Aramand Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ok, I have been playing the game since beta and one thing is for sure, PVP is far from balanced... 1) Heavy armor and HIGH DPS should never...EVER be put together. This is highly evident in Troopers and Bounty Hunters. 2) Stealth...I can see stealth having a purpose in game, but it should NEVER be able to be activated while engaged in pvp. A players movement slows down while in pvp, why does this occur and a person can still stealth while engaged in pvp? This makes no sense. 3) Turn on player collision detection. I am tired of players running through me to get a back stab in. Not to mention they stand on top of you and you can't hit them and then need to back up which interupts your ability to use force powers because you are moving. 4) Moving and high DPS. You either make everyone use all their abilities while moving. this needs to be balanced between the classes. 5) sustained damage classes need to have their damage increased because it is too easy to outheal this type of damage. 6) back to back stuns need to be removed because it happens too frequently, or greatly reduce the counter stun ability cooldown. 7) Melee vs Ranged. Touchy subject because melee with poor internet connection is not as effective. Melee able to remove LOS by moving through players. unrealistic and requires no skill, this gives ranged players a disadvantage. There ar emore issues and I am sure they have been brought up...but all this time the game is becoming more and more annoying in pvp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ok, I have been playing the game since beta and one thing is for sure, PVP is far from balanced... 1) Heavy armor and HIGH DPS should never...EVER be put together. This is highly evident in Troopers and Bounty Hunters. 2) Stealth...I can see stealth having a purpose in game, but it should NEVER be able to be activated while engaged in pvp. A players movement slows down while in pvp, why does this occur and a person can still stealth while engaged in pvp? This makes no sense. 3) Turn on player collision detection. I am tired of players running through me to get a back stab in. Not to mention they stand on top of you and you can't hit them and then need to back up which interupts your ability to use force powers because you are moving. 4) Moving and high DPS. You either make everyone use all their abilities while moving. this needs to be balanced between the classes. 5) sustained damage classes need to have their damage increased because it is too easy to outheal this type of damage. 6) back to back stuns need to be removed because it happens too frequently, or greatly reduce the counter stun ability cooldown. 7) Melee vs Ranged. Touchy subject because melee with poor internet connection is not as effective. Melee able to remove LOS by moving through players. unrealistic and requires no skill, this gives ranged players a disadvantage. There ar emore issues and I am sure they have been brought up...but all this time the game is becoming more and more annoying in pvp... 1. Nerf all Heavy Armor cause armor really matters 2. Nerf Vanish abilities cause Scoundrel/ OP are viable sustained DPS out of stealth 3. YES! We HAVE to have this NOW!!! Then I will be able to grief people trying to get to the AH, Spaceship door, or keep a mass of people locked up in corners... fun fun. 4. Exactly! Nerf all classes, so mechanics are identical! 5. They should give every class an entire bar full of interrupts 6. CC in itself is not needed. Remove it ASAP! Cause no one uses them to stop #5 7. Melee need nerfed badly. I can't knock them away from me cause they already used the leap ability, thus having no way to get back. It's madness I tell you! TLDR I WANT MY INSTAGIB I WIN BUTTONS NOW /unsub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxacre Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It is quite obvious that the OP has never played an MMO before... ever. Collision detection? lol good luck with that. Try to petition the devs for it, why don't ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 1. Nerf all Heavy Armor cause armor really matters 2. Nerf Vanish abilities cause Scoundrel/ OP are viable sustained DPS out of stealth 3. YES! We HAVE to have this NOW!!! Then I will be able to grief people trying to get to the AH, Spaceship door, or keep a mass of people locked up in corners... fun fun. 4. Exactly! Nerf all classes, so mechanics are identical! 5. They should give every class an entire bar full of interrupts 6. CC in itself is not needed. Remove it ASAP! Cause no one uses them to stop #5 7. Melee need nerfed badly. I can't knock them away from me cause they already used the leap ability, thus having no way to get back. It's madness I tell you! TLDR I WANT MY INSTAGIB I WIN BUTTONS NOW /unsub +1 Unfortunately its 90% of posts on this forum with OPs thinking they actually have a clue. Ners scissors, they are OP as FCK, rock is fine. Sincerely, paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengaro Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 lol - the balancing is quite good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NilanVoid Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Nerf scissors, they are OP as FCK, rock is fine. Sincerely, paper. Fixed that for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Damn them typos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengaro Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It is quite obvious that the OP has never played an MMO before... ever. Collision detection? lol good luck with that. Try to petition the devs for it, why don't ya? *cough* daoc, or warhammer or gw? Only coz wow couldn't do that it doesn't mean it's not existing lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramand Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 It is quite obvious that the OP has never played an MMO before... ever. Collision detection? lol good luck with that. Try to petition the devs for it, why don't ya? ROFL...Actually very few people have as much MMO experience as I do. I started with text MMO's in the early 90's and with Meridian 59, UO, EQ 1 and then move forward. What you people fail to understand, and most likely are unable to think outside the box, is that PVP is very delicate and that there are a few mechanics that need to be realized for balance to occur. 1) The more defence you have, the less offence you should have. 2) The more you can heal, the less dmage you can deal. 3) the lighter your armor, the more damage you should be able to output. This works out in the following scenarios: 1) A Juggernaught/Guardian/ and BH/trooper equivalents should be able to win 50% of the battles against an SI/Counselor. Skill does come into play, but the amound of damage from a heavy armored individual should drop the health in the appropriate ratio as a light armor wearer attacking a heavy armored individual. This result should result in both classes standing toe to toe and unleashing hell on eachother and at the end, it should be extremely close as to who wins. This is NOT THE CASE. 2) Medium armor classes should not DPS the same as light armor wearers but should out DPS heavy armor weares. Again...the heaviest hitters are operatives and smugglers. 4.5k damage is very hard hitting...I have yet to see an Sith Sorcerer hit for more than half that damage. Now apparently, what I am hearing is that People think it is ok to be a tnk and high DPS...smells like UO to me. If you disagree witht he above logic..well then keep playing your OP'd classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrustyDog Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It is quite obvious that the OP has never played an MMO before... ever. Collision detection? lol good luck with that. Try to petition the devs for it, why don't ya? Because their was never collision detection irl. Front line of shielded heavily armored troops never ever formed a line to protect their archers-MADNESS I TELL YOU! How could anyone be in favor of adding tactics and skill to this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMerc Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 1) The more defence you have, the less offence you should have. 2) The more you can heal, the less dmage you can deal. 3) the lighter your armor, the more damage you should be able to output. What you keep forgetting is that lighter armor classes typically have tricks to keep them afloat (aka stealth) and such. Now I'll agree that tracer spam heavy armor specs are just Durrific but you take heavy armor off a close range oriented Trooper (Tactics) and his only way that helps him stay in a fight longer since he's typically going to be targeted first is gone (can't tell you how many times fellow stealthers won't engage until I have a couple people's attention, not that it isn't smart play to do so either though). And classes that only have 3 dps specs (so no access to off heals or taunts) typically have some great cooldowns and unique debuffs (20% trauma for sentinels/marauders I believe). I'd agree that bubbles/quick incombat heals are a bit much when it comes to sorcs but they're an entire different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theMornox Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ROFL...Actually very few people have as much MMO experience as I do. I started with text MMO's in the early 90's and with Meridian 59, UO, EQ 1 and then move forward. What you people fail to understand, and most likely are unable to think outside the box, is that PVP is very delicate and that there are a few mechanics that need to be realized for balance to occur. 1) The more defence you have, the less offence you should have. 2) The more you can heal, the less dmage you can deal. 3) the lighter your armor, the more damage you should be able to output. This works out in the following scenarios: 1) A Juggernaught/Guardian/ and BH/trooper equivalents should be able to win 50% of the battles against an SI/Counselor. Skill does come into play, but the amound of damage from a heavy armored individual should drop the health in the appropriate ratio as a light armor wearer attacking a heavy armored individual. This result should result in both classes standing toe to toe and unleashing hell on eachother and at the end, it should be extremely close as to who wins. This is NOT THE CASE. 2) Medium armor classes should not DPS the same as light armor wearers but should out DPS heavy armor weares. Again...the heaviest hitters are operatives and smugglers. 4.5k damage is very hard hitting...I have yet to see an Sith Sorcerer hit for more than half that damage. Now apparently, what I am hearing is that People think it is ok to be a tnk and high DPS...smells like UO to me. If you disagree witht he above logic..well then keep playing your OP'd classes i see and agree to your basic idea, however i think youre scratching the surface with a limited view. one little thing is, you are mixing dps with damage spikes/burst. what you mean is that there should be a reasonable correlation between armor type and DPS with the classes. balance is difficult. it is not possible to get it down to such a clear connection. what interferes your idea is, that aside to the dps battle of two players there is a cc battle as well. so basically the one who wins at cc will dps more. in addition to that there usually are more people in a fight resulting in x versus x situations. still every class should be reasonably playable with "balanced" damage output and survival abilities. it is very complex. in discussions we will scratch the surface a little but, but i am quite sure that our mathematical understanding of this problem does not go far enough to find real solutions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramand Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 ok, So I was in a pvp warfront and If this doesn't say it all, nothing will... I just took a 4600+ strike from a Jedi Guardian. I am lvl 48 and he was 50. If this is not unbalanced, I do not know what is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMerc Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ok, So I was in a pvp warfront and If this doesn't say it all, nothing will... I just took a 4600+ strike from a Jedi Guardian. I am lvl 48 and he was 50. If this is not unbalanced, I do not know what is... You're probably forgetting the +10% next attack every time they get slowed, up to 50% extra damage. Stop looking at things in a vacuum already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You're probably forgetting the +10% next attack every time they get slowed, up to 50% extra damage. Stop looking at things in a vacuum already. That+there is HUGE gap between 49 and 50. Bigger actually then between 30 and 49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMerc Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 That+there is HUGE gap between 49 and 50. Bigger actually then between 30 and 49. Yeah, expertise can really inflate things unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramand Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) You're probably forgetting the +10% next attack every time they get slowed, up to 50% extra damage. Stop looking at things in a vacuum already. lol, so the tank with high Armor/shield/HP and high DPS owns the battlefield. That is a nice ability...shouldn't there be something to assist a DPS class to do, lets say 8k damage? Especially since 4600 points damages upwards of approximately 40% of a SI's health? It is about balance afterall...not making any one class OP'd. Edited January 7, 2012 by Aramand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theMornox Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 you are getting irrational. what you are talking is the sweep spec for a jedi guardian (which i play). this means this guardian specced into focus and therefore is not a tank. and the 4,5k is not dps, it is a damage spike which require preparation and some buffs. it is avoidable and while preparating the guardian will do minor dps compared to other players. you obivously dont understand what you are talking about and insist on being angry about your gaming experience. its not about balance, what you are talking about is equipment, level and circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 ok, I have been playing the game since beta and one thing is for sure, PVP is far from balanced... 1) Heavy armor and HIGH DPS should never...EVER be put together. This is highly evident in Troopers and Bounty Hunters. 2) Stealth...I can see stealth having a purpose in game, but it should NEVER be able to be activated while engaged in pvp. A players movement slows down while in pvp, why does this occur and a person can still stealth while engaged in pvp? This makes no sense. 3) Turn on player collision detection. I am tired of players running through me to get a back stab in. Not to mention they stand on top of you and you can't hit them and then need to back up which interupts your ability to use force powers because you are moving. 4) Moving and high DPS. You either make everyone use all their abilities while moving. this needs to be balanced between the classes. 5) sustained damage classes need to have their damage increased because it is too easy to outheal this type of damage. 6) back to back stuns need to be removed because it happens too frequently, or greatly reduce the counter stun ability cooldown. 7) Melee vs Ranged. Touchy subject because melee with poor internet connection is not as effective. Melee able to remove LOS by moving through players. unrealistic and requires no skill, this gives ranged players a disadvantage. There ar emore issues and I am sure they have been brought up...but all this time the game is becoming more and more annoying in pvp... I know what will fix it! Nerfing scoundrels/ops who go through their armor. Them not having a counter should be SUPER GOOD. LOL I love this forum. There is a counter for the problem the op sees, but... PEOPLE WANT THE COUNTER NERFED TOO. Most hilarious forums since WoW. Just as silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donger Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Because their was never collision detection irl. Front line of shielded heavily armored troops never ever formed a line to protect their archers-MADNESS I TELL YOU! How could anyone be in favor of adding tactics and skill to this game? HAHAHA! This is why we don't need that. It causes grief. I know cause I used to do it in older games that had it (ex:NWN, CSS) when I was younger. You gonna like it when someone corners you at the auction house, then goes afk to make a sammich? I can see your point, but the mechanic causes many more problems than it solves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengaro Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 HAHAHA! This is why we don't need that. It causes grief. I know cause I used to do it in older games that had it (ex:NWN, CSS) when I was younger. You gonna like it when someone corners you at the auction house, then goes afk to make a sammich? I can see your point, but the mechanic causes many more problems than it solves. .... /stuck... was pretty hard to figure that out eh? I'd agree that bubbles/quick incombat heals are a bit much when it comes to sorcs but they're an entire different issue. ^^ If you take the shields, you have no chance to counterheal a spike, thanks..... Btw it's normal to have instants as healer as first priority skills to save spike targets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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