addons

[Mamono]

NO NO NO NO....... Addons are the single biggest MMO breaker ever. It turns games into single button faceroll games. When RIFT caved and allowed a few addons it marked the beginning of the end. WoW is a lost cause, i dont think 1 single healer on WoW could heal without addons. If WoW were to break all addons they would be out of business ina month. People get dependent on them and forget how to really play their class.

 

What is an addon? How does it work? What kind of addon is alowed?

Many healers in WoW heal without addon. And no, wow is not dead. I guess 10 million people will opose you of that. And no addons in Rift did not "kill" rift.

Rift even have heavy restriction on addons. Just a handfull is alowed atm in the game.

But all you see is Addon, bla bla bla bla bla. And in your mind addon is "bot that playes for you".

 

What do you call an all in one bag addon? does it play the game for you? Or an UI addon that makes you able to move your HP bar around? Do you clame that playes your character?

Or an addon that makes you able to reduce the size of the map? Is that an addon that will play the game for you?

 

Or what about “scrolling combat text? It was an addon in WoW before. Blizzard made it basic to the UI after a while. It was an addon.

Guess what, SWToR has combat scrollin text. Does the numbers over your friends head play the game for you? Does the red numbers over your enemys head play the game for you?

Edited January 12, 2012 by Parali
rude

[guided_by_voices]

customize your UI sure

items like:

recount, DBM or healbot no no no.

 

play the game yourself.

[Mamono]

customize your UI sure

items like:

recount, DBM or healbot no no no.

 

play the game yourself.

 

That is the problem. Ignorant fanboys cant see the difference. For them an addon is an addon no matter what. They have no imagination or knowledge. Be it a map-resize addon or a addon that heals for you automaticly, for them it is one and the same. It is an addon, and addons are bad.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Mamono

[Vankris]

customize your UI sure

items like:

recount, DBM or healbot no no no.

 

play the game yourself.

 

combatlog parsing (aka damage meter) are coming, deal with it

 

source http://www.devilsmmo.com/news/swtor-have-combat-logs

 

quote

 

Georg Zoeller: I have no problem with players min-maxing. I'm min-maxing myself. We do have pretty good... the tooltips are pretty good. The information on the items I think is pretty good. We're right now lacking a bit is in the evaluating your performance or your group's performance. Umm what I can tell you is there's no conspiracy where we're like we're hiding this so people aren't discriminating against other players. If you want to, you know, run a very competitive operations group and you wanna improve, having this data is certainly interesting. Umm and we're not against it, it's just right now not in. Will it make it in for launch? We don't know at this point but it's very high priority.

[Hairless]

What BW needs to do is make addons more accessible. Obviously some people lack the intelligence to download and install addons themselves without getting a virus. It's a daunting task for some.

 

BW needs to make a proprietary website for distributing addons. This doesn't mean 3rd party sites can't distribute addons, unless BW/EA wants to have tighter control.

 

BW needs to make their own addon downloader and installer app, preferably one that works ingame. Integrate into Origin client if you want more people using Origin.

 

They just need to make addons more secure and easier to get.

[AlpsStranger]

What BW needs to do is make addons more accessible. Obviously some people lack the intelligence to download and install addons themselves without getting a virus. It's a daunting task for some.

 

BW needs to make a proprietary website for distributing addons. This doesn't mean 3rd party sites can't distribute addons, unless BW/EA wants to have tighter control.

 

BW needs to make their own addon downloader and installer app, preferably one that works ingame. Integrate into Origin client if you want more people using Origin.

 

They just need to make addons more secure and easier to get.

 

Honestly, why not just have an addon tab right in the client? This might be a little tricky from a software engineering perspective, but Civ5 managed to do it.

[guided_by_voices]

People against addons: Non competitive players, casuals, carebears

People for addons: Competitive players, hardcore players, people that take an added interest in performing well and optimizing.

 

It's as simple as that.

 

sorry but how can you consider yourself hardcore when you install something to make the game easier?

 

people against addons: problem solvers, want a challenge, don't ask for help at the first sign of trouble

 

people for addons: lazy, cannot think for themselves, have ego problems, afraid they might not be as good as they think they are.

[Karbardin]

Warhammer Online: The Age of Reckoning had one of the best customizable UIs ever. It's hard to phathom why the same thing was not implemented in SWTOR, being that they own Warhammer and had Mythic/Bioware employees designing the game.

[Revenaught]

People against addons: Non competitive players, casuals, carebears

People for addons: Competitive players, hardcore players, people that take an added interest in performing well and optimizing.

 

It's as simple as that.

I find i disagree with your assessment. From what i can see the positions are reversed.

 

People for Addons seem to me to be the people too casual to learn the game and need help telling them what to do when.

People against Addons seem to be the people willing to learn the game as it is and adapt to it to suceed.

 

 

UI customization would be nice but you don't need an addon for that. BW will take care of that in due time.

[GoldPush]

sorry but how can you consider yourself hardcore when you install something to make the game easier?

You're incorrect.

 

Ok, does a speedometer in a car make driving easier? No, it gauges and gives you MORE DATA to work with.

 

It's a tool, it doesn't make it easier it gives you more data to perform better.

 

 

As a sentinel I would LOVE to be able to have a HUD where I can have cooldowns flash and show focus. Would it make it easier? The difference is I could hold my focus on my char more and not divert my eyes much meaning I could PERFORM BETTER because I have more data available THE WAY I WANT IT.

 

Is blind chess more skilled than chess? Why don't all chess matches happen as blindmatches where you can't see the other sides pieces and have to remember? Why is Go played with white and black stones professionally instead of one-coloured Go?

 

There is a difference between making something being TEDIOUS and HARD.

 

people against addons: problem solvers, want a challenge, don't ask for help at the first sign of trouble

OK. So for me to find out what is the best rotation and spec for my character instead of having a damagemeter and testing it out and noting down the dmg and dps and finding the average with a statistically high enough number I'll have to write a simulator to compute the averages and run them...

 

Is combat spec or watchman more dmg? How much will dots do, when is it best to refresh, which talent boosts dps more, which fights will X spec do better on etc etc.

 

Is formula 1 an easy sport? They have on-board computers that gauge EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING. From tire pressure to breaking pressure to wheel turning in every goddman corner just to increase a split second. Guess it's an easy sport.

 

people for addons: lazy, cannot think for themselves, have ego problems, afraid they might not be as good as they think they are.

Opposite, people for addons are the ones that don't want to carry lazyasses that can't perform.

 

Cannot think for themselves? I'll give you a day to compute all the specs, rotations and possibilities of sentinel. Oh and I also want to know how much X item contributes over Y item. This should be easy because you're so good.

 

I'll also let you challenge me in any computergame, give me 1 week to practice...

[xNonphixionx]

sorry but how can you consider yourself hardcore when you install something to make the game easier?

 

people against addons: problem solvers, want a challenge, don't ask for help at the first sign of trouble

 

people for addons: lazy, cannot think for themselves, have ego problems, afraid they might not be as good as they think they are.

 

I agree completely.

 

Most.."MOST" players that want add ons are not nearly as good as they think they are. More than likely Ex-WOW players that cannot function without a program coaching them. Addons from WOW like decursive and healbot totally make really bad players seem better.

 

I can just see it now! There will be an addon for Bounty Hunter healers that says "DING DING DING STOP HEALING OR YOU WILL START TO OVERHEAT!" So the way it is now...That BH healer will keep spamming heals, overheat, then wipe their group. WITH the addon they will play right...And "appear" to be a good healer.

 

There would be the same addon for snipers too..."YOUR ENERGY IS ABOUT TO DIP BELOW 50!!! STOP DPS FOR 5 SECONDS AND AUTO ATTACK OR YOU'll RUN OUT OF ENERGY!"

[AlpsStranger]

I agree completely.

 

Most.."MOST" players that want add ons are not nearly as good as they think they are. More than likely Ex-WOW players that cannot function without a program coaching them. Addons from WOW like decursive and healbot totally make really bad players seem better.

 

I can just see it now! There will be an addon for Bounty Hunter healers that says "DING DING DING STOP HEALING OR YOU WILL START TO OVERHEAT!" So the way it is now...That BH healer will keep spamming heals, overheat, then wipe their group. WITH the addon they will play right...And "appear" to be a good healer.

 

There would be the same addon for snipers too..."YOUR ENERGY IS ABOUT TO DIP BELOW 50!!! STOP DPS FOR 5 SECONDS AND AUTO ATTACK OR YOU'll RUN OUT OF ENERGY!"

 

 

Having the UI be the primary enemy is clearly the best way to show who's good at the game.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Parali
rude, already warned

[xNonphixionx]

You're incorrect.

 

Ok, does a speedometer in a car make driving easier? No, it gauges and gives you MORE DATA to work with.

 

It's a tool, it doesn't make it easier it gives you more data to perform better.

 

 

As a sentinel I would LOVE to be able to have a HUD where I can have cooldowns flash and show focus. Would it make it easier? The difference is I could hold my focus on my char more and not divert my eyes much meaning I could PERFORM BETTER because I have more data available THE WAY I WANT IT.

 

Is blind chess more skilled than chess? Why don't all chess matches happen as blindmatches where you can't see the other sides pieces and have to remember? Why is Go played with white and black stones professionally instead of one-coloured Go?

 

There is a difference between making something being TEDIOUS and HARD.

 

 

OK. So for me to find out what is the best rotation and spec for my character instead of having a damagemeter and testing it out and noting down the dmg and dps and finding the average with a statistically high enough number I'll have to write a simulator to compute the averages and run them...

 

Is combat spec or watchman more dmg? How much will dots do, when is it best to refresh, which talent boosts dps more, which fights will X spec do better on etc etc.

 

Is formula 1 an easy sport? They have on-board computers that gauge EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING. From tire pressure to breaking pressure to wheel turning in every goddman corner just to increase a split second. Guess it's an easy sport.

 

 

Opposite, people for addons are the ones that don't want to carry lazyasses that can't perform.

 

Cannot think for themselves? I'll give you a day to compute all the specs, rotations and possibilities of sentinel. Oh and I also want to know how much X item contributes over Y item. This should be easy because you're so good.

 

I'll also let you challenge me in any computergame, give me 1 week to practice...

 

Worste example EVER...The comparison would be more like...Playing Chess normally, without addons, or playing chess with a computer telling you what move to make next.

 

I have to ask though...Are you saying you cant see the cooldowns of your skills? Is that why you mention "blind chess"? Pro-Tip...You can see the cooldowns of your skills on your hotbar yo! I figured you'd know this seeing as how you're a clicker and all.

 

 

Oh and LMAO at the challenge in any computer game. It's like he has something to prove..."I want ADDONS to coach me! But im not bad!!! Believe me I'm not! You still dont believe me?! Then lets play Call of Duty and you'll see how good I am!"

[GoldPush]

Most.."MOST" players that want add ons are not nearly as good as they think they are. More than likely Ex-WOW players that cannot function without a program coaching them. Addons from WOW like decursive and healbot totally make really bad players seem better.

I'll refer you to the reply I made to the person you're quoting.

 

Oh BTW Blizzard started creating encounters catering to addons.

 

Again, people saying things like you are casual players using ad hominem argumentation. I can play this game, "People using arguments like you think you're good when you want addons are people suffering from Dunning-Kruger and a general limited intellect".

[xNonphixionx]

The sheer eloquence of your Jr. High gang-beating debate style is hard to argue with. Such substance to your arguments too.

 

Having the UI be the primary enemy is clearly the best way to show who's good at the game.

 

You're having trouble with the UI? Interesting because good players arent. Sure it could be more customizable...But is it effecting my performance? Absolutely not. Learn to use keybinds instead of clicking like a bad and you wouldnt even notice the UI in combat.

 

Conclusion? Bads will be bads.

 

When I'm fighting...I always thought the UI totally disappears...I mean who looks at their UI other than clickers during combat? ONly reason I'd EVER look at my UI is to see a cooldown timer....Even then it's not hard to know when it's down/up. Like...Do clickers like the above poster continuously click skills even though they are on cooldown? Do you need an addon to say "STOP CLICKING THAT SKILL, ITS ON COOLDOWN!"

[Rayvonuk]

People against addons: Non competitive players, casuals, carebears

People for addons: Competitive players, hardcore players, people that take an added interest in performing well and optimizing.

 

It's as simple as that.

 

Rubbish, an mmo is about the community, not optimization.

Its possible to be competative without having to get a program to do everything for you, the best players were always the ones that did the same as us, but without add ons anyway.

I would rather see a combat log added and a customizable UI, before introducing add ons.

[Sendrel]

Conclusion? Bads will be bads.

 

If I say to you that I'm cool with you thinking I'm horribad at a video game for wanting to use addons, would you come up with an actual argument against them?

[AlpsStranger]

If I say to you that I'm cool with you thinking I'm horribad at a video game for wanting to use addons, would you come up with an actual argument against them?

 

Nah, he'll just use more exclamation marks and call you a keyboard turner or something.

[xNonphixionx]

I have to ask though...Why do people take being called a "clicker" as an insult? If someone called me a clicker I'd laugh and be like "yeah...no lol". Only REAL clickers get offended by being called clickers. Edited January 12, 2012 by Parali
bad quote in reply

[GoldPush]

Worste example EVER...The comparison would be more like...Playing Chess normally, without addons, or playing chess with a computer telling you what move to make next.

 

I have to ask though...Are you saying you cant see the cooldowns of your skills? Is that why you mention "blind chess"? Pro-Tip...You can see the cooldowns of your skills on your hotbar yo! I figured you'd know this seeing as how you're a clicker and all.

No absolutely not. Addons don't tell you WHAT TO DO NEXT, it gives you data to react to or interpret.

 

If I'm to follow your thread it would be more aching to

 

Without addons: Having to read what the opponent played then move the pieces yourself on the chessboard on a remote location

With addons: The board shows you where he moved the piece.

 

Yes you can see your cooldowns on your hotbar. I'm doing it now, but anyone that has PVPd a bit (a lot) or raided hardmodes in a game know that it's very important to be able to constantly follow where your character is in the space (spatial awareness) and having to move your eyes focalpoint from middle of screen to hotkeys 24-7 (especially when they don't fire of half the time due to bugs) is detrimental to aforementioned act. Not to mention I have CDs that will randomly reset due to procs. I can deal with it, anyone will perform better though if we could move the CDs to where we wanted.

 

Oh and LMAO at the challenge in any computer game. It's like he has something to prove..."I want ADDONS to coach me! But im not bad!!! Believe me I'm not! You still dont believe me?! Then lets play Call of Duty and you'll see how good I am!"

OMAGAD LMAO **** HAHAHA 2k PLZ K L BYE! ! Dude, I was also 16 and a knowitall on the internet once, it's all good. You do understand that your ramblings and childish antics severely lowers any merit your arguments may have?

 

Him and you are the ones that call my wish for addons a lack of skill, obviously you are better. You're using fallacious arguments so why not put your money where your mouth is? You have absolutely no idea or any perceivable notion of my level of skill or gaming history so for you to belittle it so easily just makes you ignorant.

Edited January 12, 2012 by GoldPush

[GoldPush]

Rubbish, an mmo is about the community, not optimization.

Its possible to be competative without having to get a program to do everything for you, the best players were always the ones that did the same as us, but without add ons anyway.

I would rather see a combat log added and a customizable UI, before introducing add ons.

No, community means absolutely nothing outside of the guild. Really. I've been in my fair share of guilds and the amount of belittling and backtalk of other guilds is mind-numbing.

 

I do find that the community comes somewhat into play in PVP, I recognize who I like to play with and who's clued up.

 

 

I've never asked for any addon to "play the game for me". I'm asking for dmgmeters, cooldown flashes, the ability to move and represent my sentinels focusbar better near the middle of the screen. I want to setup my UI so my focal point is always in the middle of the screen near my player with good audio-visual cues I can react to.

[AlpsStranger]

I have to ask though...Why do people take being called a "clicker" as an insult? If someone called me a clicker I'd laugh and be like "yeah...no lol". Only REAL clickers get offended by being called clickers.

 

1) You said it in an insulting way. You meant it as an insult and anybody could see that.

 

2) It's contextually obvious that "clicking" is not generally considered skillful play in an MMORPG. I wouldn't consider being called a "clicker" an insult at the bus stop, but in this context it is.

[Rattius]

I would have denied you to if you didn't have the correct adds specially if i were doing 25 man... just know you weren't a serious WoW player, which in turn not a very big game player of this sort... anyway didn't want to trash talk but seriously things are needed... maybe i am to new to this game but i can't even use my num lock #'s? is this correct? a simple use of num lock numbers? this is the reason some people want these adds because the game doesn't provide a way of you playing the game in a comfortable position. and on top of that poeple would like to know if they are performing well when killing a boss of some sort to see if they have to step it up or your doing fine... its not to ruin the game it is to make the game comfortable for the player... and beside sorry to say but i believe WoW has like 10 million accounts? so maybe you should stop trash talking and take in some of there success from the past. BC had adds WoTLK had adds so yea... the set up of the UI not being able to use you num lock buttons is a big deal...

 

I don't know if you realize it or not, but your statement backs-up his assertion.

 

If they make threat meters and heal bots et al possible, the argument many use... "You don't have to use them" is bunk because people like you will require their use.

 

Additionally, content will be trivialized, you will QQ because every scrub PUG on the server will be facerolling, then the devs will be forced to design content taking your crutches into consideration. Then addons will not only be required by people like you, they will be required by the content itself.

 

Oh, by the way OP, there's only like 5,000 threads a day on this topic posted by wow'ers like yourself. Welcome to the swtor boards.

[guided_by_voices]

*yawn*

 

I'm absolutely devastated by your ridiculous amateur psychoanalysis.

 

No, really. I am.

 

I stare at the ceiling at night fearful that some random person from the internet thinks I can't think for myself.

 

I should totally change my opinion based on your insults. That's what people who can think for themselves do, right?

 

sorry to bore you Alps but as you have been so pro addons i can see why you wouldn't like my posts. as for insults well did you read the post i was responding to?

[FreezePeach]

I want to believe that, I really do. But all too often in WoW I was denied access to raids simply because I did not use any Add Ons. Making it less my "choice" and something the majority of players decided was a necessity.

 

To answer your question, no add ons yet. But Bioware might add them at a later point.

 

Consequences for choices.

 

You choose not to use deadly boss mods.

They choose not to bring someone who, experience tells them, will probably stand in fire.

 

Is your beef really with the add ons? Or with the people who wouldn't let you play with them?