[Guide] Juggernaut Guide to PVP, PVE, Leveling - Updated for 1.2

[Xtrema]

have you swapped any mods for your full BM at all? or is it stock?

[Morsexy]

have you swapped any mods for your full BM at all? or is it stock?

 

I swapped every single 'mod' as in the specific mod slot, from whatever it was to either the Deft 24, 45 str 34 power mod, or if I could find or buy the Deft 25 48 Str, 37 power mod.

 

As for enhancements previous to the 1.1.4 patch I was using all adept 24 enhancements, after the patch I replaced some of my Adepts with Advanced Initiative 25, which are 37 power 51 accuracy.

 

So I have 3 x Adept 24, 1x adept 25, 2x Initiative 25.

[KoenigNord]

This Guide helped me to understand our Jug-Tank, I am playing Merc DD and always aggroed, now we know how to solve this

[Lokithevicious]

I'm currently running a Rage spec Jug for pvp and I have some questions about your pvp spec. These may have been answered already, but I didn't want to read through 11 pages lol.

 

1. Why no points in Sundering Throw? It seems that this would be great considering half the time this is the start of my rotation AND it reduces armor making the rest of my rotation slightly more effective.

 

2. Unbreakable Rage. It says Ravage is uninterruptable. I used this for a while, but if the target moves say behind me does it still deal all the damage to the target?

 

3. Gravity. How much is this REALLY helping? Chilling Scream and Force Crush?

[VinUnleaded]

Cant wait for Moresexy to update our class thread here after 1.2!!!

[DawgPoundSwag]

Just wanted to say how immensely helpful this thread has been to my Juggie experience. I'm a 38 now, lvl'd using Veng and the tips I got here have been incredibly effective. Thanks again.

[vyhul]

Bro could you pls. tell me how much of Power, Surge, Crit. is enough for

the rage spec? I am about

Pow 460

Sur 200

Crit..dont remember

 

should I now focus on something els?

 

Also could you pls. post a screen shot of your character sheet and list of gear you use? I want to do 99% copy of you ) no, but really

 

thx for the great job.

[Morsexy]

It really just depends on the gear available to you.

 

I have 678 power, I have 5 x Deft mod 25, 1 x Adept 25. I wear pve pieces: Bracers moddable, t3 weapon, crit crafted relic, karaggas palace relic, and Biochem Mastercrafted Expert implant.

 

Nothing is really too relevant now since 1.2 is imminent, but I'll have videos and more info after the patch hits.

[BPWyndon]

Ok, just trying to keep up to date here...

 

I want to do more PvE then PvP and I want to make sure that I have everything going for me.

 

Accuracy = Don't worry about it?

 

Form = Soresu for armor bonus?

 

Stat = Power -> Surge -> STR -> END?

 

I just got to level 50 and surprisingly feel like I know nothing about the actual characteristics of the Jugg. I decided to go Rage and I am doing the super smash spec.

 

But what defensively should I be worrying about?

Shield rating / absorbtion / defense rating / armor?

 

Also. I am super lazy when soloing to switch between mobs to keep aggro and get the full effect of my smash, is it plausible to use Jaesa as a companion to keep mobs close and still have decent survivability?

 

Plus range mobs are annoying me, what is the best way to get them close in? Or do I just have to deal with it and run around killing them one by one?

Edited April 9, 2012 by BPWyndon

[Tattum]

http://www.2shared.com/document/6pb4_yJp/War_Hero_gear_-_STATS_-_Vinnde.html

 

 

This should be the mix of gear for top damage outcome as Rage juggernaut (in pvp)

 

There is also 2nd sheet for vengeance but i`m not really experienced in that talent tree so I dont really know much about it..

 

In belt and wrist slot there can be any orange armor.. I just picked that one as example (the ones I actually use)

 

 

And if you notice I also forgot the 2nd relic ... So you can basicly add up 58 str and 50 endurance (don't remember those 2 numbers off the top of my head) from matrix cube.

 

 

Also to top damage , you should go for crit crafted oranges and stack power augments in them, but thats a must... that sheets show you basicly which mods and ench you are going to need

Edited April 11, 2012 by Tattum

[Morsexy]

I Wanted to alert everyone that I am currently in the process of revamping this thread, and for a little time ( a week? maybe two) some sections will be works in progress.

 

I hope to have something up by Sunday (4-15-2012).

[vyhul]

Most appreciated!!

[Ball_Lightning]

awesome cant wait! thanks for the awesome info.

[Dualhammers]

I am eagerly awaiting it! I have no idea what I am doing as I just started.

[Morsexy]

I am eagerly awaiting it! I have no idea what I am doing as I just started.

 

This guide is still a good reference even not being updated for 1.2. Talent trees and some other things need to be adjusted, but the broad strokes will be fine until I finish my update.

[ChinamanAthena]

Rage PvE (a lot of this applies in PvP)

 

One thing I want to start off with, anything I say here is something that I’ve tested in game, and have a reason or theory behind what I’m saying, and where I can I will lay this out for anyone reading this. That is not to say that something in here will be 100% right or wrong forever, or once we have better tools to analyze DPS in general, and specifically operation DPS, but generally you can take what I say as a loose guideline at the very least.

 

Stat priorities (as of 1.1.4), and Gear selection.

 

1. Power above all else. For example we have the choice between two deft mods.

 

Deft mod 25A = 61 Str, 37 Endurance, 11 power

Deft mod 25 = 48 Str, 30 Endurance, 37 power

 

You can break that down to roughly Deft 25A = 23 power and Deft 25 = 47 power. Now strength does give us crit, but this is so negligible, I think, for all builds not just Rage, that it’s more or less pointless. However rage with auto crit on smash I find it even less valuable.

 

2. We want surge up to around 275-300 where it begins to really steeply level off through diminishing returns. This leads us to several interesting dilemmas:

1. You can’t get Power without Surge on enhancements

2. The only Power enhancement besides Power\Surge is Power\Accuracy

3. Rage is primarily a Yellow hit monster, and I’ve never had a Ravage miss, so accuracy is basically awful (you’ll end up with 4-5% accuracy on gear like implants\ears anyways).

4. With the advent of 1.1.4 our best enhancement is now Power\Accuracy for PvE given the dearth of options, and still Power\Surge for PVP. Our best mod is the aforementioned Deft 25 (24, 23… etc.)

 

Special Note

There is Reflective Enhancement, 18 stam, 39 shield, 27 crit 27 power. I have not done the math if this is our best enhancement ( I've yet to see a level 25 one, but assuming there was an equivalent to our current level 25 power\surge or power\accuracy enhancements, my suspicion is that it would be)

 

Gear

 

Currently I use 4 piece PvP gear re-moded as described above with Adept 24 enhancements as my PvE gear, primarily for the set bonuses, both of which are useful in raids. The Rakata Bonuses are awful in comparison.

 

I also use a Crit Crafted Artifice Relic of the Boundless Ages with an Augment slot, augmented with an Overkill 2, or 28 power augment. Your highest individual spell damage comes from having your matrix relic equipped, however you lose about 12 power for a chance every 4.5 seconds to hit for 300-400 damage, that can crit, with a trinket from Karaggas Palace.

 

For every decision I make on gear, it can summed up with:

Does this gear give me more power? If it doesn’t its very likely not an upgrade.

 

Rotation or Priority List, and Spec

 

You want your spec to look something like this.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cZG0MZG0RrddMdGR.1

 

Rotation

1. Force Crush* - > Charge\Oblit - > Smash - > Scream - > Sunder - > Ravage

*as you cast this you want to strafe so you can charge, you very easily can get this in before the GCD is up if you practice this

 

2. Force Choke - > Charge\Oblit - > Smash - > Scream - > Sunder - > Ravage

 

3. After I’ve done either rotation, and Ravage is coming off CD I’ll do this

Force Crush* - > Charge- > Smash - > Scream - > Ravage - > Sunder - > Choke

 

Typically in any 47 second window (the CD on Choke, or 54 sec for 4 Force Crushes ) you have 2-3 ‘garbage’ globals free. Saber throw, sunder, and vicious slash can all be used here as fillers.

 

Information of Note

 

Currently there is something either bugged, or buggy with our stances or the tooltips. I would have just assumed it was a tooltip error until I saw that the math is consistent across all abilities, and is this way even in Shien Form, but primarily concerns Shii-Cho. Anyone can feel free to replicate these results as I lay them out here.

 

As per Tool Tip

 

1. In “no stance” or Soresu Stance our abilities hit for X according to the tooltip. X = 100% or base.

2. in Shii-Cho with or without 3\3 Single Saber Master (SSM from here on out) yellow = 106%, white 112.8%.

Real Testing in Game

I hit a player 20 times each in the following ways:

1. No Stance, No SSM

2. No Stance, SSM

3. Shii-Cho, No SSM

4. Shii-Cho, SSM

 

Assuming no stance, no ssm as our baseline 100%

 

1. 100% Yellow

2. 99.7% Yellow -- no variation, SSM does nothing when not in stance

3. 104.43% -- This is weird, need a lot more testing done

4. 104.7% -- Same result basically

 

So my conclusion is that something odd is happening, I can’t be sure of what. Unfortunately I didn’t test white hits for 1, and 3, but I did for 2 and 4, and that resulted in a 12%!!! Increase almost as if they coded SSM to = Shien form on white hits.

 

How Buffs Work

 

You want to have a power trinket, and trinkets in SWTOR apply to anything currently done or being done by your character. For instance if you Force Crush and it normally hits for

200, 200, 200, 200, 520.

 

If you use your power trinket after casting Force Crush it would look like this

200, 200, 220*, 220, 600 (*trinket used just before this tick)

 

If you're fighting an elite, or even in PvP, Force Crush on a target then trinketing into Force Choke is a huge amount of burst, especially if coupled with our 4 piece PvP set bonus, which is a flat 10% boost on damage.

 

This means that your power trinket + that boost is then applied to the damage already in progress.

 

This means that you can Force Crush - > Strafe into Charge or Force Push into Charge - > Use your power trinket while in Force Charge flight - > Force Choke - > Smash for an unreal amount of damage in that sequence. Or

Force Crush - > Strafe\Charge - > trinket in air - > Smash - > Scream.

 

Will this work every time? Of course not, other players might push you, or you might have positional lag, or something else. This ability hits hard enough that it has to have some skill to using it or it would be overpowered, as it currently is toeing that line in most situations.

 

 

 

 

The Rage spec as I see it for PVP

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cZG0kZGrRbdbRdGo.1

PvE

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cZG0MZG0RrddMdGR.1

 

The Hybrid Flag running spec with good damage.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZI0r0RZGRRMdbMdG.1

 

Our PVE Tank spec.

You can sub out accuracy when you get there (i.e on your gear) for reduced Force Choke or Crit % in the Rage tree. If you don’t tank operations, and only tank in PVP or Flashpoints, pick up ‘Thrown Gauntlet’ tier 4 Immortal tree.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGcubrouRZhGM.1

 

Conclusion.

 

I’m sure I’ve missed something here or there, or that someone might come along and disagree with me on a point, or some fine point. However, it doesn’t take much effort to discover what game I played before, and to what level (and I don’t mean character level) I played it at. From this all I hope is that you take into consideration anything I’ve said and will see how useful it can be for you.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

I didnt want to try and read through all the pages and would rather get an answer directly for my specific question anyways.

So my question is, im a lvl 47 jugg all tank specced for now, but when i reach 50 im respeccing to DPS, because its the kind of character i feel most comfortable playing as and what i always choose if available in any game. I like having heavy gear and doing lots of dmg. Also obviously since im asking about PVE DPS Jugg, i enjoy doing FP and Operations the most and thats what i spend all my time doing on my lvl 50 characters, if im not doing a FP HM or a Op then im prob leveling another toon. I noticed for your PVE build in the link you have it set for a lvl 32 and have 19 points in immortal and 4 points in vengeance. Really what id like to know is what points i should put in what skill tress for a lvl 50 jugg to be the best DPS he can be. I still like being able to take dmg so i dont want to abandon all skills from immortal tree if possible, so id like to try and stay as balanced as possible but i know ill need to sacrifice alot of the immortal tree to put into vengeance or rage though. So with that being said could you show me a good set up with the skill tree calculator for a DPS Jugg like im mentioning. Or any advice on what i should be trying to do. I understand everything else you explained about mods, enhancements, ect (gear whise) just need some direction with my skill trees.

[mclay]

I didnt want to try and read through all the pages and would rather get an answer directly for my specific question anyways.

So my question is, im a lvl 47 jugg all tank specced for now, but when i reach 50 im respeccing to DPS, because its the kind of character i feel most comfortable playing as and what i always choose if available in any game. I like having heavy gear and doing lots of dmg. Also obviously since im asking about PVE DPS Jugg, i enjoy doing FP and Operations the most and thats what i spend all my time doing on my lvl 50 characters, if im not doing a FP HM or a Op then im prob leveling another toon. I noticed for your PVE build in the link you have it set for a lvl 32 and have 19 points in immortal and 4 points in vengeance. Really what id like to know is what points i should put in what skill tress for a lvl 50 jugg to be the best DPS he can be. I still like being able to take dmg so i dont want to abandon all skills from immortal tree if possible, so id like to try and stay as balanced as possible but i know ill need to sacrifice alot of the immortal tree to put into vengeance or rage though. So with that being said could you show me a good set up with the skill tree calculator for a DPS Jugg like im mentioning. Or any advice on what i should be trying to do. I understand everything else you explained about mods, enhancements, ect (gear whise) just need some direction with my skill trees.

 

In PvE content (ops and fps) if you're taking a lot of damage you're doing it wrong. That's what your tank is for. You only need to be survivable enough to not be destroyed by AoE damage that you should be trying to avoid, picking up the odd non-elite/champion trash to keep it off a healer, and such. The Rage spec for PvE is in the block you quoted (stats, mods, rotation as well), and both it and Vengeance were about equal at the time of this guide's writing, so it's a matter of preference.

 

The guide is currently being updated, but it may be a while yet before the updated version is posted. I'm going to bet there are a few things that got shuffled, but the general feel of the trees is largely the same.

[Morsexy]

I didnt want to try and read through all the pages and would rather get an answer directly for my specific question anyways.

So my question is, im a lvl 47 jugg all tank specced for now, but when i reach 50 im respeccing to DPS, because its the kind of character i feel most comfortable playing as and what i always choose if available in any game. I like having heavy gear and doing lots of dmg. Also obviously since im asking about PVE DPS Jugg, i enjoy doing FP and Operations the most and thats what i spend all my time doing on my lvl 50 characters, if im not doing a FP HM or a Op then im prob leveling another toon. I noticed for your PVE build in the link you have it set for a lvl 32 and have 19 points in immortal and 4 points in vengeance. Really what id like to know is what points i should put in what skill tress for a lvl 50 jugg to be the best DPS he can be. I still like being able to take dmg so i dont want to abandon all skills from immortal tree if possible, so id like to try and stay as balanced as possible but i know ill need to sacrifice alot of the immortal tree to put into vengeance or rage though. So with that being said could you show me a good set up with the skill tree calculator for a DPS Jugg like im mentioning. Or any advice on what i should be trying to do. I understand everything else you explained about mods, enhancements, ect (gear whise) just need some direction with my skill trees.

 

I don't want to come off crass, but when you don't read something, how can you glean anything from it? The guide is cliff notes as it is, if that is too much for you if you truly want to get better at your juggernaut, then are you sure you really do?

 

In other news my update for 1.2 is almost done, been a bit busy with some other stuff and it is almost done.

[GregR]

Awesome sticky props to the maker its helped me heaps with my Jugg. Question however is for general leveling and some PvP say level 30 and above, as rage....what stance is the general one used. Is it Soresu and if so with a shield off hand or power off hand?

 

I have been tinkering myself between stances and atm the way PvP is your rarely last that long anyway, having said that Soresu makes it difficult to get rage to do enough dps, seems that when your low and cooldowns are up you have to run around using assault and sundering assault on cool down.

 

I felt a little more dangerous in pvp 1v1 as Vengenace the big rage spec crits in pvp are only good for grouped, otherwise I find myself trying to build rage all the time.

 

Advise appreciated

[Fasain]

My english is not the best, but can you explain me why don't you take Through Passion instead of Interceptor? In my mind, it increases your survivability (it costs 2 if you have it). Yes you lose mobility, but just chilling scream after Oblite can easily fix it... No?

[Xtrema]

Thanks for the update to 1.2! Can you clarify on mod priorities in 1.2, specifically while grinding for WH, should we replace power/accuracy/expertise enhancements from BM with power/surge from pre-1.2? Or are any power + expertise better now?

[Lacedemon]

@Mors from a gearing perspective, the gloves, implants and ear are the ones to focus on imho. itemisation on the gloves is good from the get go and getting them opens up an extra agument slot while still retaining the 4 set bonus. The implants/ear as you said are great because of the itemisation; in addition cause of thier cost relative to other stuff they provide the highest net gain in pwr/surge of any War Hero gear considering their cost. The War Hero weapon costs almost as much as 2 Implants + Earpeice with the added benefit of not needing to move the mods from your WH weapon into your augmented saber saving you about 120k in the process (obviously your only delaying this cost)

 

Thanks for the update to 1.2! Can you clarify on mod priorities in 1.2, specifically while grinding for WH, should we replace power/accuracy/expertise enhancements from BM with power/surge from pre-1.2? Or are any power + expertise better now?

 

With the now very gentle slope for Expertise's + dmg component (Graph here).

 

And my own testing in 1.2 Its better to for the Pwr/Acc/ Exp enhancements, for now at least until pwr/surge/exp enhancements are more readily available. While you will loose a lot of surge in the short term get as much augmented oranges as you can to retain the 4 set bonus you'll only be able to use 2 augmented oranges at the start (saber + 1 bit of gear) and stick some surge enhancements in them.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Lacedemon

[Pawnisher]

Is the Rage PVP Spec updated for L50? I didn't see you add points in Overpower and Brutality. I am still on the fence with Vicious Slash - what are your thoughts?

[Morsexy]

Awesome sticky props to the maker its helped me heaps with my Jugg. Question however is for general leveling and some PvP say level 30 and above, as rage....what stance is the general one used. Is it Soresu and if so with a shield off hand or power off hand?

 

I have been tinkering myself between stances and atm the way PvP is your rarely last that long anyway, having said that Soresu makes it difficult to get rage to do enough dps, seems that when your low and cooldowns are up you have to run around using assault and sundering assault on cool down.

 

I felt a little more dangerous in pvp 1v1 as Vengenace the big rage spec crits in pvp are only good for grouped, otherwise I find myself trying to build rage all the time.

 

Advise appreciated

 

You will only really notice the power Rage brings once you correctly itemize all your gear ( really only possible now with the Warhero Gear with the expertise changes in 1.2) after hitting level 50. Without the tier 1 and 2 talents in the Vengeance tree you just won't hit that hard, though if you gear your guy with purple armorings and mods in the low level bracket at 35+ you will hit really, really hard.

 

Vengeance has definitely been improved, and I've been pvping this spec the last few days while we raided Explosive content - Veng being a must for Hard modes IMO - and its power does shine through in 1v1 situations and making 100% certain people die with an execute. That said, Rage does not suffer being kited ever, and you have no situations in which a miss from a white attack screws the whole thing up, such as when a new enemy dodges your sunder.

 

My english is not the best, but can you explain me why don't you take Through Passion instead of Interceptor? In my mind, it increases your survivability (it costs 2 if you have it). Yes you lose mobility, but just chilling scream after Oblite can easily fix it... No?

 

Thats no problem! I take it because I find it to be one of the best utility skills we have as Rage. You can use it to easily avoid knockbacks, as speed and a whole of other things now that it roots people. Look at this link

Most of what I find good about Enraged defense is that I can use it stunned, which usually means I have 12\12 rage.

The videos I have in my signature highlight most of what I think makes Rage powerful, and as soon as ranked comes out I'll be releasing more updated videos.

 

Thanks for the update to 1.2! Can you clarify on mod priorities in 1.2, specifically while grinding for WH, should we replace power/accuracy/expertise enhancements from BM with power/surge from pre-1.2? Or are any power + expertise better now?

 

Lacedemon answered this quite well. For now I'm just trying to maximize my expertize first, and then my power. I bought the MH today because I wanted max DPS for Toth and Zorn. If I was just purely PVP'ing, the best items to buy for me would be the Gloves - > Earpiece ( given using a champ piece ) - > Implants\Head and then possibly the belt. While I'm still using the Champ belt, youd be sacrificing 34 power, for 21 Str and 24 expertise, which while I'm not sure is "clearly" worth it, is most likely now worth it given that they reitemized the crit away from the belt (37 crit on the BM Belt)

 

Is the Rage PVP Spec updated for L50? I didn't see you add points in Overpower and Brutality. I am still on the fence with Vicious Slash - what are your thoughts?

 

It is updated. I vicious slash maybe twice a 15 minute match. There is always something more productive you can be doing even if it isn't damage with those globals. That is my 2 cents at least.

[TPRreggie]

Just a note to say to the original poster that although I am still relatively low level (23) following your advice and respeccing Vengeance at this point has turned my Jugg into a completely different experience, very nice, very balanced and I seem to be having no trouble tanking Heroics either as long as I have a good healer.

 

So thank you - huge diffence to my game. Much appreciated.