Any other PT's feel...gimped in PvP?

[obZeNx]

Alright, I say this because as a lv 36 PT so far, I feel like I have to do 10x more **** than any of the other classes and my main damage is actually melee (Rocket Punch/Flame Burst/Flame Thrower) since I'm the Defense spec (since it's not fun having to heal up after every fight in PvE as any of the other specs).

 

So far I have NO knockbacks what-so-ever, when it seems like every other god damn class has them and they work so well in PvP **** like Huttball and the bridge in the other WZ. Yet our 15 second cooldown Explosive Dart doesn't even knockback the target that it is even used on in PvP when I believe other classes have AoE knockback?

 

I dueled this lv 35 Corcusant yesterday, and I was 36 (I have orange helm/chest/glove/boot/belt/gun) and ALL he did the entire fight was use the insta-cast nuke, and Telekinetic Throw or whatever that 3 second channel ability is called which has like a 6 sec cd I believe. He beat me with 10% HP left and he literally only casted 2 spells the entire time. Me, on the other hand? I have to hit a bunch of **** (see below for rotation).

 

If that's not the case, then people who are near my level can just sit there and HEAL THEMSELVES the entire time (even when I interrupt every time it's up) and through my damage I can't bring them down.

 

I believe I have a pretty damn good rotation (it may even be optimal for me, as it seems like the way I do it does pretty good damage for me at least) here it is:

Unload (15s cd), Explosive Dart (15s cd), Rail Shot (15s cd), Rocket Punch (9s cd, +50% chance every 4.5s to reset if shielding attack, 4m range), Flame Burst (no cd, 10m range). I continue to go through this and obviously using Rocket Punch every time it comes off of CD, and using Electro Dart/Quell/Jet Charge/Grapple to interrupt heals etc.

 

Missile Blast seems completely useless since it doesn't knockback (not asking it to, would be OP if it did everytime) and costs 25(!) heat.

 

Flame Thrower is almost completely useless because no one sits in 1 spot, they run around you and strafe and it's impossible to get a full channel off hitting them.

 

Upon choosing a BH, I thought my main damage dealing would be dealt with at range. Rocket Punch is by far our best damage-dealing ability which has a grand range of 4 meters. Everything else has a 15 second cooldown with the exception of Flame Burst, which has 10. Why do I even have a gun if Flame Thrower + Rocket Punch is pretty much the only effective damage-dealing abilities to use in PvP since I don't get to knockback anyone even with Explosive Dart (only asking to at least knockdown the target that it is used on, not AoE like in PvE).

 

I see mercs in PvP and they absolutely annihilate and they can heal themselves. Commando's *********** **** face also.

 

Am I the only one? I don't care about how you ***** someone 10 levels below you in PvP, I want to see how well you do against targets who are around your current level.

 

The most effective strategy I've found for dealing with melee opponents? Run around and spam your auto-attack while using Rocket Punch/Flame Burst/Explosive Dart the entire time because you can't stand toe to toe with them since you're some weird Ranged/Melee hybrid class that isn't good at either Ranged or Melee.

[Rykke]

L2P Issue, I don't know what advice I can give you but I can tell you the Powertech is in no way lacking in PvP viability. Even as a level 30s in green I never felt lacking in damage as a Shield Tech. Damage isn't the main point of going ST in the first place, it's about control. More so compared to our Arsenal brethens, the ST demands a good sense of when to pull out which CDs and how to proceed with the fights. Playing a ST feels more like playing a fighting game.

 

In actual PvP WZs, you are given some of best positioning tools for any class and it's not just enough to just use them to close gaps. there are so many tricks you can do with grapple alone that will net in some quick kills. Utilizing the map to the best of your advantage is also key as Jet Charge offers great freedom on the z-axis. If you stop going for just kills and try to work with people on your team as a squad. Between your taunts, guard, and hard ccs, it's easy to turn the tide in your favor without even having to pull out big damage.

 

Duels also are not a good place to draw examples from for balanced, they are never balanced.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Rykke

[obZeNx]

Knew someone would say L2P issue. Been playing MMOs for ages and you obviously didn't read the thread, also am Masters in SC2. Not a L2P issue you can try reading my actual thread instead of making baseless assumptions. Show me good damage on targets around your level, not level 15's when you're 40 in WZs.

[SuperDeluxeTNT]

Seems like a L2P issue to me too (it s not a baseless assumption since you re only using the interrupt skill to prevent a healer from healing). I'm a ST/PT using the hybrid 21/2/18 build.

 

Do I need a knockback? Not at all, why would I want people to go away from me since, most of my skills are close range? Jetcharge and Grapple are fabulous tools in addition to the snare effect to keep people near me, no one can escape me. And i don't want to escape my ennemies since i need them to hit me to make my shield proc so i get more rocket punch, and if I get more RPs i will have more armor penetrating railshots too.

 

I can beat anyone on a 1v1 except for some good geared marauders and some good BHs using railshot to overcome my mitigation. Even if my DPS and burst are not that good, I can kill healers using the interrupt, carbonite, grapple, jetcharge and the electronic dart to prevent them from healing. I have been good at 1v1 before hitting 50 and i'm still good at 50.

 

And talking about DPS I have no problems being in the top 3 damage dealers on every WZs (and I'm a tank). Sure a Merc spamming tracer missiles will outdps me by a lot, but i'm not a DPSer so no problem here. I don't have a good burst, but hey, i'm already a tank, doing plenty of aoe damage, i can't have it all

 

Powertechs are not gimped at all. This is the first game i play since Daoc that allows me to play a tank that have a great survibality, that can perma lock an opponent, deal enough damage to get the damage medals and still fullfill his role as a meatshield with the guard system, while still being extremely mobile and a good ball carrier for example. I can play defensively, support someone else and also play offensively, applying some good pressure on the opposite team.

 

 

See, people are whining at sorcerers and agents being OP, and still my nemesis is a good marauder or BH...

 

Ps: In your original post you said you were using Quell to interrupt everytime it was up, now you just edited your post to say you were using all the interrupts technics we have...

Seems like you are trying to hide the L2P issue by editing your post...

Btw, look at the powertech class forum, did you ever see someone complaining at the powertechs being gimped? No, I think your the first one...

 

Ps: Please forgive my english speaking abilities

Edited January 7, 2012 by SuperDeluxeTNT

[Rykke]

I did read your thread, and if you were doing everything like you said you were correctly then you should be doing just fine. PvP for PT isn't about a set rotation at all and if you were a Masters in SC2 then you should be smart enough to figure that out. Also you would know that duels are a terrible way to collect information on balance. Death From Above ticks for 800-1k alone when bolstered up and you still struggle?

 

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6810/screenshot2011123111082.jpg

 

PTs are fine, still a L2P Issue, moving along now.

[Juicenewtonz]

Powertechs are pretty beastly at level 50, you have a charge AND a pull (hence why you dont have a knockback) and you also have one of the best aoe CCs in the game with carbonize.

 

Not only that but you are also a pain in the *** to kill and still deal decent damage whether in melee or at range guard also lets you keep high priority teammates alive.

[Shocklate]

No slows, No cc, grapple works some of the time, stuns work some of the time, and why in the name of SWTOR creators did they make Shoulder slam suck so much *** in the game period. Between pvp and Elites and up for PvE i feel kinda skimped out on the amount of abilities that actually have effect.

 

 

Note: Shoulder Slam is useless in nearly every form of TOR

Edit: also. kinda tired of getting out threated by a jawa

Edited January 7, 2012 by Shocklate

[Rykke]

No slows, No cc, grapple works some of the time, stuns work some of the time, and why in the name of SWTOR creators did they make Shoulder slam suck so much *** in the game period. Between pvp and Elites and up for PvE i feel kinda skimped out on the amount of abilities that actually have effect.

 

 

Note: Shoulder Slam is useless in nearly every form of TOR

 

Shieldtech and Pyro both have talents that give you slows. No CC's? What is Electro Dart, and Carbonize? Grapple and Stealth Scan can be talented for immobilize, how did you arrive with the no CC point? CC's not working? Turn on your Nameplates and resolve bar and never waste your CC's again. As if taunts couldn't get any better, you also have access to a range AoE taunt. All the above abilities are extremely powerful in pvp. Shoulder Slam is terrible I'll give you that. Other than that, Powertech abilities have crazy synergy with each other and you should really take a second look at what the abilities do.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Rykke

[Shocklate]

Shieldtech and Pyro both have talents that give you slows. No CC's? What is Electro Dart, and Carbonize? Grapple and Stealth Scan can be talented for immobilize, how did you arrive with the no CC point? CC's not working? Turn on your Nameplates and resolve bar and never waste your CC's again. As if taunts couldn't get any better, you also have access to a range AoE taunt. All the above abilities are extremely powerful in pvp. Shoulder Slam is terrible I'll give you that. Other than that, Powertech abilities have crazy synergy with each other and you should really take a second look at what the abilities do.

 

You fail to understand the difference between CCs and stuns, im not looking for a 3 second stun. In pvp if someone is stunned while you grapple they go nowhere giving you a nice 45 second cd for no reason, and during hutt ball that cant be allowed to happen. You've never noticed that all of you tank companions out threat you. taunts are not suppose to be a manor of keeping threat there just suppose to grab it, like if you grapple an enemy off the healer you need high threat generation on the move because if you don't have it it would just return to the healer... i feel like the tanking aspect of PT BH is just left in the dust compared to other classes we have no other high threat generating moves besides grapple and i find my self loosing aggro on a multitude of enemies while im blasting my flame thrower to the masses. and by that i mean if i stop hammering the focused target for even a second i loose all threat and am forced to taunt.

 

Edit: a good example of less threat gen would be me lvl 50 ptbh in good gear helping a sith assassin lvl 47 in greens: he could hold all the aggro to a 6 man group while i am fighting to hold on to one if not the rest. that **** shouldnt happen idc what you think

 

oh and i forgot i put my gaurd on him btw still out threated me

Edited January 7, 2012 by Shocklate

[SuperDeluxeTNT]

Too bad, people don't realize that the AOE taunt is a powerful tool in PvP, not mentionning it helps you obtain the protection medals...

 

But, hey, some people are still using their CCs against targets immunised to them because of the resolve system...

 

Hum btw, what are you talking about with your "6 man group"? Why are you using a threat generating companion when you already are a tank generating some? Are we discussing PvP here about BHs or PvE (and obviously BH is EZ mode in solo PVE)? So why bother mentioning the Jawa? Ever used the guard on that Sith friend of yours???

 

I tanked all the operations up to the lvl 50 ones as a ST BH, and never had a problem with aggro. I just have to switch the guard to whoever seems or should be generating aggro, be it a healer or DPS. It's easy to use your AOE taunt first, and use the single taunt and grapple to manage mobs that are not in the AOE taunt radius,then and only then, start using DPS skills to make them stay near you and on you...

 

Seriously by reading those kind of threads, I think people want their class to be the best at everything without making any efforts...

Edited January 7, 2012 by SuperDeluxeTNT

[Shocklate]

im talking about slows, stuns, and cc movement effecting abilities not damage reduction ones. dont worry in pvp im using it just as much as the next guy. i just would like to be able to stop a guy from crossing the goal zone a bit better.

 

Edit: you guys need to get off your high horses and admit that our class has flaws. there's more that i care to count.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Shocklate

[SuperDeluxeTNT]

Yeah the class has flaws, but every class has some... For example we could discuss level 50 PVP gear stats choices from BW...

 

But right now, we were discussing about PTs being gimped or not in PVP, right?

Why putting the threat subject on the table then?

 

If your PVP performances are subpar, it could come from a bad build, a L2P issue, bad gear choices or because you re using a fixed skill rotation when none should be used, but afaik it doesn't come from the class itself...

 

And there's a trick to insta-kill any ball carrier coming to the goal line with your grapple, ok I must admit it's a really dirty trick, but hey it's a HuttBall, dirty tricks are allowed

Edited January 7, 2012 by SuperDeluxeTNT

[Rykke]

im talking about slows, stuns, and cc movement effecting abilities not damage reduction ones. dont worry in pvp im using it just as much as the next guy. i just would like to be able to stop a guy from crossing the goal zone a bit better.

 

Edit: you guys need to get off your high horses and admit that our class has flaws. there's more that i care to count.

 

You're just trolling at this point.

[Shocklate]

I'm mentioning things of other realms of problems to show you the how big the horizon of flaws there is with ptbh. Its L2P when you start playing a tank at lvl 40 and expect to be good in 10 lvls ive got two wonderful tanks on wow druid and dk so i know how to play my tanks (until blood dks were ruined by patches) and ive noticed these problems the entire time ive been lvling my stbh since 10, i was just hoping that things would pan out for the better by 50. and i used a tank companion to see if i could hold threat against it.

 

im not trying to say my skill tree build is the best (32/8/1). it just shouldnt have to be to be able to do decent tanking in pvp and pve. my armor and rotations are fine its just the abilities (even in description are lacking when i compare them with other class's tank specs

 

Edit: btw i wouldnt mind knowing the instakill if you could share it. i already devised grappling people into the flames.

 

 

is it trolling to say that there are problems in a new game Rykke. i was talking about hutt ball specifically

Edited January 7, 2012 by Shocklate

[Rykke]

It is trolling when the class you're playing is very well equipped to handle your proposed issues. I don't get it, are we playing two completely different classes? Juggernauts may have the best defensive cool downs, but they have piss poor AoE threat management in comparison to us. If you feel lacking in the threat department for AoE pulls, try a Juggernaut and then come back. General consensus out there right now is that the BH/Trooper archetype have some of the most solid ACs at this point of the game and that conclusion is very true.

 

If anything you're the one that has a wrong ideal of what CC really means. Crowd Control means to negatively impact/limit or "CONTROL" another person. Snares, stuns, blinds, knockdowns, silences, etc etc are all different flavors of CC. Why are you still arguing this point?

 

If you're smoking some dank gan, lemme have at it, my friends who rolled Juggernauts are all jealous of what I'm capable of in PvE and PvP.

[Shocklate]

If you think that shoulder slam is the only problem that BH have in pvp or pve than go ahead and keep playing the class like you are. saying l2p doesnt help anyone besides your ego, and even then it makes you look like a douchebag. ive lvled the class and seen problems talked to every powertech ive seen on server, and the all agree with what i point out. ive adapted to plenty of suggestions ive seen on the forums and still am concerned on the same issues. your not helping anyone when you post so why bother Rek

 

atleast this other guy isnt bound and determined to gloat his head off

Edited January 7, 2012 by Shocklate

[Slizzik]

re-roll

[Rykke]

Because someone on the internet is wrong.

[obZeNx]

I have yet to see a PT do decent damage against any one else who is of their level.

 

I always get top 3ish damage on WZs (was #1 a few times) but it's just because I'm not retarded and just continually attack people the entire time and defend points etc. But if someone wants to, they can heal through my damage easily if they are near my level. I obviously rip apart anyone below level 30, and I think many of you need to realize that you're not actually as good as you think you are and just wait and see in the lv 50 only WZs when you're gimp against players of your own level.

[Shocklate]

try doing something for the rest of us BHST a favor and tell us your godly build so i can move off this post Edited January 7, 2012 by Shocklate

[Candykissesxoxo]

You're doing it wrong. BHST is not designed to top meters or mash through people dumb@***. You're a tank, if you wanted to mow through people you need to respec or reroll. You're a meatshield..your job is to outlast and protect others. Learn to peel for the damage dealers and healers. At 50 BHST are EXTREMELY hard to kill if done right.

 

I think some people still think they're playing other games where tanks can outdamage the damage dealers in some cases and that's retardedly unbalanced imo. You can't have everything, sorry. In this game you actually will get rewarded for guarding and tanking in pvp wich is a welcome change. Be the tank or **** and start over.

[chainsawsamurai]

The class certainly has issues:

 

Would I like Jet Charge baseline and Grapple in the Shieldtech tree? You betcha.

 

Would I like a baseline snare rather than having to spec into a mediocre 2s snare on my cylinder procs? Hell yes.

 

Would I like a bit better defenses (either cooldowns or baseline) as a DPS spec? Yeah, I'd like a slice of what the Marauders are having.

 

 

 

Yeah we could use some tweaks, but if you can't take the tools we're given and do well it is a PEBKAC issue not a class issue.

[Candykissesxoxo]

i feel like the tanking aspect of PT BH is just left in the dust compared to other classes we have no other high threat generating moves besides grapple and i find my self loosing aggro on a multitude of enemies while im blasting my flame thrower to the masses. and by that i mean if i stop hammering the focused target for even a second i loose all threat and am forced to taunt.

 

Edit: a good example of less threat gen would be me lvl 50 ptbh in good gear helping a sith assassin lvl 47 in greens: he could hold all the aggro to a 6 man group while i am fighting to hold on to one if not the rest. that **** shouldnt happen idc what you think

 

oh and i forgot i put my gaurd on him btw still out threated me

 

Try telling whomever you are with to wait a few seconds more before going ape$hit on a target. This isn't wow and you're not on your druid/dk Things just aren't going to be handed to you as a tank as easily as it used to be. Mark your targets and tell your group to hold back until you build up decent threat and follow a kill order.

 

You're not going to just run in grab snap aggro on everything instantly. I think your problem is you're comparing SWTOR tanking to other games. I remember back in the day in vanilla wow where noone was allowed to touch anything until at least x2 sunders were on first target.

 

People are just used to easy mode tanking now a days.

[obZeNx]

I'm not any more tanky than anyone else. I only have about 1k more hp which is not even 10% more when everyone has ~12-13k, and they are in normal DPS gear. I'm running full endurance/defense gear and everyone else is able to do more damage than me and have just about the same survivability as me.

 

I'm not asking to do super good damage, maybe you should try taking your high school attitude out of here and actually have some reading comprehension. We don't have a reliable damage output ability, and I see in WZs ALL the time, for a perfect 2 examples, Commando's SPAM Grav Round OVER AND OVER and do *********** amazing damage, then go around and heal everyone else. Should they be able to heal other people and do amazing damage also? What do you think? IF they can do amazing damage and heal, why can't I do decend damage and be more tanky? Because right now I'm not a good tank or a good damage dealer, I'm sub-par at both against ANYONE else around MY LEVEL. The other example is Telekinetic Throw or whatever that channeled ability is called for the Consulars. They also can heal and do great damage. As I said, I'm subpar at both tanking and damage dealing when it comes to PvP.

 

You guys are getting delusional because of how the idiotic WZs work. No *********** **** you're going to do good against low levels, I just got 2nd place on my team in damage done for example. I was only able to actually do damage past their own healing abilities against level 30-'s, anyone my level just annihilated me. Level 50's especially, there is one Commando who is 50 who literally 3 shot me with Grav Round all by himself.

[TheronFett]

L2P. Period.

 

You're not playing the class correctly if you can't be viable in PvP as a Powertech, even with a Shieldtech build. Personally, I would recommend taking a look at the 21/2/18 spec if you want to add a lot more DPS without losing much of your defense. Other than that, L2P...seriously.

 

I'm not a hardcore PvPer. Yet I'm usually at the top of the list in kills [AoE] and in the top 25% for damage dealt, and average 6-8 medals per warzone. Someone else said it best: you're a tank. Use your AoE taunt to protect others. Shield your healers. That alone is worth a medal or two. Be smart about positioning and work on strafing. Use LOS and have all kinds of fun using Grapple to pull people into the acid pits in Huttball.