Tracer Missile and Grav Round might need to be looked at

[Gwal]

its amazing how many times the interrupt ability has to wait for previous skill to finish before "interrupting" and miss that important window.

 

And then when the next one starts it's cancelled and blocked for 4 seconds....

 

That's assuming the trooper is spamming it like a noob as everyone keeps telling us they do.

[Gwal]

BH and Troopers specced into these trees are like a 600 horspower V8 with a .5 gallon fuel tank.

 

They hit hard , but if a fight goes longer than 30 seconds, they run out of gas quickly.

 

Why its balanced...

 

• Cant spam tracer and grav round while moving, making you vulnerable to melee. No real ability to fight while moving from other skills.
  
• Cast timer is slowed by any and every attack pushing the cast time beyond 2 seconds or interrupting it completely... meaning DPS is dramatically cut if the Trooper or BH is being shot at
  
• 
  

 

 

Anyones whos played BH/Troop knows Maraders and Sentinels will rip your face off, as will OP's and Scoundrels.

 

Basically... they only kill when you leave them to spew damage, the minute you start shooting back or healing, or if the fight lasts longer than 30 seconds, their DPS goes to sh**.

 

I whish this was the second post in the thread. It really would have saved a lot of time.

 

Well said.

[Dinams]

Someone said that they (Mercs/Commandos) are Glass Cannons

LOL

[Scelerant]

When your rotation makes that of an arcane mage in WoW look complex, your class/spec needs to be looked at.

[Durzaka]

Someone said that they (Mercs/Commandos) are Glass Cannons

LOL

 

Actually, that idiot said that they shoudl FEEL like glass cannons, not that they do.

[Kromzor]

I don't get the QQ... people who spam Tracer missile are either low level, or bad. And the ones who get away with it are the power levelers who exploited Illium for quick, easy, OP PvP gear.

 

It really makes good players, who are only going to double cast it for the quick double stack debuff and then move off to other moves to maximize their damage look bad.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Kromzor

[Lightmgl]

I don't get the QQ... people who spam Tracer missile are either low level, or bad. And the ones who get away with it are the power levelers who exploited Illium for quick, easy, OP PvP gear.

 

It really makes good players, who are only going to double cast it for the quick double stack debuff and then move off to other moves to maximize their damage look bad.

 

Yeah seriously I don't understand all the complaints about tracer missile. The complaint about a Merc should be about what I do all the time which is Tracer > Dart > Tracer > Heatseaker > Railshot where the last 4 moves all hit almost simultaneously. Either that or Tracer > Tracer > Dart > Unload which is also very solid burst if you proc your Unload.

 

Tracer spam is noob. Throwing out anywhere from 8k-14k near instant burst is much cooler.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Lightmgl

[Gwal]

Yeah seriously I don't understand all the complaints about tracer missile. The complaint about a Merc should be about what I do all the time which is Tracer > Dart > Tracer > Heatseaker > Railshot where the last 4 moves all hit almost simultaneously. Either that or Tracer > Tracer > Dart > Unload which is also very solid burst if you proc your Unload.

 

Tracer spam is noob. Throwing out anywhere from 8k-14k near instant burst is much cooler.

 

I hate it when people hit me with that.

 

Fair play to you though sir.

[Lightmgl]

I hate it when people hit me with that.

 

Fair play to you though sir.

 

In all fairness its a bit OP but its the natural instinct of how to play once you get a feel for the Merc. I guess Assassin has the same problem but theirs is on a long CD and Operative can do it pretty frequently too.

 

Its not the hard hit moves they need to remove, its the burst where you can do 50%-80% of someone's health instantly.

[ducksmyth]

I can't believe people saying tracer missile has sustain problems.

 

At any reasonable level of crit if has a great DPHeat while stacking a debuff and buffing the mercs damage resistance. It might be fairer if they had to pay a bit more to do damage, buff themselves and debuff their opponent in one move.

 

To be fair its DPS isn't fantastic, but it doesn't need to be since anyone not a tank gets blown up in seconds by any class thanks to stims and adrenals. BH just deal with tanks better too.

Edited January 9, 2012 by ducksmyth

[Varcan]

If it can be interrupted I'm not worried...

 

It's fun to watch spammers sit there for 4-6secs knowing there at home having no clue why its not working, and they'll probably post on the forums saying they were CC'd to death...

[blackadda]

Yeah seriously I don't understand all the complaints about tracer missile. The complaint about a Merc should be about what I do all the time which is Tracer > Dart > Tracer > Heatseaker > Railshot where the last 4 moves all hit almost simultaneously. Either that or Tracer > Tracer > Dart > Unload which is also very solid burst if you proc your Unload.

 

Tracer spam is noob. Throwing out anywhere from 8k-14k near instant burst is much cooler.

 

Of course you didnt mention that the rotation of Tracer > Dart > Tracer > Heatseaker > Railshot also leaves you with close to 100 heat and if "vent heat" isnt up..the folow up is normal attack>normal attack>normal attack

 

But thats the "other" side of the class which people dont see unless they play one.

 

Id glady trade 2500 dmg/shot from my tracer if its combined with 5 stacks per shot of the buff/debuff and next to 0 heat and no cast timer so it cant be interrupted.

 

I guarantee you without tracer damage, but WITH the buffs it gives being applied more quickly...a BH will kill 3x faster...

 

Tracer Slows our kills down, but is *needed* to set up the buffs/debuffs for our burst damage instants which DO kill.

Edited January 9, 2012 by blackadda

[Laynd]

What's with all the people who've never seen a caster class before?

 

I think the bigger problem is this "caster" class has heavy armor, 2 knock backs, can heal, and destroy people by spamming one button oh and they can do all of this from range. At least it's fun to interrupt grav/tracer and just have 90% of the BH/Trooper population just stare at you since they don't know what other button to press.

[Dashall]

Nobody on even relatively equal footing should be dying to simple Grav Round spam on a regular basis. Its neither efficient or effective so if you're worried about it you should look at your play rather than the ability.

 

It's powerful relative only to a lower level player with limited abilities to use. Yes they can spam a bolstered Grav/Tracer and do a solid amount of damage, but not nearly so much as people with the tools and ability to use the full potential of the class.

[Dashall]

I don't get the QQ... people who spam Tracer missile are either low level, or bad. And the ones who get away with it are the power levelers who exploited Illium for quick, easy, OP PvP gear.

 

It really makes good players, who are only going to double cast it for the quick double stack debuff and then move off to other moves to maximize their damage look bad.

 

Exactly right.

[nbittel]

Yeah seriously I don't understand all the complaints about tracer missile. The complaint about a Merc should be about what I do all the time which is Tracer > Dart > Tracer > Heatseaker > Railshot where the last 4 moves all hit almost simultaneously. Either that or Tracer > Tracer > Dart > Unload which is also very solid burst if you proc your Unload.

 

Tracer spam is noob. Throwing out anywhere from 8k-14k near instant burst is much cooler.

 

I suspect that the people that claim to be hit for 4k Gravs are being hit with this combo and just not noticing that they're being nailed by three different abilities.

 

If I decide, for whatever reason, that I want someone dead my rotation is Grav > Grav > Full Auto > Grav > Demo > HiB. If I've been alive for a while, chances are that I'll have Charged Barrel to 5 stacks and the three Gravs are giving me the full armor debuff. If I get a Curtain of Fire proc then I can throw another Full Auto in there. This rotation gives be the ability to pick one target and burn them down. This is all if I remain completely unmolested, the target stays in range, recieves no heals, no bubbles, and isn't paying attention. All those things happening, they will die, especially so if I get a crit or two. What does this mean for me? It means that after that, I'm out of ammo and am Hammer Shotting for a while unless Recharge is up.

 

It's a nasty rotation but one that removes me as a threat as I'm now OOP. I only use this if I need to really bring someone down or occupy a healer as again, it pretty much removes me as a threat for a while.

 

If you, your healer, and your other team mates are so unaware what's going on, you deserve to die. One heal, one interrupt, one bubble, or one CC and this rotation is broken. If you let me pick my targets and fire at will, I can be a real force on the battlefield.

 

I said this in the last Commando complainer thread, we are a class of extremes. Under perfect circumstances I peak VERY high but under bad ones, I really bottom out.

 

If you let me turret and stay there, cycling my abilities, conserving ammo, and picking targets at will, I promise that I will wreck your entire team and it is no ones fault but you and your team's.

[Gwal]

If it can be interrupted I'm not worried...

 

It's fun to watch spammers sit there for 4-6secs knowing there at home having no clue why its not working, and they'll probably post on the forums saying they were CC'd to death...

 

As a commando this happened to me a couple times (apart from the forum QQ) made a melee alt and now I do it to other people all the time. You can almost see a speech bubble saying "***!" appear above their heads when they are hitting the same button and nothing happens.

By the time they realise they can use that skill again it's too late for them they are dead or another interrupt is about to be dished up.

 

If anyone allows any enemy to stand still and spam dps/heals they deserve to get roasted.

[blackadda]

As a commando this happened to me a couple times (apart from the forum QQ) made a melee alt and now I do it to other people all the time. You can almost see a speech bubble saying "***!" appear above their heads when they are hitting the same button and nothing happens.

By the time they realise they can use that skill again it's too late for them they are dead or another interrupt is about to be dished up.

 

If anyone allows any enemy to stand still and spam dps/heals they deserve to get roasted.

 

Yup, seen the same thing playing my BH... the key part in that is IF you shoot back at a trooper or BH, the interupts screw their DPS.

 

 

Its because the skill tree has basically ALL its buffs and procs to its burst damage based off of 1 interuptible skill, shutting that down, or slowing it turns the tide very quickly.

 

Its a great class for shooting people who arent fighting back, but equally terrible once focused ESPECIALLY by melee.

 

The spec (BH/Troop turret specs = same thing) has multiple weaknesses and no "get out of jail free" power.

 

It kills, or it dies trying. If focused, its always the latter.

 

 

I too tend to agree with others whove posted that, once people catch onto the fact that interrupts and focus fire will shut this class down.. that the "Turret spec" will become the PVE spec.

 

Pyro is a lot better in PVP in more situations, is more mobile, and has better capability to defend an objective.

 

What it lacks as a merc is the burst damage against single targets, but it makes up for that with AOE, Dots and mobility.

Edited January 9, 2012 by blackadda

[Mackuss]

So...you think as a melee, confronting a high nuke glass cannon out in the middle with no LoS is the best idea? No matter what MMO you play, this will get you killed. Stop showing your experience.

 

The fact is that you have to rotate in your higher DPAmmo/DPS abiliites or you will run yourself dry and not have much to show for it. If you spam Grav rounds, you will not get as high success than you would if you used your other abilities. This is no different from any other spec, it just so happens that spamming grav rounds still does enough damage to kill people with low situational awareness, so it seems OP....when in reality they would have done quite a bit more damage to you using more ability variety.

 

Honestly if the graphic and sound effect of getting hit with grav rounds was gone, most people that are complaining probably wouldn't even know what was killing them

 

If you can't stick to a range reliably when you charge out into the open, don't do it. That only works when you can stick to them. Otherwise you should use los defensively and make him pick another target, when he forgets about you/moves on, ambush him when the situation favors you instead. That's how real melee do it. You aren't unstoppable killing machines, you have to worry about your own personal safety.

 

Who's a high nuke glass cannon? Certainly not a BH with shields and heavy armor.

 

So, who?

[nbittel]

Who's a high nuke glass cannon? Certainly not a BH with shields and heavy armor.

 

So, who?

 

I really think you're overestimating just how effective heavy armor is at damage mitigation. I seem to go down pretty quickly when someone wants me dead.

[caveslug]

Just to add what others have said, its not hard to interrupt the cast. And watch half of them stand there like a stone.

 

Coming from a grav spammer main myself, I made a jugg got my interrupt. And 1vs1 lvl 40+ BH and troopers all the time at lvl21. Most of the time, they just stand there, not knowing what to do.

 

I love my trooper and there gear, but the rotation is stupid boring. Only thing keeping me lvling, is that I'm going heals end game.

[Sirolos]

I really think you're overestimating just how effective heavy armor is at damage mitigation. I seem to go down pretty quickly when someone wants me dead.

 

Its random nubs blatantly ignoring Armor pen, like BH/Commando's are the only class in the game that gets it.

 

So let me ask..How much damage do you do when you can bypass 50% of heavy armor for 15 seconds again?

[Tren]

IF (and that's a very large if) Grav Round needs to be nerfed, it needs to be the damage and not the cast time and/or adding a cooldown as has been suggested. As it currently stands with Full-Auto taking up 3 seconds per use both whenever its CD comes up normally and whenever the instant refresh procs, and a GCD for Demo Round, I usually just barely get a 5th stack of Charged Barrel back up in time for the reset of the HIB cd. The timing of the rotation (prioritization, if you prefer) if you aren't just a GR spammer is very good right now and doesn't need to be jacked up by spam jockeys.

[forcbewithyou]

Sooooo I'm just gonna leave this here. It looks like none of you have heard of fake casting...

[Fox_McCloud]

not sure if these moves are intended to be as powerful as they are but it honestly seems to hit too hard for what it is.

 

Its spec'ed for in the 3rd tier of the commando/bh trees, it has a 1.5 second cast with no cool down, a 30m range, as well as reduces a players armor. Problem is that it hits harder than the move that you have to spec for in the 7th tier which has a 15 second cooldown on it.

 

In PvP Grav Round and Tracer Missile can hit reliably on crits for 2500-3000 and can be spammed to hit every 1.5 seconds.

 

It hits harder than a Jedi Knights Master Strike which has a 4m range, applies damage over 3 seconds, and has a 30 second cool down.

 

It wouldnt be so bad if so many BH's and troopers didnt just spam the move but it is the most effective way for them to kill stuff. No other class I'm aware of can use just one move and be as effective.

 

Personally I feel it needs to have a cooldown added, have its damage decreased, move it higher up in the tree, have the ammo/heat cost increased, or something else to bring it in line with other moves in both the BH/Trooper trees and other classes that have cooldowns and dont do as much damage.

 

the purpose of this thread is simply to give the devs a heads up so they can review the moves and see if they were meant to be this powerful and spamable.

 

 

I think you are right, you have identified an overtuned ability and it does need to be looked at.

 

However there are problems with about 80% of the damage skills in this game. A lot of them are out of whack.

 

An operative should not be doing more damage then a marauder for example, the operative has all kinds of great utility including stealth and healing.

 

Certainly Master strike from a straight DPS class with three dps trees, should do more damage then a damage skill of a ranged class.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Fox_McCloud