Omnitheo Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Revan's story in KoTOR, TOR, and TOR: Revan were all written by the same person. Revan is bioware's story, and theirs to do with as they please. what were you expecting Revan to be, a 16 man lvl 50 raid? How ridiculous is that, how could you ever feel powerful in this game, if you have only a fraction of the power of a character from a different game. Revan has been held in stasis for 300 years, being fed off by the emperor. Your characters are not pushovers either. Each one of them goes on to their own glory, and influences the galaxy in their own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windhealer Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Why are 4 PCs from one game, each who shape the entire galaxy through their story-lines, "pathetic," compared to 1 PC from another game, who shaped the entire galaxy through his story-line? Why shouldn't 4 great heroes/villains of the galaxy be able to defeat 1 great hero/villain of the galaxy? It sounds like the OP somehow ignores the entire game of TOR, which elevates your character as a great hero/villain, to adhere to the silly misconception that MMO PCs are somehow "weak" and "pathetic," just because they are PCs in an MMO, instead of a single-player game. You are probably right on that one, in case of ToR that is. But then they should be given canon names, canon choices etc. to fit plotline and that seems like somewhat "most powerful of all" character spamming. Lots of "one of the most" that is one good reason why I prefer single-player games, especially in case of RPG. And always one question arises: do MMORPGs really need any plot at all or they just need a lot of raiding and money draining from the subscribers? what were you expecting Revan to be, a 16 man lvl 50 raid? How ridiculous is that, how could you ever feel powerful in this game, if you have only a fraction of the power of a character from a different game. Of course not! I just expected him not to be a target for mindless bashing at all! That is all. You always have to play the most powerful character to enjoy the game, is that it? I don't understand, really. This strange "most powerful character spamming" once again. You can't just jump over your head, even if you pay money for it and MMORPG developers apparently can make the impossible possible, through endless leveling, expansions and justification of your actions at some wiki page. That is why I don't like MMORPGs and their concept. But that is only my opinion, of course. And ToR differs from it in many ways, thanks heaven. At least for now. Though that thing with Revan will bug me for a very long time. I overreacted a bit of course and I will continue to play in the future when I have time, this game worth it. Revan may as well be alive, character don't disappear before death just for fun but, in any case, he shouldn't have just appeared in ToR to make KotOR 3 appearance more than justified. And KotOR 3 would serve as an excellent early prequel for ToR, with no Revan bashing in MMORPG, and no appearance of him in ToR at all (probably), that is what I think. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnitheo Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I do still have hope for Revan being alive. Especially given the changes the made to his encounter from the Beta. I'm sure he will still have some relevance to the story. Honestly, I want him to meet Satele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastadrian Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) When i heard about this i was ...dissapointed , yeah that's the word .Dissapointed in everything post-KOTOR . I'm a fan of Revan , he's the most charismatic character in the star wars universe in my opinion (and believe me , i know everything about star wars , from the Celestials and the Tython's war to Legacy passing by FOTJ and such) . Why ? He's at first a hero of the mando wars , he felled to the darkside , betrayed the emperor and decided to confront him after taking over the Republic (which was too weak to fight against the true sith) , got his memory wiped , return as a Prodigal Jedi , saves the Republic by destroying the StarForge and killing Malak .Not to mention he killed countless ennemies going from Mandalore the Ultimate to Malak . Well it's said a lot of times that Revan was the most powerful user of his time (the Emperor is "different" , i'm sure you guys know what i mean) . In my opinion Revan's a Unifying Force-user , there is no dark or light side in the force , it is a whole and it's "utilisation" only depends on the user .He's not as stupid as a jedi , like Bindo he understand love and what it can bring , joy , anger , "happyness" Not only he was a charismatic leader and a legendary fighter but also a philosopher .He's the Luke Skywalker of this time . He went in solo to fight the true sith , that's where it begins to be "dissapointing" , i was expecting something else then what we got .I expected him to killed "armies" of sith , destroying ships etc etc With the Exile and his droids on his side of course (HK47 , he would of be happy to terminate those sith meatbags ) . I won't speak too much about the book (damn retcons on KOTOR2 , never existed for me , the Exile kicked the *** of 3 of the greatest sith of all times , one eating worlds , the other beeing "immortal" and the last wanting the death of the force , btw KOTOR2 is about neutrality , the meaning of relations , the deep nature of the force , the horrors we can do with it ..) Now let's go on the game . First thing i LOVE this game , i'm happy with it , for me it's like a KOTOR3 . But Revan oh god what did they do to you? They messed up , Bioware messed up and i ove them huh , but i'm not blind to errors , most of the time i get along with it but not this time. Do you remember Revan as a "weak" character ? Do you remember Revan as a MADMAN ? Do you remember Revan as a Darksider? I understand that Bioware wanted to "focus" on our character making him feel truly unique , i loved it but not on the detriment of the main character of this era . C'mon Revan should of have a HUGE role in the game as a supporting character in the scenario or not having a role at all , diying at the Emperor's hand in the book after an epic fight where he killed HUNDREDS of ennemy and beat the sh*t out of the Emperor and getting killed after the Emperor used a "deathbomb" (like Kaan used in Dark Bane) on him and he countered it only to get out-bumbered by the Sith , now that would of be epic (i know it seems alot like a TFU-scene but hey Revan suppose to be ONE OF THE GREATEST FORCE USER OFF ALL TIME IN BOTH SIDES OF THE FORCE!) But they prefered , to take Revan put him as a useless boss who have genocide ideas and gets killed by 4 random guys (and if you say that they are suppose to be the best , i agree but i don't remember that Luke was the best when he was in the middle of his training , si? ) That's what made me mad because i think that they could of done much more . For example , why didn't they came up with the idea that right after you "free" him of his prison , he meet up with the council (meeting his grand-grand-grand-daughter ) inform them of what is truly the Emperor (huge plot twist) , gaining a seat in the council , refuse it (because of his "grey" way of thinking) foes to the command of the republic , get in the army as the supreme commander like in the Mando wars and go fighting the Empire .And for example let's take the JK storyline (SPOILERS ALERT !): Go with us when we confront the Emperor , dies while giving us some time to escape from Dromund Kaas , fighting countless siths lords , getting killed by the SW character . End of SPOILERS... Now does this doesn't sound great for him ? while keeping the importance of your character . No they prefered to make him a madman , "low-level" (why not make him 50 ? isn't he one of the most POWERFUL FORCE USER OF ALL TIME ?! seems logic?!?! ) which destroys the character and it's "importance" in the Star Wars universe . Edited January 7, 2012 by Rastadrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterRevan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Maybe Revan will return to the Empire and lead us, though that's probably a big fat no. I like the idea of two enemies coming together to destroy a great threat to their galaxy. My Xpac prediction: Revan will lead the Republic in to battle ALONGSIDE Malgus and the Empire. The Emperor will flee after seeing an uprising, fearing for his life. The Empire enlists the Republics aid in defeating the Emperor and his madness. Malgus, by vote in the Empire, ake control and assist the players and Revan in defeating the Emperor. Tell me if you like it Sounds good, but I think what would blow things out of the water....Republic players get Revan as a companion...Empire gets the Rebuilt HK-47....cherry on the cake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterRevan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 this is not true, have you even read the revan novel? revan was almost killed by the emperor, saved only be meetra throwing he lightsaber to block the emperors final blow, and revan was never ment to defeat the emperor that is why he never came close to beating him! One thing in that battle made absolutely no sense to me or Drew just either forgot or was like....errr he left it at home. Two words.... Solari Crystals ( in short, the emporer shouldn't have been able to use Revan's saber. ) Don't see how he'd simply take out his most powerful crystal from his saber, going into the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnitheo Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Why is he low level? He's been held in stasis for 300 years being fed off of by the Emperor. He's certainly not at his prime. Just because you defeat him in the encounter, doesn't mean he's dead. As for the Unifying Force, it's abandoned time and time again because of how dangerous it is. It's what allowed Jacen to fall, and it even pushed Luke close to the darkside himself during the Dark Nest Crisis. It's what ultimately led him to abandon it and go back to teaching the Living Force. I'm not saying the Unifying Force is wrong, but i've seen more examples of beings who have let it destroy them, rather than aid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodMars Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Really? Some of you think Revan is gone for good? Seriously? Ok... A lot of raging around here for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastadrian Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Why is he low level? He's been held in stasis for 300 years being fed off of by the Emperor. He's certainly not at his prime. Just because you defeat him in the encounter, doesn't mean he's dead. As for the Unifying Force, it's abandoned time and time again because of how dangerous it is. It's what allowed Jacen to fall, and it even pushed Luke close to the darkside himself during the Dark Nest Crisis. It's what ultimately led him to abandon it and go back to teaching the Living Force. I'm not saying the Unifying Force is wrong, but i've seen more examples of beings who have let it destroy them, rather than aid them. SPOILERS FROM FOTJ/LOTF Errr , Jacen didn't fall because of the Unifying force , he DECIDED to fell because if he didn't Luke would of fall to the Darkside which is far worse (theory made upon his visons were he's see himself fighting Dark Luke) and they are plenty of Unifiying force believers that didn't fall : -Bindo -Katarn err i i can't remember other but they are others ... And even when Revan "fall" to the darkside he did it for a good reason (making the galaxie stronger against the true sith and especially the Emperor , you know why i think) , in TOR he reminds me more of Malak ... I could agree that 300 years of stais could weak him but that seem just like a "bad" excuse to me , he kept fighting the Emperor (with the Exile by it's side and is stong will and love for his family ) logicly it would make his will and grip on the force stronger since he didn't felt to the Emperor power... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastadrian Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Really? Some of you think Revan is gone for good? Seriously? Ok... A lot of raging around here for no reason. Huh they changed the issue with his "9K" left which was a bug... And in the Beta it was intended to let him die there... And still all of this part of this story kinda "ruined" his character , especially his madness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spne Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 He is not dead. Neither is the Emperor in the JK questline. I believe both will return and Revan will be part of new storylines. When you win the battle in WF he still got 9% hp left and he simply dissapears. And no character in SWTOR is "nobody". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastadrian Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 To all who don't know , they "FIXED" the issue with is healthbar , it was a bug... Patch 1.1 : The Foundry Corrected an issue that could cause the final boss to become stuck at 10% health. Why , why , why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Revan never amounted to anything, Anyone who thought otherwise wrote a story in their own mind. While I disapprove of making Revan weak and killing the Exile in order to make the Emperor into an omgbadazz, it's already happened, it's in the lore. So it's pretty pointless to complain about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windhealer Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) I understand that Bioware wanted to "focus" on our character making him feel truly unique , i loved it but not on the detriment of the main character of this era . Rastadrian, I agree with everything you've said especially with this 1 sentence, which basically explains the whole reason of my disappointment. Edited January 7, 2012 by Windhealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterRevan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Revan never amounted to anything, Anyone who thought otherwise wrote a story in their own mind. While I disapprove of making Revan weak and killing the Exile in order to make the Emperor into an omgbadazz, it's already happened, it's in the lore. So it's pretty pointless to complain about it. Believe what you were trying to say is, "I hate that Revan had a way better story than Anakin/Vader, and that so many ppl are drawn to him, and I'm not just because...I can't recognize a baddass when I see him. " I respect vader but truely I think whoever reads the Revan book is gonna quickly jump in the Bioware/Revan fanbus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alavastre Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I haven't played the foundry yet, because I don't have a Sith that level. But, I can say that I don't believe he is dead. Firstly, it would be kind of dumb, in the Republic quest to save him, he was to turn the tide of battle, the end all Jedi Master. On the Sith side, they talk about him, he has his own little cult. They just seemed to put too much importance on him to die as a Flashpoint boss. It just ended, he doesn't have parting words. Just doesn't make sense, so Revan IMHO isn't dead. Also, as for the low level Sith killing him, when I freed Revan on the Republic side, he remarked on how powerful we were, and we might have killed the emperor if I had been there with him on that day. So, the whole lore of the force wielders is that you are very special and very strong in the force, even if you are only level 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnitheo Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 There is no death, there is only the force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastadrian Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I haven't played the foundry yet, because I don't have a Sith that level. But, I can say that I don't believe he is dead. Firstly, it would be kind of dumb, in the Republic quest to save him, he was to turn the tide of battle, the end all Jedi Master. On the Sith side, they talk about him, he has his own little cult. They just seemed to put too much importance on him to die as a Flashpoint boss. It just ended, he doesn't have parting words. Just doesn't make sense, so Revan IMHO isn't dead. Also, as for the low level Sith killing him, when I freed Revan on the Republic side, he remarked on how powerful we were, and we might have killed the emperor if I had been there with him on that day. So, the whole lore of the force wielders is that you are very special and very strong in the force, even if you are only level 35. Of course , he's not going to say that you suck balls duh . He sense that something great is ahead of us . And when he says that the day he fought the Emperor would of been different it's because , the Emperor was distracted just before making the final strike on Revan and had is guard down , if another "powerful" jedi was with them , well his fate would of been sealed ... And Revan is not suppose to be strong or powerful he is suppose to be : "The heart of the Force" , Canon nuff said . While the Exile is suppose to be : "The death of the Force" We don't speak on the same level of power here , it's like comparing a porsche with a F1 , sure the porsche is strong but the F1 beat the crap out of it . They are not playing in the same league , same goes for Revan and the Exile , it would of made much more sense if Revan were 50.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natherillen Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'll give many major soilers. About Revan, the Emperor and the Sith Inquisitor. Revan has been in a conflict with the Emperor for 300 years. Let's not be a fanboy. Your thoughts about him is just like he is a god. But the truth is, you are thinking straightforward. He might be a powerful figure but "the Emperor" (who forced countless Sith Lords into submission and drained their souls, drained and corrupted a planet by himself and his very being was tied to the Dark Side from his birth, tricked the death itself for a thousand years) put him through into an unending torture. There is no doubt he was wounded by the Emperor's attacks into his mind. When you read the dialogue with Revan, you can clearly see he has already gone mad and think just like the ones he has opposed and not aware of that. It is clear his mind was decimated by the Emperor. In the other hand the both sides were weakened. The difference is that the Emperor is the master of the force spells. In the other hand, the characters in game are really powerful. For an instance, the Sith Inquisitor has been a Dark Council member just after he gone through the attack against Revan. His power is coming from Tulak Hord and Lord Kallig. There is many Jedi and Sith souls bound to him. His major plot is to be the Emperor. He took many major force users down, including the Jedi grand masters and great Sith lords. There is no doubt he isn't weak as you think so. He might not be just as powerful as he is at the end but he was not alone. There were three more people besieged his lair, which are just as powerful as the others and they took Revan down. Revan was powerful, but there is others that are more powerful than a madman. I've player KotOR series for many times, I really like the story but it doesn't mean that I'll be ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMagus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) If it was as petty a reason as that then my opinion of BioWare and Drew Karpyshyn would be seriously diminished, but i don't believe it is that, i think the truth of the matter is that they really didn't bother learning about the Exile, what she was, who she was and what had actually taken place in regards to her throughout KotOR 2. She managed feats even more impressive then Revan's (saved the galaxy and all life in it multiple times, Rebuilt the infrastructure of the Republic and rebuilt the entire Jedi Order.) and was made a Jedi Master (Or an equivalent rank) half way through the story, yet Drew insists she was of Jedi Knight rank and that Revan was of Master rank, even though he was only just promoted to Jedi Knight at the end of their own game, much of what they state in 'Revan' and TOR is contradictory to what the canon tells us. I just think they wanted to put Revan on an even higher pedestal than he already was just to make Vitiate seem even stronger and more powerful making him the main villain of the whole setting in the series. They don't really care about her because each Star Wars game and novel is free to make up it's own characters that other novels and games don't have to respect one bit or they can respect some of it, all of it, or whatever works for them. Example: Timothy Zahn wrote about Admiral Thrawn and the Clone Wars and things that survived from it was a major part of his novels. Guess what happened? Lucus decided that Nah, the clone wars was nothing like what was described in the Thrawn Trilogy and all future novels completely ignored TZ's stuff about the clone wars... however they kept the love interest from the novels so Luke wasn't running around a sexually frustrated virgin who could chuck star destroyers around with his power. Bioware was under no requirement to respect anything from KOTOR I or II, the fact that they made KOTOR I however and TOR was inspired by it pretty much made sure they were going to follow the lore from it and respect it. However, following KOTOR 2's lore and characters and including them in TOR was not something they had to do anymore then they had to respect so random guys fanfic posted on a blog somewhere. And if somebody else eventually release a game that predates TOR in the timeline I doubt they'll follow anything from that game either. The ONLY lore that games have to follow and respect in order to get an official Star Wars tag iare the movies, and whatever Lucus says they must. Other then that they are free to trample all over each others stories and often times do. That said I can't stand Revan and have started calling him Revan Norris because of how over the top he's been portrayed in the story line at this point. Revan's tears can cure cancer, saddly Revan has never cried. They once named a street after Revan on Typhon, but anybody who went from one side to the other died horribly. This just proves that nobody crosses Revan and Survives. Revan doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the galaxy down. Edited January 8, 2012 by StarMagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riazakk Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 this is not true, have you even read the revan novel? revan was almost killed by the emperor, saved only be meetra throwing he lightsaber to block the emperors final blow, and revan was never ment to defeat the emperor that is why he never came close to beating him! Correction to my earlier post about him almost killing the emperor, all i meant to say of this is that he, meetra, and scourge stood a decent chance had scourge not *mutter mutter mutter* Wasn't meant to come off as him singlehandedly kicking the emperors ***, it was more of a comment saying that he carried his team in that particular fight, and that his team had a good chance of pulling off their assassination attempt. And as for this crap about him not being meant to kill the emporer... If your basing this off of scourge's vision... He saw MANY outcomes, and picked the one that seemed the most foolproof (aka let the ??? JK handle it.) Destiny never had anything to do with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilestel Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) I am tired of Revan to be honest. KOTOR is one of my favorite games of all time, but every story must end. Including Revans. SWTOR is about my Jedi Shadow, not Revan.EDIT: And this thread should probably be in the spoilers section. Edited January 8, 2012 by Gilestel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corebit Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Play the Republic storyline, where the Revan ending is completely different, and I might say, is the canon ending. Why do I say Republic one is the canon ending? Because Drew Karpishyn still has plans for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Play the Republic storyline, where the Revan ending is completely different, and I might say, is the canon ending. Why do I say Republic one is the canon ending? Because Drew Karpishyn still has plans for him. What are you on about? The republic flashpoint takes place and then the Empire's, both are canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windhealer Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) The KotOR and Revan fans have been given far more than the KotOR II and Exile fans will ever get, Revan still has his ending to come as far as we know, You should be thankful for what BioWare and Drew has given you, we (Exile fans) just got a giant middle finger to our face and BYE! you got an entire novel and TWO flashpoints for Revan. I'm KotOR 2 fan and Kreia is my favourite Star Wars character. And I hope, if there ever will be KotOR 3, it will have the depth and atmosphere like this game had. Maybe not the same one, but I mean the quality of it. Put my hopes on Obsidian for this one. As for 2 Revan flashpoints and no Exile in this game - good, no Exile bashing alongside Revan. Whatever fate Exile was meant to have, I think it is still better than being raided in ToR. Edited January 8, 2012 by Windhealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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