kravechocolate Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It fails on a fundamental level because meaningful story cannot be generated by developers faster than users consume it. What goes into a good story? Plot. Memorable characters. Conflict. Change. Interesting environments. Realistic dialogue. I shudder to think of the army of people that it took to give us such 8 wonderful, moving class stories in SWTOR. 1-49 had all this. I loved it, every minute of it. Level 50 has none of this. My companions won't interject dialogue anymore. My character doesn't grow anymore. When I log in these days, I wonder, "Why am I doing this?" And I don't want that answer to be, "because the best-in-slot gear is this way". That is the losing answer, because of this other game on the market that will provide more than the good people at Bioware ever can in that particular arena. Your executive and design meetings should turn its efforts on turning SWTOR into a sandbox game. Let players write their own stories. You've shown me where my character comes from -- now give me the tools to play out the rest of his career. And for heaven sakes, don't ask me to roll an alt. Your mission worked, Bioware. Your story connected me with my character. I made the choices that defined him. I want to play him, not some new random person who happens to share a last name. Don't make me turn him into some mindless raider or pvp commendation grinder. Sun Tzu wrote, "You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended." Raiding bosses, dungeon finder, daily quests, commendation vendors, and all that jazz -- those are the enemy's heavily defended bastions. I beg you Bioware. Do not waste your resources assaulting those positions. You cannot hope to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I played KOTOR three times, and KOTOR 2 nine times, I'm sure I can play this game a dozen times playing different characters for the next couple of years with out them even adding in new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kravechocolate Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Ahh, but did you pay a monthly fee for KOTOR 1 and 2 while you were playing them over and over? Let's say the next three years passes (in your words, "couple of years") with no new content. Do you really feel justified in paying $600 for a game ($60 + 36*15)? Do you think other gamers will bite on that deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Ahh, but did you pay a monthly fee for KOTOR 1 and 2 while you were playing them over and over? Let's say the next three years passes (in your words, "couple of years") with no new content. Do you really feel justified in paying $600 for a game ($60 + 36*15)? Do you think other gamers will bite on that deal? Thats the thing I dont think people have thought about. Are they willing to pay $15 a month for The Alt Republic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Wannabe Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I played KOTOR three times, and KOTOR 2 nine times, I'm sure I can play this game a dozen times playing different characters for the next couple of years with out them even adding in new content. I would be happy if they focused more on adding new races, new classes, and new level 1-49 planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I would be happy if they focused more on adding new races, new classes, and new level 1-49 planets. That won't happen outside of an expansion which you will have to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flunkorg Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Answer me this, did Kotor 1 or 2 have any kind of mmo/multiplayer component? No? Then your argument is void simply on that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kravechocolate Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 I would be happy if they focused more on adding new races, new classes, and new level 1-49 planets. That's the crux of the issue. You cannot write good stories, and then spin them into 3D magic, faster than people read and consume your stories. That was my main point. To survive, Bioware must create tools for users to generate their own content. Stop giving us a pretty-in-plastic theme park and give us some wood and nails and glue! Because right next door is another theme park that opened its doors eight years ago, and has an insurmountable lead in both time and resources to build bigger roller coasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzzenn Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 well thats what happens when they don't talk to the community, most are getting frustrated by the lack of communication from bioware than the bugs or issues they are finding in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Answer me this, did Kotor 1 or 2 have any kind of mmo/multiplayer component? No? Then your argument is void simply on that fact. They didnt cost $15 a month either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdatik Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Ahh, but did you pay a monthly fee for KOTOR 1 and 2 while you were playing them over and over? Let's say the next three years passes (in your words, "couple of years") with no new content. But that's not going to happen... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norumaniac Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Ahh, but did you pay a monthly fee for KOTOR 1 and 2 while you were playing them over and over? Let's say the next three years passes (in your words, "couple of years") with no new content. Do you really feel justified in paying $600 for a game ($60 + 36*15)? Do you think other gamers will bite on that deal? Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priddler Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Inb4 mods lock another on-topic thread for being negative. Absolutely pathetic. 50% of every thread I try to post in is closed by the time I finish writing. I wasn't convinced that many people were leaving the game but now I am, with BioWare sending out the PR crew to ATTEMPT to clear up the face of the forums. They lock every negative thread but still find more, it's incredible. Never seen anything like it, really. To be fair, they have also been locking pointless fan-boy threads as well today.... Edited January 9, 2012 by Priddler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Thats the thing I dont think people have thought about. Are they willing to pay $15 a month for The Alt Republic? I guess that depends. $15 is nothing compared to any other form of entainment. FFS I pay $80 for lousy cable and I spend more time in game than I do watching TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleSpoiler Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) But that's not going to happen... ? Yeah, seriously. I mean, they already released a patch with a new level 50 flashpoint, and it hasn't even been a month since release. If you're playing purely for the story (which there are 8 different stories to play through, 16 if you count light/dark being separate, like some of my friends do), you're honestly doing it wrong. It's called an MMORPG for a reason. And even though story is more important in TOR than it is in most other MMOs, it's still an MMO. If they wanted it to be a single player game with multiplayer elements, then they would have made a single player game, or done something like GW1 did. So then, why not find yourself a good guild and hop in and do Flashpoints or Ops or PvP? It is a multiplayer game, after all, and the focus of the content, especially new content before a level cap expansion, will be multiplayer focused. Edited January 9, 2012 by DoubleSpoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbidillusion Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 To be fair, they have also been locking pointless fan-boy threads as well today.... Only once the thread itself was overpowered by opposition inside it. I was just in some thread with about 11 pages and the OP was about how the game was great and the people who said it was bad were a minority. Thread gets locked 11 pages in instead of about 5 minutes in which is the average for an outright negative thread on the forums the past two days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kravechocolate Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Only once the thread itself was overpowered by opposition inside it. I was just in some thread with about 11 pages and the OP was about how the game was great and the people who said it was bad were a minority. Thread gets locked 11 pages in instead of about 5 minutes in which is the average for an outright negative thread on the forums the past two days. I don't think I was being negative for its own sake. I'm just describing the current situation as I see it, while offering a suggestion to make it a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbidillusion Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I don't think I was being negative for its own sake. I'm just describing the current situation as I see it, while offering a suggestion to make it a bit better. Doesn't matter; anything that looks bad for the game is getting locked. If you read nothing but the first page of this forum's thread titles when the mods haven't been active for about an hour it's literally 50% or more negative threads. You can tell when they are active because the front page looks suspiciously calm and neutral. I can count like 4 threads right now that will be locked as soon as the mod activity picks up again, including this one. Edited January 9, 2012 by morbidillusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noctowl Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I guess TV shows fail because of all the things the OP mentioned. No advancement until the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilSaihah Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 SUN TZU SAID THAT AND I THINK HE KNOWS A LITTLE MORE ABOUT DEVELOPING MMOS THAN YOU DO, BIOWARE. I thought that was a funny line to add at the end, though it is true. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wikimon Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 this is the best post i've read on these forums. would have wrote something similar once reaching 50 myself, i'm sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riho Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Sorry but most of the threads in this forum on the General Discussion page are just plain comical, fan boys vs. haters. Neither side will win and most of it is just hot air with limited 'suggestions'. Sorry but if you want the pulse of the game and useful information visit some of the other forums on SWTOR, some people enjoy the game and others do not. The General forums are for the non-subscribers to voice their hate to fill some need to be 'l33t' on the interwebs before they crawl back to whatever 'better' game they decide to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kravechocolate Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I guess TV shows fail because of all the things the OP mentioned. No advancement until the next season. A, which has the attribute S, follows logic L Thus, B, which also has attribute S, must also follow logic L. But B doesn't follow logic L! Well, then A must not follow logic L as well. Let me put in some things in there and you'll see how silly this is. A mouse, which is a mammal, lives on average for two years. Well that can't be! A human being, which is also a mammal, lives for more than two years. Thus, mice can't live on average for two years. Which is to say, TV shows and MMOs are not nearly similar enough to draw logical conclusions from metaphors. Although they do rhyme... Edited January 9, 2012 by kravechocolate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koboldfodder Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It doesn't work on the MMO level. But this game is more of a single player Bioware game than a MMO. I dont think you realize just how many people are fans of Bioware games. I buy every one of them, you are almost always getting a superior product. There are lots of people who have no serious interest in the MMO aspects of this game. They want to play each class and some of them will play the same class different gender. I will say that this game is inferior to the Mass Effect series in terms of the cinematic qualities but it's better than the Dragon Age series. If you approach the game from the mindset of the single person RPG player, this game can last a long time. These players do not play the game like the MMO hardcore players. When you look at the game from the prospective of a traditional MMO player, it does not have as much impact. It's a pretty bland MMO and lacks a lot of the basic functions the successful level/raid MMOs have. This game has attracted a lot single player market. You can question the design of the game, I sure do, from a MMO player's point of view but as a fan of Bioware games I enjoy this game. There is one big, legitimate question you can ask. Can Bioware keep up the demand for NEW content and still maintain the level of voice overs (16 class voice overs plus all the NPC voice overs) to keep people interested in the game down the road? There will come a point where the single RPG players have played all the original classes they want to play and will be looking for new stuff. I think at that point the serious MMO gamers will have already left the game, but there still will be a lot of hangers on and that large single player audience. If they can put out QUALITY expansions or additions or whatever you want to call it in less than a year's time (like SOE, who have mastered the art of marketing a MMO expansion wise) they will be fine. What is the worse that can happen? People stop playing and cancel their subscription and come back in 7 months or so to check things out. Isn't that how everyone already plays this genre anyways? I know I have about 7 accounts on various MMOs that I keep resubbing and canceling in little chunks to just play for a while. Those games are all still going strong, no reason this game cannot. That being said....heh, I will probably cancel when my free month is up. I am looking for more of a MMO than a single person RPG with lite MMO stuff to the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riho Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 And back on topic, I'm concerned for the longevity of the game as far as the depth of future questing as well. It seems they set the bar a bit too high having a 'fully voiced' MMO and greatly underestimated some of the player base powering through content(i.e. Spacebar commandos). We'll see if they can continue with this model or continue to market the casual Single player RPG( rerollers ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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