Kuvi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I just want a chat channel called combat log that shows something along the lines of... You hit Bloke with Super-Smashy hit for 412 points Bloke hits You with Sharp Feather Duster for 12 points Bob Criticality hits Bloke with Rifle Shot for 706 points You hit Bloke with Stabby-Stabby hit for 652 points Bloke is dead This has a lot of potential. Edit: I'm headed to sleep now. No hard feelings towards anyone, I apologize for how snarky I am. Goodnight! Edited January 10, 2012 by Kuvi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfab Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I personally find Recount to be a tool used by elitists to shun gamers who don't have the skill/time to play up to the "standards" of others. I am quite happy to have a MMO that I love to play that does not include mods of any kind. Not just because they would be abused, but because they would bog down the game and in my case, make it near unplayable. I just don't have a rig that would support mods. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Amen to that! Recount would only open up a can of worms that is best left closed. If you want Recount, go back to WoW please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslegion Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Yes to a damage meter (not recount it was not reliable a.k.a Skada) and yes to threat meters. But these yes votes come woth preconditions and a warning from a WoW guildmaster of 5 years. Do not use recount as an indicator of a players worth within a group or guild. So many times a player who is not doing as much dps as another may be doing different things that benefit the group in other ways (offhealing,interupts) As a GM and a raidleader through all the current content in WoW i use recount (skada actually with wowlogs scrutinised after the raid) only as an advisory of someones potential not as the last word as to wether someone is carrying their weight within said group. You cannot easily do these things within PUGs and it serves little purpose other than to demoralise and bellitle players by using meters. I played as Tank for the majority of WoW and recount (skada) does not help to show when a tank is NOT doing his duties or missing interupts, not using defensive cooldowns. Tanks are fast to criticise DPS players. Healing also cannot be easily measured using meters as some classes heal in different methods or have set assigned duties to perform in a raid making the meter useless as an evaluation tool. So a yes to these things in time, A LARGE NO! to using it to devaluate players and demoralise others in groups by constantly linking meters to stretch your "epeen" Raid Leaders and Guildmasters DO NOT need DPS meters to know they have what is needed in a guild group, this is assured through GOOD leadership and recruitment. If your relying on recount to show your good players then you have failed as said raidleader and as GM. A plea to Bioware: Please please for the love of god do not turn this game into World of Warcraft V2. Many many of us left WoW for good reasons and to have all these problems appear here would be a design failure. Think outside of WoWs design box please! Jay. Edited January 10, 2012 by godslegion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This has a lot of potential. Not really. It would have to be more like: I just want a chat channel called combat log that shows something along the lines of... [11:25:10:24]You hit Bloke with Super-Smashy hit for 412 points [11:25:10:38]Bloke hits You with Sharp Feather Duster for 12 points Real logs contain all kinds of crazy stuff meant for parsing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercia Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) You went from saying recount would help stop bullying to saying it wouldn't. I also have no idea what ever would have fueled an opinion coming out of me in an opinion based thread. Although recount not creating matchmaking brackets is fact. Oh, and hey it must make sense because it's your opinion. (Oh by the way, it'd be lovely if you clarified what sense you're referring to in the first statement) But really, the whole guild situation is leaning towards off topic. Pretty much along the lines of this Eventually they will find a place where they belong and in the guild context is that yes it did stop any bullying from happening becouse i removed any threat of potential bullying. Simple fact of the matter is somewhere someone is going to get bullied be it game/school/out on the street To denie the masses a good tool becouse of a selection of bad players are getting bullied dosnt really make sence to me i garantee you that some people in SWTOR are getting bullied now its not the tool thats the problem its the PEOPLE Edited January 10, 2012 by Mercia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontdieplez Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Only the noobs say we don't need recount or a damage meter. There's a thing called min maxing that all the good people work on to be the best they can possibly be. I agree with alot of people in here. We need to weed out all the bad players. Please for the love of god give us a damage meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Compromises arent required. Frankly, if someone is misusing the tool that badly, I wouldn't want to play with them. Then again, noones ever complained about my DPS/interupts and I don't stand in fire. Coincidence? There's nothing wrong with people "abusing" these tools the way they were meant to be used in the first place anyway. What's wrong is content balanced against the tools. Let's say that without damage meters the difference between people doing their rotations is 5% just in the top bracket, while an average casual will have as far as 10-15% lower dps doing his rotation he figured out however he did. As soon as you introduce damage meters, this number shrinks to maybe 1% in the top bracket of players, and at most 3-5% between the top player and the average player, because everyone can just stare at the number and figure out their top dps rotation pretty quickly. You must then balance content appropriately. Hardmode will allow 1% variation, normal mode maybe 10%, and that's still a far fetch if you want it to be at least a bit challenging. What then happens to the average casual (i.e. our player base that are paying the subscriptions to make new content roll out at a decent rate), that doesn't really want to use the add-ons. He's at about 10-15% behind the top, and as long as he doesn't use add-ons, he'll have to spend ridiculous amounts of time theorycrafting to get even into normal runs. Or use add-ons. The ones some people here call "optionals". Not a good thing. Now I feel for you and your "why should I carry people through content" but as a PUG raid leader from another game 99% of the time just taking the first applicants and talking to them for 30 seconds would tell me if we'd complete or not. Here you can even inspect their gear, to see if they have an idea of what they're doing with their character, while talking to them. I think PUG leaders have all the tools they need already, and are just being lazy. Oh, also, not finishing on the first try every single time isn't really that terrible. A fail once or twice a month won't kill your experience, trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimbotcfg Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Amen to that! Recount would only open up a can of worms that is best left closed. If you want Recount, go back to WoW please. You do know other MMO's besides wow have combat logs / damage meters / parsers etc? Or are you one of the 'Be different from WoW for the sake of being different' crew? That mentality is insane, can you imagine if car manufacturors had taken that approach? "We wont use round wheels, aircon, cd players or seatbelts, cause thats what that other company uses".... Actually rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh, and, I'm all for combat logs if they don't contain any timestamps. I like to see what's going on, but parsing them for DPS and HPS and whatnot is bad in the same way the meters are bad as I described in the earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimbotcfg Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh, also, not finishing on the first try every single time isn't really that terrible. A fail once or twice a month won't kill your experience, trust me. I'm not saying it will, but failing over and over because someone isn't doing their job and you cant tell who. Thats just obtuse and needless when there are proven ways which work and increase the enjoyment of the game. Don't like the meter? Don't use it, if you are as solid as you say without one then you wont get griefed. Issue solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh, and, I'm all for combat logs if they don't contain any timestamps. I like to see what's going on, but parsing them for DPS and HPS and whatnot is bad in the same way the meters are bad as I described in the earlier post. A "combat log" without timestamps is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Have you two even read my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskevosi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Pretty much along the lines of this Eventually they will find a place where they belong and in the guild context is that yes it did stop any bullying from happening becouse i removed any threat of potential bullying. Simple fact of the matter is somewhere someone is going to get bullied be it game/school/out on the street To denie the masses a good tool becouse of a selection of bad players are getting bullied dosnt really make sence to me i garantee you that some people in SWTOR are getting bullied now its not the tool thats the problem its the PEOPLE Its not JUST down to how people use the tool. Example: If guns didn't exist, you couldn't shoot someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Have you two even read my post? Yeah, I read it. I just don't really care. Sure, addons won't really be optional. I honestly don't care that much. If it becomes a problem then Bioware can add the DPS meter to the core UI. Why don't we make a Counterstrike server that doesn't show K/D ratios while we're at it? Edited January 10, 2012 by AlpsStranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimbotcfg Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Have you two even read my post? Yes, I'm waiting to read an actual valid point to reply to instead of just conjecture and groundless fear mongering about the content becoming undo-able. Hard modes are meant to be hard, not just a place where you can stroll through and get better gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontdieplez Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 WTB world of logs for swtor!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) really recount makes the game easier? more like exposes the bad players who are not pulling there weight in a grp, or suck at there class, only bad players support not have a damage meter and any way to record performance It's super easy to "cheat" this graph by spamming unneded actions (decures people without curse for example). In addition some bad players might try to over-perform just to be the Nr.1 which is contra productiv. For DDs: pulling aggro from the tank just to get the #1 DPS at any graph == FAIL! Sometimes less is more . (less spike damage but stay alive for the hole fight). PS: Good group/raid leader see how well their members perform just by rotating the camera and checking the movement and animations . Another good indicator is how often someone dies at boss fights or how often the tank dies as he get no heal or how often a DD draw aggro. Good tanks lose aggro very rare, bad tanks have hard times to hold aggro even against bad DDs or healers. But this all can't be displayed by a graph! And bad wannabe roxors would just take this graph for random flames, rages or false apologies. Edited January 10, 2012 by Jahor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercia Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I just dont get the argument its bad for the game? No if you dont want one its bad for YOUR game Its fecking GREAT for my game as now i have more information to put a raid together CAPABLE of clearing the content instead of banging my head against a brick wall for 3 hours All the bads can get together and do that for 3 hours no problem knock your self out Ill just be going and clearing all this content on nightmare while you do that yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enako Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 no i dont. i dont want this game to be turned into a minmaxing contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 no i dont. i dont want this game to be turned into a minmaxing contest. Hahahahahahahahaha! You've played a themepark MMORPG before, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yeah, I read it. I just don't really care. Sure, addons won't really be optional. I honestly don't care that much. If it becomes a problem then Bioware can add the DPS meter to the core UI. Why don't we make a Counterstrike server that doesn't show K/D ratios while we're at it? Last time I checked, KD ratio mattered zero in CS, all that mattered was planting/disarming the bomb. Also CS doesn't even have a DPS/headshot meter. Does that make it non-competitive? Yes, I'm waiting to read an actual valid point to reply to instead of just conjecture and groundless fear mongering about the content becoming undo-able. Hard modes are meant to be hard, not just a place where you can stroll through and get better gear. And hard modes can't be hard without a damage meter? Because I haven't yet seen a convincing argument that would support this idea. All I see is people that came from wow, where hard-mode just means you need to use add-ons to breeze through it. You can call it fear mongering, but if DPS meters are included in any form whatsoever, they will become mandatory for any hard content. Now again, I personally will use them, because I like them, but why should we force the people that don't want them to use them? I can theorycraft just fine without them, all it takes is a bit more effort and a good stopwatch app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulduet Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Nothing about if they should make a recount/threat meter whatever, it's about making the game moddable by the community. WoW doesn't have a built in dps meter. No reason swtor should have one. Beg for descent modding added to the game and hope someone takes the time to make an addon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 WTB world of logs for swtor!!!!! Oh hell yea. I love getting high ranking parses and seeing my name on there. I just feels so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technotica Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) But finding out why you fail over and over is usually really easy. Does the tank die first? Then either the tank doesn't have enough damage mitigation/absorption/health etc. makes bad pulls or the healer isn't healing well enough. Does the healer die first? Then the tank isn't keeping aggro well enough or the healer is damaging mobs s/he shouldn't. Do DPS die a lot? Again either the tank isn't holding aggro well or the dps are doing too much damage/ damage the wrong mobs. Find out who the problem is, talk to them to see what they are doing wrong.. and then either help them become better or kick them for another . It seems easy to me? Edited January 10, 2012 by Technotica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansheedragon Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Don't like the meter? Don't use it, if you are as solid as you say without one then you wont get griefed. Issue solved. That is a load of crap and you know it. I tried this in wow, and guess what happened. They ended up developing the game around these addons, so in the end I had no choice but to use them or not be able to do the content. The "OPTION" as you call it was no longer there, the addons were forced upon me. Why dont you just admit it, you want this game to be wow in space, and nothing else. Edited January 10, 2012 by Bansheedragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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