SlickDevlan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 No, you only THINK that I need them. I'm providing evidence to suggest that your argument is completely baseless. Seriously, have you ACTUALLY be in a raid? People still talk in raids you know, even with addons. You make it sound like an addon is a complete replacement for a team. When that is FAR from the truth. Fact: Addons cannot replace an actual human playing the game in a combat encounter. Fact: Addons cannot make up for a player wearing awful gear. Fact: Addons cannot make up for a bad player. They can only assist in a player getting better (see earlier post on this). Fact: People still talk in a team regardless of their use of addons. Fact: Addons are not the work of the devil. Fact: They can and have. Fact: *** has gear got to do with this... Fact: Players can improve without addons. Fact: True, but then again, a group should be talking. Its kinda part of the deal... Fact: Never said they were. All I said was that some addons diminish the role of the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 See, there you go. All you need is a stopwatch, and according to the other guy on here, a competent raid party and you too can clear content. P.S. Do you even read? I know original decursive was banned, but how long was it in play before then? Funny thing is, Decursive was nothing more that a button you could move around your screen and lit up to tell you when someone was "cursed". The player still had to time it right between their usual rotations, the player still had to do the manual activation of the "button". At least, that's how I used it. Seriously, that's hardly the work of the devil now is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToliverGrey Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Developers don't suddenly start making harder content just because people are using addons. Even without add on support, the devs already have all the numbers and meters. Incorrect, because it happened in WoW. Addons made healing, dps, and tanking both more effective and more easy. This caused the top 1% hardcore players to start whining about how the game was way toooooo eaaaaaaasy and developers needed to make it haaaaaaaarder. The final result? Cataclysm, where the bosses had massive quantities of mechanics to keep track of, and most had very tight enrage timers. Instructional videos like Tankspot's could sometimes run 15-20 minutes just to explain a single boss. After all, players had DBM to keep track of the mechanics and recount to monitor raid DPS. Five months into Cata only a small % of guilds had cleared all the bosses of the first tier, and Blizzard had to nerf the content heavily. Don't think addons caused the content to change over time? Compare the raid boss mechanics in Vanilla or even TBS vs. boss mechanics in Cataclysm. Certainly Blizzard is feeling the result as their game starts its subscription collapse. Edited January 7, 2012 by ToliverGrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Incorrect, because it happened in WoW. Addons made healing, dps, and taking all far more effective and easy. This caused the top 1% hardcore players to start whining about how the game was way tooo easy and they needed to make it harder. The final result? Cataclysm, where the bosses had massive quantities of mechanics to keep track of, and most had very tight enrage timers. Instructional videos like Tankspot's could sometimes run 15-20 minutes just to explain a single boss. After all, players had DBM to keep track of the mechanics and recount to monitor raid DPS. Five months into Cata only a small % of guilds had cleared all the bosses of the first tier, and Blizzard had to nerf the content heavily. Don't think addons caused the content to change over time? Compare the raid boss mechanics in Vanilla or even TBS vs. boss mechanics in Cataclysm. Your argument seems to be that you don't like challenging raiding. Am I reading that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Blizzard's lack of promptness is no reason to say addons are bad. Bioware isn't Blizzard. Addons make things more convenient, not easier. You still have to put out the DPS and healing and threat management to down that boss, no matter what your addons are doing. As long as there's no automation (like the original decursive), I just don't see what the problem is. Again, if they are so non-important, why do you guys need them so bad? I get UI modifications and graphical changes, I don't get content assisting "WARNING, WARNING, SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN 5 SECS, IT WILL HAPPEN TO GROUP MEMBER "X"" or "HEY IDIOT USE (insert correct ability here) NOW!!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Fact: They can and have. Fact: *** has gear got to do with this... Fact: Players can improve without addons. Fact: True, but then again, a group should be talking. Its kinda part of the deal... Fact: Never said they were. All I said was that some addons diminish the role of the player. 1) If you're referring to the ones that were regarded as illegal and banned for a LONG time now, then you're just grasping at straws now. My comment was in reference to the "allowed" addons. Not those that have been specifically designed to exploit. 2) True. So what's the problem with having addons? 3) That blows your earlier argument about teams talking right out of the water then doesn't it? Addons don't stop players from talking in a team. 4) Players still have to partake, time their actions, move at the right time. So please ellaborate on how the role of the player is diminished. Edited January 7, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Again, if they are so non-important, why do you guys need them so bad? I get UI modifications and graphical changes, I don't get content assisting "WARNING, WARNING, SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN 5 SECS, IT WILL HAPPEN TO GROUP MEMBER "X"" or "HEY IDIOT USE (insert correct ability here) NOW!!". Personally, I don't NEED them. But nevertheless I recognise how they CAN improve the gameplay experience. Which is more that can be said for those who think they are the bane of MMO's. Oh and btw, that warning you exaggerated, try playing in a raid with VOIP and you'll get something similar from an aggitated raid leader Edited January 7, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Funny thing is, Decursive was nothing more that a button you could move around your screen and lit up to tell you when someone was "cursed". The player still had to time it right between their usual rotations, the player still had to do the manual activation of the "button". At least, that's how I used it. Seriously, that's hardly the work of the devil now is it. This statement has voided any tenuous sense of credibility that you may have had. Thanks for playing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubberKal Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Well, on the one hand, not having addons is a good thing because you can watch the game, instead of a bunch of numbers and timers. A lot of addons really ruin the immersion. On the other hand, they've completely failed to provide a decent UI, thus proving that they probably should let some legit programmers (addon community) create some addons for us to use. Cooldowns of any description ruin the immersion - continually watching cooldowns instead of realizing your pray has just died .. or you did ... Cooldowns mean watching whatever displays their status rather than actually watching the action. RubberKal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToliverGrey Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Your argument seems to be that you don't like challenging raiding. Am I reading that right? I game for casual fun, not for masochism. I used to be a hardcore raider in WoW until I realized I hated everything about it. If you want a hardcore game where people need to grind 4-5 nights a week in wipefests, please develop your own and don't kill the fun us casual gamers are having in SWTOR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) This statement has voided any tenuous sense of credibility that you may have had. Thanks for playing... Lol. And why is that? Because I used Decursive? Shock! Horror! I was obviously too noobish to play without it. Where's the MMO police! It's a fair cop! Stick me in the stocks. WoW. And someone thought that those on the other side of the argument to you were making "elitist" statements You are right though, I am going to leave this ridiculous argument. The exaggerations being made by those against addons are too hilarious to bear any longer. Good night Edited January 7, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Again, if they are so non-important, why do you guys need them so bad? I get UI modifications and graphical changes, I don't get content assisting "WARNING, WARNING, SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN 5 SECS, IT WILL HAPPEN TO GROUP MEMBER "X"" or "HEY IDIOT USE (insert correct ability here) NOW!!". You need to let go of the word "need" and substitute the word "want". Our argument will make sense to you then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Lol. And why is that? Because I used Decursive? Shock! Horror! I was obviously too noobish to play without it. WoW. And someone thought that those on the other side of the argument were making "elitist" statements Yeah, because I'm the one touting a banned addon that actually did perform abilities for you (selecting the correct player and casting the correct magic/disease/poison removal) as fine because you still had to spam a button mindlessly. Oh wait, that was you... Edited January 7, 2012 by SlickDevlan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I game for casual fun, not for masochism. I used to be a hardcore raider in WoW until I realized I hated everything about it. If you want a hardcore game where people need to grind 4-5 nights a week in wipefests, please develop your own and don't kill the fun us casual gamers are having in SWTOR> Umm, this game is already hard-core. Haven't you seen the hard and nightmare modes for endgame raiding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You need to let go of the word "need" and substitute the word "want". Our argument will make sense to you then. Yes, you "want" them for the "convenience" of having to do less to clear content...we get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iResist Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Lol. And why is that? Because I used Decursive? Shock! Horror! I was obviously too noobish to play without it. Where's the MMO police! It's a fair cop! Stick me in the stocks. WoW. And someone thought that those on the other side of the argument to you were making "elitist" statements Decursive is another add-on that made it far easier for healers/others raiding. It doesn't matter if it is the human that still has to press the buttons, just the fact that the information is handed to them on a platter in flashing lights is not something that should be there. This is just an example of why these add-ons became required in raids.... The only add-on's in the game should be for UI customization, not even that, if Bioware makes a good enough customizable one in game. Edited January 7, 2012 by iResist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yes, you "want" them for the "convenience" of having to do less to clear content...we get it. It's just a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes challenge, that's all. I want to fight the boss, you want to fight the UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Decursive is another add-on that made it far easier for healers/others raiding. It doesn't matter if it is the human that still has to press the buttons, just the fact that the information is handed to them on a platter in flashing lights is not something that should be there. This is just an example of why these add-ons became required in raids.... You know, people should really stop using the phrase "handed to them on a platter", because in general, having things in life handed to you on a platter is such a good thing that people pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToliverGrey Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Umm, this game is already hard-core. Haven't you seen the hard and nightmare modes for endgame raiding? And the complaints have already started from hardcores that Nightmare mode is too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 And the complaints have already started from hardcores that Nightmare mode is too easy. No it hasn't because nobody's beat the operations on nightmare yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's just a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes challenge, that's all. I want to fight the boss, you want to fight the UI. No, you want to watch the addon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 No, you want to watch the addon... Actually, the addon frees me from having to stare at the dismally awful UI so I can watch the fight more. Who doesn't want to watch the fight more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToliverGrey Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 No it hasn't because nobody's beat the operations on nightmare yet. "So 2 weeks after the release, all PvE content has been beaten" http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=121895 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 "So 2 weeks after the release, all PvE content has been beaten" http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=121895 Hello, there's a whole 'nother operation yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crohadan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 the rage from the op makes me smile. but if bw hold this cuorse i would be surprised...happy mind you but surprised none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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