Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Hairless]

The game is fine without recount and macros. I didn't think I would enjoy it so much to play without having that stuff FORCED on me. There's other ways to find out if people are slacking (like observing them).

 

No one is forcing it on you. You can play with other people who don't like meters. There's obviously plenty.

 

Observe them for what? How fast their lightsaber is spinning?

The most fair and accurate form of observation is through meters.

[AlpsStranger]

I don't like number crunching,

 

This is what bothers me the most I think. Why is math antithetical to fun? I guess I just don't get it. I'm not claiming that math is necessarily *intrinsically* fun, but I really don't see how it detracts from a game. I'm not the King of Math or anything, but I guess I respect/enjoy math when I run across it.

 

As far as number crunching being unfair to the non-math people... it gets so much worse out there in the real world. Most states have a department that does nothing but take money from people based on their mathematical naivete.

Edited January 10, 2012 by AlpsStranger

[Varghjerta]

If Dual Specc gets implemented this game will defiently will need performance meters

[Iskevosi]

The problem with any meters in any game is that they are taken far too seriously by people and in turn are then used as a tool against others to kill their enjoyment of a game that they are paying to play.

 

I am not against meters if they are personal. You get to see your own numbers and mob numbers only.

[DavesTheName]

Let the kids have their recount but if anybody in any of my groups constantly says "link dm" after every single group of mobs they get kicked and blacklisted, just like in WoW.

[Dacks]

For personal use only is an option. Include information of every CC broken, every mob successfully tanked, healing / over healing, pretty much every type of info that a player can use to improve. Not just leet-kiddy dps!!1!

 

Spamming chat channels with damage done really gets old and fast. What is never considered is that it is only because of the tank holding agro and the person healing them that any DPS is done at all.

 

Limit the public nature of SW:TOR addons or just do not have them at all. The latter is my preference as it is only adequate group composition that matters when achieving one's goal.

[Hairless]

I don't like number crunching, and I don't like it being forced on me.

 

The thing is, most of us don't even have to do any number crunching. I just go on the forums and stuff to check out what the smart guys figured out and verified by the community.

 

When you look through Recount, do you calculate anything? No. Amazingly everything is already calculated out, recorded, and sorted nicely.

 

I really don't remember having to do any number crunching when I played WoW, and I used meters, raided hardcore, was pro, and etc. I guess I wasn't a theorycrafter. Didn't know everyone had to be one.

[Elloa]

I do NOT support a version of recount.

 

1. It's not needed for hardcore players. Hardcore players are generaly smart and very hardcore, they will find a way anyway to mesure their performances and improve rotations and such.

 

2. For bad players and casual players, Recount was only beeing used either to mock others, and brag their own performance, or to be the target of mockery by others.

 

3. DPS meters encourage DPS to focus on dpsing as fast as possible, and do the most damage without considering other alternatives such as CC, stun etc. Not always the best DPS is the best player.

 

4. DPS meter would just be another step to follow the path of World of Warcraft, which would nto fit a game such SWTOR.

 

5. It's a different game. Learn to appreciate difference and be able to deal with changes. Recount had never been needed, it has been a tool, a convenience in a certain game. Time to do something else today. Human had been blessed with intelligence and are able to adapt themselves to change. Or..are we?

[TheHauntingBard]

1. It's not needed for hardcore players. Hardcore players are generaly smart and very hardcore, they will find a way anyway to mesure their performances and improve rotations and such.

 

Actually hardcore players min/max in both spec and rotations.

They will usually log the fight and break everything down in a log.

Even though with out a combat log/recount they can figure some things out most of it remains guessing with out number.

 

It's a spreadsheet MMO based on numbers and formula's, simple as that.

 

2. For bad players and casual players, Recount was only beeing used either to mock others, and brag their own performance, or to be the target of mockery by others.

 

Define casual player please.

You can raid 'casual' times but still want to play at the best you can, you can also log in 2 hours a week.

In fact 3 day raiding guilds tend to be considered as 'casual' and some are a lot more hardcore than the 5 day counter parts.

 

Most of all people don't harass each other because of recount in pugs, they harass each other because they are morons.

Pug behaviour has never been that good, keep that in mind before making wild claims.

 

3. DPS meters encourage DPS to focus on dpsing as fast as possible, and do the most damage without considering other alternatives such as CC, stun etc. Not always the best DPS is the best player.

 

You assume they do.

Also what about

- Damage taken

-Death log

-Dispels

-Interrupts

-Over healing.

 

I would like to monitor it but you focus your argument on >>>Damage<<<

 

4. DPS meter would just be another step to follow the path of World of Warcraft, which would nto fit a game such SWTOR.

 

Parsers have been out since EQ and I am pretty sure before.

They are not WOW related, WOW is just a MMO that has a parser.

 

5. It's a different game. Learn to appreciate difference and be able to deal with changes. Recount had never been needed, it has been a tool, a convenience in a certain game. Time to do something else today. Human had been blessed with intelligence and are able to adapt themselves to change. Or..are we

 

 

Bioware uses tight enrage timers in their hard modes.

It clearly states >Do X DPS or you wipe< they went the way of 'WOW" as you call it.

In that case you might as well give people access to numbers since these encounters force you to spec/DPS in a certain way.

 

Also giving people access to data means more fun and complex encounters instead of straight out gear checks with enrage timers.

Edited January 10, 2012 by TheHauntingBard

[ziggycat]

I personally find Recount to be a tool used by elitists to shun gamers who don't have the skill/time to play up to the "standards" of others. I am quite happy to have a MMO that I love to play that does not include mods of any kind. Not just because they would be abused, but because they would bog down the game and in my case, make it near unplayable. I just don't have a rig that would support mods.

 

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Halacs]

Actually hardcore players min/max in both spec and rotations.

They will usually log the fight and break everything down in a log.

Even though with out a combat log/recount they can figure some things out most of it remains guessing with out number.

 

It's a spreadsheet MMO based on numbers and formula's, simple as that.

 

 

 

Define casual player please.

You can raid 'casual' times but still want to play at the best you can, you can also log in 2 hours a week.

In fact 3 day raiding guilds tend to be considered as 'casual' and some are a lot more hardcore than the 5 day counter parts.

 

Most of all people don't harass each other because of recount in pugs, they harass each other because they are morons.

Pug behaviour has never been that good, keep that in mind before making wild claims.

 

 

 

You assume they do.

Also what about

- Damage taken

-Death log

-Dispels

-Interrupts

-Over healing.

 

I would like to monitor it but you focus your argument on >>>Damage<<<

 

 

 

Bioware uses tight enrage timers in their hard modes.

It clearly states >Do X DPS or you wipe< they went the way of 'WOW" as you call it.

In that case you might as well give people access to numbers since these encounters force you to spec/DPS in a certain way.

 

Also giving people access to data means more fun and complex encounters instead of straight out gear checks with enrage timers.

 

 

Well said.

[Kuvi]

No - the majority is not going to use the tool constructively. Anyone who thinks differently is naive, bragging and putting things over others is human nature. As many before me have stated, it's not difficult to see who's ridiculously slacking as the game currently is. You can already gauge yourself and others without a meter - and if you can't, then you should use your logic of wanting to "challenge yourself to be better" and your zero tolerance for less than a 100% to learn how to do this task.

 

Also, everyone is asking for addons now. When they are implemented the new topic

of the month will be how addons made things too easy.

 

The grass is always greener.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Kuvi

[AlpsStranger]

DPS meter would just be another step to follow the path of World of Warcraft, which would nto fit a game such SWTOR.

 

It would be like step #40325 this game has taken down the path of World of Warcraft. Anyone who has played more than three or four MMOs and denies that this is a WoW clone is either stupid or lying to themselves.

 

Human had been blessed with intelligence and are able to adapt themselves to change. Or..are we?

 

Really?

[Raawry]

No. Recount or any dps meter is just another tool that allows *****holes to be bigger *****holes.

 

t h i s i s a g a m e

[AlpsStranger]

t h i s i s a g a m e

 

Yeah, and adults don't have to throw play-dough at the wall to have fun. We can mix serious/competitive and fun quite well thank you very much.

[Hairless]

No - the majority is not going to use the tool constructively. Anyone who thinks differently is naive, bragging and putting things over others is human nature. As many before me have stated, it's not difficult to see who's ridiculously slacking as the game currently is. You can already gauge yourself and others without a meter - and if you can't, then you should use your logic of wanting to "challenge yourself to be better" and your zero tolerance for less than a 100% to learn how to do this task.

 

Also, everyone is asking for addons now. When they are implemented the new topic

of the month will be how addons made things too easy.

 

The grass is always greener.

 

lol. Just because YOU had bad experience constantly being abused by other terrible players in terrible pugs using Recount, doesn't mean the majority had the same experience.

 

I've never seen an average player, the majority, get abused in pugs just because he was on the bottom half of the meter.

 

If he was on the very bottom, doing 1/4 of the DPS of others, died because he couldn't dodge something easy. Yea I think people made fun of people like that sometimes. But what's wrong with that? Welcome to the Internet. Play only with guilds or friends if you need to be carried.

[Berbo]

People swear up and down addons will ruin the game. I knew people that logged in for WOW just for the fishing dailies and contests. They could give a damn about a raid or any of this. How does recount ruin the experience for that guy?

 

 

They stopped playing because of *****y idots with "meters"?

[Jobedy]

Thanks Meluna.

 

 

I'll just end my thoughts on the subject by saying that so long as combat logs, damage meters, addons and macros are optional secondary features that need to be sought out and enabled; there is no reason for anyone to argue against their existence.

 

If your only argument is "I want you to play the game the way I play it" then your opinion's value is diminished, and you may as well keep it to yourself.

 

QFT,

 

And personally I'd like them, would be nice to know if i'm doing stuff right or wrong.

[Hairless]

They stopped playing because of *****y idots with "meters"?

 

I don't know. If you were so bad and people constantly gave you crap to the point you had to quit the game. Whose fault is it?

 

If people are telling you your performance isn't up to par, but you choose to ignore them, and keep pugging, keep doing bad, keep getting abused again, and repeat. Whose fault is it?

 

Stop grouping or raiding with pugs.

[KrelosDarksky]

I'd like it for personal reasons. It would give me a tool to see how well I am performing and provide feedback which would allow me to improve my gameplay.

 

But if it's used to kick someone out of a group...meh, that would suck.

 

We don't need add on's...

 

that's all I pretty much have to say. Maybe some people are having a withdrawl from not having a MOD tell them everything they need to know. Well adjust. What If I wanted a pink rainbow animal. Would I be able to get if I complained enough?

 

Yes to UI(They said they would do this)

 

NO to DRUGS and NO to ADD ON's.

 

This is a crutch for the weaker player's that cannot play with it being an add on or a bulit in tool. I don't want people spamming requirement's for DPS. I don't want this game to become work. If it does it LOSES ITS CASUAL APPEAL.

 

If they do make a recount in game. I will quit my sub in protest. I know other's will follow. Part of the reason we came here. We are tired of gear score...tired of recount..threat DBM. Wow has all of that and more if people want that.

 

This game has had great success without it and BECAUSE OF IT. It will no doubt divide the community. (Age old argument if you don't like it don't use it.) Really? so your telling me that raid asking people to join won't require a certain DPS. Well a built in tool is not optional. It is FORCED. You are forcing this down our throats while laughing in our face.

 

Let the game be as it is.

 

No - the majority is not going to use the tool constructively. Anyone who thinks differently is naive, bragging and putting things over others is human nature. As many before me have stated, it's not difficult to see who's ridiculously slacking as the game currently is. You can already gauge yourself and others without a meter - and if you can't, then you should use your logic of wanting to "challenge yourself to be better" and your zero tolerance for less than a 100% to learn how to do this task.

 

Also, everyone is asking for addons now. When they are implemented the new topic

of the month will be how addons made things too easy.

 

The grass is always greener.

 

 

 

 

All of the above ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And to \/THIS\/ guy ...

 

That depends on how mad they get when I paste their damage.

 

I think I gave this one anti-meter guy a heart attack in Rift when I used the external real-time parser and a little "Ctr-V" action. He was all like **** this, I quit, etc. It was fun, and he was mad bro.

 

 

 

And you wonder why this sort of add-on is not wanted or welcome.

 

Bioware is well aware of what will happen if this is implemented and would rather not see its game degraded into what your vision in tells.

 

 

 

.

Edited January 10, 2012 by KrelosDarksky

[Kuvi]

lol. Just because YOU had bad experience constantly being abused by other terrible players in terrible pugs using Recount, doesn't mean the majority had the same experience.

 

I've never seen an average player, the majority, get abused in pugs just because he was on the bottom half of the meter.

 

If he was on the very bottom, doing 1/4 of the DPS of others, died because he couldn't dodge something easy. Yea I think people made fun of people like that sometimes. But what's wrong with that? Welcome to the Internet. Play only with guilds or friends if you need to be carried.

 

This type of lashing out is a prime example of how we are not mature enough to have this tool.

 

Nowhere in my post did I say I was abused. Your retort had no substance - you immediately resorted to insults.

 

Since we're playing the insult game. In what way would developers benefit from giving you a tool that you've already proved you cannot handle?

[Raawry]

Yeah, and adults don't have to throw play-dough at the wall to have fun. We can mix serious/competitive and fun quite well thank you very much.

 

Clearly you haven't played many mmos. Recount and dps meters are the very reason most mmos are filled with elitist **** talking jerks. Stop kidding your self, you know its true.

 

tyvm.

[Raawry]

And you wonder why this sort of add-on is not wanted or welcome.

 

Bioware is well aware of what will happen if this is implemented and would rather not see its game degraded into what your vision in tells.

 

 

 

 

this^

[Soulchilde]

QFT,

 

And personally I'd like them, would be nice to know if i'm doing stuff right or wrong.

 

If you win the encounter you did it right. If you died during the encounter you did it wrong...

 

 

Keep this game different Bioware

[Darth_Vala]

Nope. Dont need it. Dont need gearscore either. I do expect to see LFGs up that say link all your equipped gear before accept and I anticipate ignoring such groups completely.

 

If a person pikes or does something completely idiotic I will ask them once and then kick if behaviour does not change. I dont kick people because of gear or underpar dps if it is not truly horrible and then you can usually tell even without any e-peen addon.

 

While I did enjoy the feeling of leading in killcounts etc. I felt that such meters led to bad behavioural models in some players.