes. Just because CL or FL doesnt hit like a truck doesnt matter but there is dmg constantly rolling across from dots which can crit, unlike wow dots until Wotlk. Ive seen lots of sorcs destroying bgs, and making everyone on the server QQ about how much dmg they can do while spitting out mad healz. A few big numbers is just as effective as lots and lots of little numbers. Just doesnt scream OMG DID U SEE THAT CRIT. But who cares, i like the fact that when all hell is breaking lose i can run around rolling dots and am still doing damage to bosses while everyone else is unable to touch them because of AOE or "insert mechanic here". IMO we are disgustingly overpowered. Edited January 9, 2012 by Pwnyride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEonias Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 @pwnryde you are right , we don´t need high numbers.. but overall dps should be the same on single target as other classes can do... and please do not mix pvp and pve... yeah out heal ist great in pvp... but in a pve environment my raid leader wants me to damage... when i´m lightning or madness specced... and there is no need for a heal from a dd... you have full healers there...i m just talking about pve single target damage.. well i just see 2 dots and not 5 dots... with 0/13/28 creeping terror isn´t there with only 28 points...you only have crushing darkness and afflication thats it... the only thing i say.. our pve single target damage isnt good enough cheers eo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryn Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) the best part is when your Sorc buddy puts out 3 times the damage and takes less than 1/2 the damage than you do as a Tank... apparently BW took the "glass cannon" and wrapped that ***** in steel platting... High damage class that can double as a main healer? ...sounds good to me. lol. Edited January 9, 2012 by Gryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) well ive broken 500k in a pug without surge adrenals or anything so i guess if i was in a premade with adrenals then 600k or 700k would be doable our single target dmg tho is still questionable compared to other classes we shouldnt have to pop adrenals and wz buffs to do decent dmg we're the squishiest class and yet i see operatives snipers juggernauts mercenarys all with better single target burst than we Edited January 9, 2012 by wwkingms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwnyride Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) @pwnryde you are right , we don´t need high numbers.. but overall dps should be the same on single target as other classes can do... and please do not mix pvp and pve... yeah out heal ist great in pvp... but in a pve environment my raid leader wants me to damage... when i´m lightning or madness specced... and there is no need for a heal from a dd... you have full healers there... i m just talking about pve single target damage.. well i just see 2 dots and not 5 dots... with 0/13/28 creeping terror isn´t there with only 28 points... you only have crushing darkness and afflication thats it... the only thing i say.. our pve single target damage isnt good enough cheers eo My question is, how are able to say that PVE dmg isnt good? How are u able to compare ur dmg vs the dmg of another class to say that u cant do good dps? the only combat logs in any existance in the game are in BGs which will certainly not give u accurate data on dps capabilities Edited January 9, 2012 by Pwnyride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashnazg Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 well ive broken 500k in a pug without surge adrenals or anything so i guess if i was in a premade with adrenals then 600k or 700k would be doable our single target dmg tho is still questionable compared to other classes we shouldnt have to pop adrenals and wz buffs to do decent dmg we're the squishiest class and yet i see operatives snipers juggernauts mercenarys all with better single target burst than we Honestly, being a premade means you do less damage, not more, because a) the games end faster (unless you specifically beg your teammates to slow them down, which is pitiful) and b) your friends (presumably competent dps as well) will take some of the damage away from you. For the absolute perfect storm, you'd want to use adrenals on cooldown, get every red buff, fight in a pug vs pug environment in voidstar, and have the game go the entire 15 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Honestly, being a premade means you do less damage, not more, because a) the games end faster (unless you specifically beg your teammates to slow them down, which is pitiful) and b) your friends (presumably competent dps as well) will take some of the damage away from you. For the absolute perfect storm, you'd want to use adrenals on cooldown, get every red buff, fight in a pug vs pug environment in voidstar, and have the game go the entire 15 minutes. but u said they were mostly 50's thein them surviving longer and u doing more dmg.. i wouldnt put it past a premade to drag out a match.. in fact it happens more often than not i highly doubt u did that much dmg in a 5 minute match also the amoutn of deaths im seeing on the other team 17 etc.. implies a LONG match save the mularky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) unfortunately posts like this will keep people thinking we're op and devs not taking a look at the class id rather do more single target dmg in forfeit of all that mass group dmg at 500 expertise and self buffed no adrenals my chain lightning crits for ~ 2400 on equal geared targets on tanky targets it crits for ~1800 thats just fking pitiful that same tanky target is critting me for 3k and upwards easily our dmg is nothing to brag about also while other classses have defensive cooldowns our only defensive cooldown remains to be RUNNING AWAY Edited January 9, 2012 by wwkingms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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