"Any game as big and as complex as The Old Republic will have bugs."

[Syas]

Ah yes, I'm not a chef, therefore I'm not allowed to say that something doesn't taste good.

 

THAT old logical fallacy

 

No, you not liking it is fine, you are saying "Well McDonald's gives me a toy with my meal, but this Steak House didn't, clearly they have no idea how to cook a meal".

[ptwonline]

God these AWFUL EXCUSES

 

Saying that because WoW had a rough launch 7 YEARS AGO, it's fine for TOR to have a bad launch is like saying engineers are allowed to use 1920 building techniques because HEY, building a skyscrapers takes a long time!

 

Actually, it's because the issues that WoW faced at launch 7 years ago are the same kinds of issues that any new MMO will face launching today.

[PopPunkRocker]

God these AWFUL EXCUSES

 

Saying that because WoW had a rough launch 7 YEARS AGO, it's fine for TOR to have a bad launch is like saying engineers are allowed to use 1920 building techniques because HEY, building a skyscrapers takes a long time!

 

so then no game should ever have a single bug by your logic because wow is so perfect and bug free? just because it's in the same genre doesn't mean it uses identical technology or identical coding. no game, wow included, should ever need a patch to fix something because, well, wow is so polished.

[Blackwater]

 

Though only a student programmer at university I have yet to code or have seen coded ever a project of only a few thousand lines that does not have bugs...yes perhaps I and everyone I know in the world is a terrible programmer. But at the end of the day whatever you may think the fact remains that a game is a lot of lines of code. I'm not talking 10's of thousands I'm talking more than that. And it's safe to say that a quote, from a few years ago, and without current sources stated something along the lines of "a bug per 1,000 lines of code is industry standard". That may have changed but still most bugs you won't even notice.

 

In anycase people should give them time and a break. Personally this game so far has been the least buggiest game I've played at launch.

You're also not owned by a multi billion dollar, almost TRILLION dollar corporation with hundreds of developers.

 

Your situation is NOT the same

[TitanJJ]

Was that between the server rollbacks, crashes, warping, falling through the ground, bugged mobs, stuck in looting, unable to loot, 1-2 day downtime, missing talent trees, broken abilities, missing talents and casting delay?

 

you know whats funny?

 

the stuck looting and falling through the ground STILL happens all the time in wow.

[Sykologist]

These bugs usually don't alienate a large portion of their player base by bugging out all of their instances.

 

Actually, it did have that too. Hell, it had a bug that pretty much killed everyone in captial cities, causing the servers to shutdown and have it hotfixed.

 

So yes, it did alienate a large portion of their player base

[Blackwater]

No, you not liking it is fine, you are saying "Well McDonald's gives me a toy with my meal, but this Steak House didn't, clearly they have no idea how to cook a meal".

 

....What?

[Barathos]

A new contender for "The dumbest thing I've read on these forums" award...

 

^ amen.

[Draccman]

Quoted from James Ohlen.

 

What don't you people understand about this? The game is huge. It will always have bugs.

 

Do you think you could do any better? If your answer is yes than you know NOTHING about creating video games. You think it is as easy as throwing a game together and not having to worry about bugs?

 

I am going to go out on a limb and say that it is nearly impossible to create a game this large, and not have any bugs...

 

It is quite obvious A LOT of you have no clue what it takes to make a game this size.

 

The game barely has any large bugs either, which is quite impressive. Smooth launch too.

 

MMO's are never finished. If you can't understand this then you are hopeless anyway.

 

People reported bugs 4 months ago in beta and they are still in the game.

 

No large bugs? There was a bug yesterday that allowed people to get INFINITE CREDITS, who knows if its actually fixed yet, but thats a PRETTY BIG BUG. Of course its impossible to create such a huge game and not have bugs, but when tons of bugs are reported in beta and they arent fixed people start to get annoyed. Its like we are paying to beta test for them.

 

This is easily the buggiest game I have ever played, as I am constantly being plagued with bugs. From the wonderful UI randomly going unresponsive, to people seeming to fall off places when they arent or people not actually being where they are ETC ETC. Its not stuff like an item having a bugged tooltip or incorrect stats, its huge gameplay bugs.

 

Its almost like Bioware employees didnt play their game before releasing it. Too busy drinking blood and eating babies courtesy of EA I suppose.

[Grammarye]

Saying that because WoW had a rough launch 7 YEARS AGO, it's fine for TOR to have a bad launch is like saying engineers are allowed to use 1920 building techniques because HEY, building a skyscrapers takes a long time!

I've got news for you. You're comparing a construction ndustry that builds buildings and has been doing so successfully for 7000 years on pretty much the same planet for that same 7000 years to a software industry that's lucky if the foundations on which it builds are the same two years later.

 

I should know, I work in a software industry that services the construction industry.

 

If you were involved in software development at all, and I can understand that you haven't been, you'd know how often this stuff comes up & get debunked. It is an outrageous comparison to say that somehow because seven years ago something worked for some group of people that another group entirely doing something slightly similar today must automatically be better.

 

Also, buildings fall down today too.

You're also not owned by a multi billion dollar, almost TRILLION dollar corporation with hundreds of developers.

 

Your situation is NOT the same

You're operating on the common myth that somehow large numbers of money & people improve software. They don't. Some of the stablest software out there was written by one-man bands.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Grammarye

[Laeris]

No you don't need to be. But I love how so many people drag in metaphors of "if this was a car" well fact is folks, it's not a car. Get over it. Different rules and standards apply to different things, that's always been the way, it always will be the way.

 

Though only a student programmer at university I have yet to code or have seen coded ever a project of only a few thousand lines that does not have bugs...yes perhaps I and everyone I know in the world is a terrible programmer. But at the end of the day whatever you may think the fact remains that a game is a lot of lines of code. I'm not talking 10's of thousands I'm talking more than that. And it's safe to say that a quote, from a few years ago, and without current sources stated something along the lines of "a bug per 1,000 lines of code is industry standard". That may have changed but still most bugs you won't even notice.

 

In anycase people should give them time and a break. Personally this game so far has been the least buggiest game I've played at launch.

 

I Think the standard is more like a bug that has some sort of impact per 1000 lines. Heck, in a game like SWTOR, you're going to have hundreds of thousands of lines of raw code pre compile. There's probably thousands upon thousands of code errors. Most of them don't do anything. They error out and might just be dead end paths that point to a module not yet developed. The end result would have little to no impact on the final product and is therefore transparent to the end-user and to many compilers.

 

But anyway, I'm starting to go full nerd. I should stop

[artilleryshell]

Actually, it did have that too. Hell, it had a bug that pretty much killed everyone in captial cities, causing the servers to shutdown and have it hotfixed.

 

So yes, it did alienate a large portion of their player base

 

I remember that issue, and I gave blizzard the same amount of flak for it.

 

However...

 

I said usually, not always.

[Blackwater]

so then no game should ever have a single bug by your logic because wow is so perfect and bug free? just because it's in the same genre doesn't mean it uses identical technology or identical coding. no game, wow included, should ever need a patch to fix something because, well, wow is so polished.

It shouldn't have bugs like /getdown and then NPCs can't attack you. It shouldn't have bugs that cause thousands of people to crash to desk top on the character screen. It shouldn't have bugs that me and HUNDREDS OF OTHERS REPORTED IN CLOSED BETA

 

And it's not JUST bugs, it's the whole design. Really, no LFG system? Really? REALLY? It's 2012 and you have no LFG system and a barely functioning auction house. And don't even get me started on ilum and the s*** storm that planet has been causing.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Blackwater

[kidbs]

you know whats funny?

 

the stuck looting and falling through the ground STILL happens all the time in wow.

 

You know what's funny?

 

The support at WoW will actually give you the item that you were unable to loot. Hell they will even allow people to accidentally loot and item and then request to transfer it to another person that was there in the raid. Try doing the same thing here and 3 days later you'll get a botted response basically saying "F U we don't care".

 

Other than the initial vanilla launch from WoW, none of the expansions had nearly the amount of bugs that this game has had. Rift has been even better than either of them with regards to bug squashing and they are a new company with a fraction of the resources that Bioware has.

[Oxidda]

I find it interesting that people call this a crappy launch and a "half-baked" product. As its not a crappy launch and not "half-baked".

 

This is, to me, one of the smoothest launches I've ever seen for MMOs. It was on a HUGE scale of players, but the inconvenience was minimum (To me).

 

I also don't really see why this is "half-baked" , how so? I don't get it.

 

No you don't need to be. But I love how so many people drag in metaphors of "if this was a car" well fact is folks, it's not a car. Get over it. Different rules and standards apply to different things, that's always been the way, it always will be the way.

 

Though only a student programmer at university I have yet to code or have seen coded ever a project of only a few thousand lines that does not have bugs...yes perhaps I and everyone I know in the world is a terrible programmer. But at the end of the day whatever you may think the fact remains that a game is a lot of lines of code. I'm not talking 10's of thousands I'm talking more than that. And it's safe to say that a quote, from a few years ago, and without current sources stated something along the lines of "a bug per 1,000 lines of code is industry standard". That may have changed but still most bugs you won't even notice.

 

In anycase people should give them time and a break. Personally this game so far has been the least buggiest game I've played at launch.

 

Also, each 1000 lines of codes has a bug is a fairytale. I do agree on that there are bugs, that a end-user will never notice.

The most nasty (and also good) thing about bugs is that, you only fix the bugs that are noticeable or have been reported. Why would you fix a bug that no one notices? Its not like any developer can make a 100% failsafe program, on a scale like SWTOR.

 

Yes it is certainly possible to make a program without any bugs, but those programs are usually quite small in size.

[Nighenhale]

People reported bugs 4 months ago in beta and they are still in the game.

 

No large bugs? There was a bug yesterday that allowed people to get INFINITE CREDITS, who knows if its actually fixed yet, but thats a PRETTY BIG BUG. Of course its impossible to create such a huge game and not have bugs, but when tons of bugs are reported in beta and they arent fixed people start to get annoyed. Its like we are paying to beta test for them.

 

This is easily the buggiest game I have ever played, as I am constantly being plagued with bugs. From the wonderful UI randomly going unresponsive, to people seeming to fall off places when they arent or people not actually being where they are ETC ETC. Its not stuff like an item having a bugged tooltip or incorrect stats, its huge gameplay bugs.

 

Its almost like Bioware employees didnt play their game before releasing it. Too busy drinking blood and eating babies courtesy of EA I suppose.

 

You are either the most unlucky person alive or this is your first game ever...or your longterm memory is terribly flawed.

[Syas]

It should have bugs like /getdown and then NPCs can't attack you. It shouldn't have bugs that cause thousands of people to crash to desk top on the character screen. It should have bugs that me and HUNDREDS OF OTHERS REPORTED IN CLOSED BETA

 

And it's not JUST bugs, it's the whole design. Really, no LFG system? Really? REALLY? It's 2012 and you have no LFG system and a barely functioning auction house. And don't even get me started on ilum and the s*** storm that planet has been causing.

 

[Sykologist]

People reported bugs 4 months ago in beta and they are still in the game.

 

No large bugs? There was a bug yesterday that allowed people to get INFINITE CREDITS, who knows if its actually fixed yet, but thats a PRETTY BIG BUG. Of course its impossible to create such a huge game and not have bugs, but when tons of bugs are reported in beta and they arent fixed people start to get annoyed. Its like we are paying to beta test for them.

 

This is easily the buggiest game I have ever played, as I am constantly being plagued with bugs. From the wonderful UI randomly going unresponsive, to people seeming to fall off places when they arent or people not actually being where they are ETC ETC. Its not stuff like an item having a bugged tooltip or incorrect stats, its huge gameplay bugs.

 

Its almost like Bioware employees didnt play their game before releasing it. Too busy drinking blood and eating babies courtesy of EA I suppose.

 

Read this ^ then look at their signature. Nothing to see here folks.

[KerythFOS]

then dont release it until its polished, like WOW

 

ROFLMAO

 

Seriously? WoW's bug ridden releases are so notorious there is even a music video about it (Go to youTube and look up Happy Patch Day. It's funny, but all true)

 

I played WoW from vanilla through Cata and remember broken mobs, crashing servers, massive issues on release of the game, expansions, and patches.

[Palanor]

then dont release it until its polished, like WOW

 

Here is the list of bug fixes from the first major patch for WoW. It came about 3 weeks after launch. This doesn't mention all the server fixes but I could log on to my WoW account and cut and paste all the free time my account was given as a result of server side issues. WoW was about the same level of polish when it was released.

 

The human mind remembers good impressions/feeling long term and bad impressions/feeliungs short term. Otherwise we'd never have more than one child.

 

■ A bug with bandages has been fixed. Previously, only the lowest rank bandage (Linen Bandage) was working correctly in that it brought up a channeling bar and required you to remain still while bandaging. All of the other bandage types (Heavy Linen through Heavy Runecloth) were working incorrectly, but have been fixed to operate the same way that Linen Bandages do.

■ Cenarion Vindicators no longer summon Forces of Nature as quickly.

■ Severed Dreamers no longer summon Nightmares as quickly.

■ Several elite creatures that were missing their elite tags have been fixed.

■ Will of the Forsaken is no longer grayed out on the action bar while you are fleeing.

■ The Emerald Dragon Whelp will assist you when summoned.

■ Aquatic creatures will no longer eventually teleport to you if you harass them from land.

■ Undead players will no longer be invisible when they first log in after watching the intro cinematic.

■ Fixed the rotating animations of the crystals in Un'Goro Crater.

■ Reginald Windsor's yell can be heard during The Great Masquerade.

■ Kodos in the Barrens will no longer stomp incessantly while in combat.

■ The Ward of Laze is now summoned at a more appropriate level, instead of level one.

■ Some elite creatures in outdoor areas of the world had higher than normal experience modifiers, and were corrected to award the proper amount of experience.

■ Rare creatures in many of the higher level outdoor zones will now use their appropriate combat abilities.

■ Autoloot has been fixed to work with skinning.

■ Fixed durability display on vendor buyback items.

■ Some creatures in the outdoor world had much less armor than intended. This has been corrected.

■ A bug causing war stomp to not affect some targets within melee range has been fixed.

[Blackwater]

 

I'll be sure to post that on the forums when this game goes under in 3 months

 

Thanks for the link

[BlutigKoch]

"Any game as big and as complex as The Old Republic will have bugs."

 

"Any gaming company as big and as complex as Bioware/EA that can throw $150million in to an MMO should have fixed many of the bugs during Beta" Typical EA, I guess.

[Syas]

I'll be sure to post that on the forums when this game goes under in 3 months

 

Thanks for the link

 

You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath.

[Grammarye]

It should have bugs like /getdown and then NPCs can't attack you. It shouldn't have bugs that cause thousands of people to crash to desk top on the character screen. It should have bugs that me and HUNDREDS OF OTHERS REPORTED IN CLOSED BETA

Roughly halfway through their operational time period, EVE released a patch which wiped out users' boot.ini. They literally rendered the patched PCs unbootable. The idea that somehow post-beta no critical bugs should ever turn up, or indeed just not yet be fixed, is up there with the Cluster spacecraft achieving orbit.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Grammarye

[Blackwater]

You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath.

 

Than i hope you can breath water, cause this ship in sinking, friend.