mmcsky Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Shadows are amazing dps, therefore very few people play them as tanks , put in contrast guardians who are very good tanks and decent dps. People will usually like to optimize the group by using their resources well, and shadows have a niche on dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atamasama Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 How come everyone is taking the guardian tank over the shadow tank. what makes the guardian so much better? Force Leap. Seriously. That's a gigantic draw and one of the main reasons I'm playing one. Also, I can't stand playing a Shadow. That was my first choice, I so badly wanted to play one, but their abilities just feel all wrong to me. Guardian abilities feel smooth and natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Small edit update, fixed just a few grammatical errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalcoLombardi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I kind of just skimmed through your guide. But I have a small pattern I follow. Note I haven't done any flashpoints/operations. I usually go Saber Throw>Leap>Guardian Slash>Sundering Strike>Bladestorm>Stasis>Force Sweep on the target or something like that. I'm just now getting used to changing targets. And that's the only semi-set thing I got, I try to spam Bladestorm, Guardian Slash, Riposte, Sundering Strike, and Force Sweep as much as possible. I don't know how I feel about Cyclone Slash, can be challenging to aim and doesn't hit too hard. I might start trying it out though Edit: Combat Focus is hit somewhere in there too. And my build is almost full Defense tree, 1 point in the double Focus gain from Sundering Strike and 2 points in Force Sweep, Hilt Strike damage increase. And I got 3 points in Vigilance to increase Force Sweeps damage. This is all based off memory Edited January 16, 2012 by FalcoLombardi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Note I haven't done any flashpoints/operations. Not to be rude, but that kind of means you don't really have much experience to back up your rotation. Maybe try testing yours vs mine at level 50 and coming back and reporting the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Very nice guide, and you confirmed many of my own suspicions after hitting 50 and tanking a few flashpoints. Gotta admit that, while reading your guide, I was constantly thinking that I should've gone with a trooper instead.. keeping aggro on those large AoE packs feels almost impossible at this point, although I'm sure the information from your guide will make things somewhat easier. Cheers, keep up the awesome work - and let's hope BioWare will give our class some love soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalcoLombardi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Not to be rude, but that kind of means you don't really have much experience to back up your rotation. Maybe try testing yours vs mine at level 50 and coming back and reporting the results. I'm level 50. Just saying I haven't done any endgame content yet. Me and my friend have done some Ilum. I'll have to go read it again and try and memorize it first though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Great guide; I'd add that the lack of gap closers don't make our job any easier. More often than not you have to run around like a headless chicken if your Challenging Call happens to be on cooldown. My life is so much easier when the two DPS players are Sentinels... at least the mobs don't go anywhere, they stay right there with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atamasama Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I usually go Saber Throw>Leap>Guardian Slash>Sundering Strike>Bladestorm>Stasis>Force Sweep on the target or something like that. You should definitely put Sundering Strike before Guardian Slash. Guardian Slash will hit harder if you do, since you'll already have a couple of sunder stacks on the enemy. Once I get into melee range, I consider Riposte to be my top priority (I hit it any time the button is lit) and Sundering Strike my second priority (if Riposte isn't lit, but Sundering Strike is, I'll hit that one instead). My other abilities are situational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarheartZero Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Very nice op. Great guide if your pure def tree. I'm rolling with def/vig though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarheartZero Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I can see where you're coming from for sure, the spec needs a lot of work. But I'm choosing to stick it out and hope for the best from Defense. I suppose both will work, but your healers might appreciate not having to play panic mode the whole time ;P healers have no issue on my def/vig, add the 4% endurance, guardian leap doing the same proc on me (20%) every 20sec! And stack that on force leap, which after patch GCD reset after force push! And overhead strike vs 1min gcd on hilt, no focus cost on force sweep! Great Ideas, love the guide, I'll be returning to see all the ideas being swapped. Keep up the great work. I love post like this! Hard to find between all QQ threads! I love guardians! I think cause I feel like Anakin or luke, who both use form V style same as guardians! lol Edited January 16, 2012 by WarheartZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbussing Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 ...and I'm just as whiny as Luke in story mode. Great guide, thanks for all your efforts and explanations, I'm new to tanking and so far really enjoying the play style and the holding aggro headaches, it feels like more problem solving and cooperation is involved than was in WoW which is a huge upside for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atamasama Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I love guardians! I think cause I feel like Anakin or luke, who both use form V style same as guardians! lol Form V is Shien, which isn't very good for tanking, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarheartZero Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Form V is Shien, which isn't very good for tanking, obviously. A crap, sorry. I mixed up. I forgot Form V was developed by users of form III (Soresu). But hey the styles are still similar But hey the moves are still pretty aggressive in-game like Form V. Edited January 16, 2012 by WarheartZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atamasama Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 A crap, sorry. I mixed up. I forgot Form V was developed by users of form III (Soresu). But hey the styles are still similar But hey the moves are still pretty aggressive in-game like Form V. Okay, wasn't sure if that was an error or not, I was going to ask if you had some trick. I love the Focus generation of Shien but you lose too much defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 lol, healers have no issue on my vig, add the 4% endurance, guardian leap doing the same proc on me (20%) every 20sec! And stack that on guardian leap, which after patch GCD reset after force push! And overhead strike vs 1min gcd on hilt, no focus cost on force sweep! Great Ideas, love the guide, I'll be returning to see all the ideas being swapped. Keep up the great work. I love post like this! Hard to find between all QQ threads! I love guardians! I think cause I feel like Anakin or luke, who both use form V style same as guardians! lol Hopefully they will reduce the CD of Hilt Strike soon, and as far as free Force Sweeps go, VERY rarely do I go to Force Sweep and it's not free, thanks to the talent Courage. I can also use it for my Blade Storm, which makes it cost only 1 focus. I'm still a proponent of the Defense spec, as eventually once everything is balanced and the spec has been properly brought into line, it will be the only spec to tank in and I don't want to have to re-learn anything. But until that happens, then to each, his own I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiqui Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You do make a good point, the tier Defense talents right below Guardian Slash are really pathetic, the only really good one is the increase from 1 focus every 6 seconds to every 3 seconds in Soresu Form. Guardian Slash hits harder once the target has all 5 stacks on it, and during a long boss fight, it will add up over time. Guardian Leap is useful for the damage reduction it gives, but it should steal their threat as well, simply reducing the damage taken isn't enough in my opinion. As far as my personal spec goes, I am currently using this, which is 36/5/0. I feel the only debatable talent in it is Force Clap, but 2 seconds can be all it takes to kill a mob that pulls off you near death, and a quick Force Leap could prevent too much havoc from being unleashed. In the end, the passive defensive bonuses you get in Defense are necessary, and you still get good damage increases on some key abilities. Guardian Leap needs to be buffed, and 4% damage reduction on only 2 specific kinds of damage + 5 seconds on one of the worst tanking cooldowns in an MMO to date does not belong near the end of the tree. The only thing I changed was the 2 points from hilt strike and freezing force to accuracy. Accuracy improves threat generation, according to a guide posted on this forum. Idk if it's true or not but figured it would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hilt Strike is bad enough as a 1 min CD, costing 3 focus really hurts the rotation. I personally haven't had a problem with missing or anything, so Accuracy's usefulness would have to be tested, which of course is impossible really without a combat log. /shrugshoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krivilicious Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Thanks, just rolled a Jedi. I appreciate the time you put into this, it made the class much easier to understand where I want to go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leilei Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Force Leap. Seriously. That's a gigantic draw and one of the main reasons I'm playing one. Also, I can't stand playing a Shadow. That was my first choice, I so badly wanted to play one, but their abilities just feel all wrong to me. Guardian abilities feel smooth and natural. Id take force pull over force leap any day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Id take force pull over force leap any day As would I, the amount of ranged mobs in this game is really unfair to us. A way to group them effectively, even if challenging to do, would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Thanks, just rolled a Jedi. I appreciate the time you put into this, it made the class much easier to understand where I want to go with it. Thanks for the support, glad I was able to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craxim Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 1.1 did not bring any significant changes, will be updating the guide for effective uses of Pommel Strike and Opportune Strike soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktankk Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 we need a threat meter so people can do the math and figure out threat per ability period... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinite_Zen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm currently retuning my build which is 31/10/0 and what I am really having problems deciding is whether the 3% extra hit and 6% extra strength I currently get are worth the extra focus costs I have by not taking Solidified Force and only putting 1 point into Courage. Plus the actual benefit of Command. My thought process seems sound. With almost 98% hit right now and with 6% extra strength everything I do hits harder and more often, therefore more threat. But as you pointed out the benefit of the extra hit is still somewhat of an unknown. Without a combat log I can't really get solid proof of how many times I am missing with or without it. When I get to over 100% hit then my attacks will Be even more effective. With Command a 15 sec reduction on the cd of Challenging Call and Force Push seems lackluster. Challenging Call as I see it is another emergency button, and Force Push isn't something I use often enough to think reducing its cd is going to be more beneficial than more strength and accuracy. Although with 1.1 having FP reset Force Leap it does seem more attractive now. I am only doing hard mode FPs right now so I can't speak to what Ops are like. More than likely I am running perhaps a little more focus starved for getting off bigger attacks, but with Hilt Strike having such a long CD I tend to think of it as a snap aggro device more than a regularly used attack. I'm also probably using Strike more often as a fill to keep my force up since I don't have as much reduced focus cost. But for the way I am playing right now it seems adequate. Thanks for the great article and thread I look forward to getting constructive feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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