ferroz Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Companions are a part of your gameplay until you come to end game and want to do hard modes and operations..Hey, what a coincidence, so is the gear that I'm rolling on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eegorr Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 3a. If the only one who objects is the one player in the group who can use it, I'm going to conclude they're trying to stack the deck and get situational exclusivity on their gear. I'll roll Need regardless of their objection. .... jeeessus.... or it could be that that person actually needs it, whereas your companion doesn't. That guy can't win. If he says he minds then he's 'stacking the deck' and you need, if he doesn't mind you need anyway. The only reason to roll need would be if a person that couldn't use the gear would object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleCoilPickup Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Needing something for your companion is a horrible horrible precedent to start. You should NEVER roll need for a companion. The end result is going to be EVERYONE rolling need on EVERYTHING because you can't prove they don't need it as an upgrade for their companion. They can just say its a companion upgrade and then vendor it for the cash or RE it for the mats or pull the mods out of it. You're asking for a lot of trouble by starting a trend like this Then take it up with Bioware for forcing companions that need constant upgrades on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiracle Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Then Bioware should change companions to not need gear. /thread. If your companion wasn't in the group then why are they more important than the other 3 people in the group? Using your logic then everything that can hurt someone should not be made because it is easier to not make them item vs asking people to act responsibly. Edited January 6, 2012 by Amiracle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleCoilPickup Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 .... jeeessus.... or it could be that that person actually needs it, whereas your companion doesn't. That guy can't win. If he says he minds then he's 'stacking the deck' and you need, if he doesn't mind you need anyway. The only reason to roll need would be if a person that couldn't use the gear would object. Well then that guy rolls also and the two of them have an equal chance of getting the item. This is really a non-issue that you're all foaming at the mouth about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadiva Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 The short answer is yes. You should always defer to someone if they intend to equip it themselves. If no one else can use it, I don't see the problem with that. This. If there is someone there who will be using on their own character they take priority. I would never roll need on an item my companion could use, always greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellOfish Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hey, what a coincidence, so is the gear that I'm rolling on. Sure, go on. See then how many times it's going to come back and bite you in the *** when someone kick you from the group. I do not mind, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenich Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I ran into this the other day running through a flash point. I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that. I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot. Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion? I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions. My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1. Were you using your companion in the flashpoint? If so, you have an argument as your companion was providing a role within the group. If not, then keep in mind that your companion was not helping the group, the players present were and so only those who contributed should be claiming need within the group. You could always ask if anyone would mind, but expecting to have equal roll on an item for a character to which had no part in the success of the group is absurd. Your argument is centered around your "soloing" and the fact is, the group running the flashpoint has no concern for what you do outside of that group, nor should they be concerned. It is a group mission, not a solo one. Group dynamics should be the governing factor of the loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florial Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) I find it curious that we're (myself included) actually arguing about this, when it's all going to come down to what we personally choose to do in the moment. My approach to it is simple: 1. I consider my companions a valid upgrade path equal in importance to my character. 2. I only use two of my companions, out of the total four I have right now. 3. If an upgrade for either of those companions drops, I will personally ask the group if they mind me rolling Need for my companion. 3a. If the only one who objects is the one player in the group who can use it, I'm going to conclude they're trying to stack the deck and get situational exclusivity on their gear. I'll roll Need regardless of their objection. 3b. If the general party says "no', I'm likely to agree with them, unless it's such a stellar and amazing companion upgrade that I can't let it fly by without trying for it. In that case, I'll deal with any consequences for my choice without complaint. This is how I personally choose to play. You're all welcome to play how you personally choose to. /thread I agree that one is entitled to play however they want to play. As long as you are within the codes of conduct, you are golden. Let me ask you this though and I'm doing this in a respecful way since I like to keep things rather civil. Are you in a guild and would you do this in your guild? If you are, say we have a tank trying to gear up for future flashpoints, operations, etc. If you are in there rolling need on things for your tank companion over a guild tank, would you use the same arguments? How would the guild tank feel about this? (not even sure what class you are playing in game---just using this as an example). Take my spouse as an example---he is always leading groups in guilds and we often offer our services as tank/healer. A better geared tank in a group often means a better run for everyone. If Susie DPS was rolling on tank gear that was an upgrade for the tank , Susie would probably not be invited back to our groups and we would probably mention something to the GL (hoping that Susie was not his wife, lol). PUGs are funny things. Many play in a PUG as if they will never see the player again and probably won't. Therefore, some adopt the attitude of every man/woman for themselves and operate that way. If you are a completely solo player and a lone wolf (not in a guild or group with regular folks), I can see a bit more of a mercenary attitude about things. But in a guild, I would be surprised if your method didn't result in some repercussions. Just curious. Edited January 6, 2012 by Florial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleCoilPickup Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If your companion wasn't in the group then why are they more important than the other 3 people in the group? As others have said, the companion, as far as I'm concerned, is an extension of my character. Gear for a companion is no different than something I need for me, regardless of if I'm using that particular tool at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanomancer Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Then Bioware should change companions to not need gear. /thread. you know there is greed and the large variety of other ways to get gear you know without being an absolute **** rolling need for your companion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If someone in the group rolls need on a healer item for their companion guess what I do. I let them bring out their companion to heal them, because its obvious by their actions they don't want me healing them. If the group is full with players, I hope they brought some meds and know how to dump agro. If you tell everyone ahead of time, I have little issue with it. I am sure members of the group not involved woth the loot role might be a little miffed when people start dropping for an unstated reason. It would also be a more effective deterrant before the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miamivice Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 So you want everyone to check all your gear and then decide if they roll for the item that is an upgrade for them? Yeah, sure... Companions are a part of your gameplay until you come to end game and want to do hard modes and operations. But with the mindset of rolling on other people's **** the companion might just as well be the only one left to group with you. I am not suggesting that at all. Just saying if people are suggesting to be fair and let people get gear that will help them tank or heal or dd or whatever. Then its the same thing to think this item will help me a little but it could help that other person alot more so I wont select need. True endgame with raids I would be with real people. but if someone has mostly endgame gear except for 1 item and I have none, then they should ask the group and see if anyone really needs it, or ask me if it would be a really good upgrade. cause his gear over all is still better even without that 1 item he is missing. In the end people will do what they want to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norumaniac Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 The short answer is yes. You should always defer to someone if they intend to equip it themselves. If no one else can use it, I don't see the problem with that. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edryk Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Just remember your actions may affect how easily you can find a group next time you need to do something. There's no cross server, completely anonymous, 'I'll never see the person again' groups in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikandar Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Why not just give them (companions) some hand me down orange gear and spend leftover planet commendations upgrading it. I started doing that on Nar Shadaa and more times than not my companions are almost geared as I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleCoilPickup Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 you know there is greed and the large variety of other ways to get gear you know without being an absolute **** rolling need for your companion It's only your opinion that I'm some kind of jerk for rolling need for a companion. The opinions of a small minority of players in a video game are of very little consequence in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzPop Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 But your group mates don't OWE you anything. They don't OWE you the only roll on the loot because you say you need it. This crazy sense of entitlement that you guys think people should just fall on the proverbial sword as far as loot goes is flipping crazy. Again, if I'm in that group with you, I did just as much work as you did, if not more. That means I have equal rights to the loot. It's of no consequence what my purpose for the loot is, and it's not like I can steal it from you like you guys are acting like. You have an equal chance of getting it if you roll need. I have no obligation to roll over and give you the only roll on the loot just because in your head your needs are more important than mine. And we have equal rights to the loot which qualifies as an upgrade for you. If you truly believe in what you're saying, then you would no objection whatsoever when we roll against your upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellOfish Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 As others have said, the companion, as far as I'm concerned, is an extension of my character. Gear for a companion is no different than something I need for me, regardless of if I'm using that particular tool at the moment. But that "extension of your character" did not contribute to the flashpoint whatsoever. It benfits only and only you when you are playing solo. If you are so concerned about that part of your character then go farm for him. You are claiming that the companion is very much part of your character yet this part has absolutely no role in completing the instance. Stop being a selfish *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiss-Reeno Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If i rolled NEED, and got higher number then others, noone need to know what will i do with this item. Give to companion, trash, RE, sell, or anything else. This is MY luck in drop. Move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleCoilPickup Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 And we have equal rights to the loot which qualifies as an upgrade for you. If you truly believe in what you're saying, then you would no objection whatsoever when we roll against your upgrades. And you're correct, I would not. This is exactly as far as the thought process goes with me and loot: 1. I see loot. 2. I see the stats are significantly better than mine and/or my primary companion (mainly Khem Val, I don't care about Andronikas). 3. I roll Need. 4. Some other dude rolls Need. 5. Some other dude wins. 6. I think to myself "Damn, too bad, I wanted that one. I'll have to try again next time." 7. I go on with my life. 8. I never think about losing that particular piece of loot again ever in my life because it's so insignificant that it's not worth getting upset about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseaton Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I hope that the people who roll need for companions over people in the group who can use it for their character are not on my server so I never have to worry about grouping with you. I will drop the group, never group with that person again, and make sure to spread the news as much as possible among guildmates and on the server. I don't give a crap if you're a tank, healer, or the best DPS on the server -- that doesn't entitle you to any special treatment. I'm really sad that people here are advocating this as an acceptable practice and actually think people should agree with this. Social contracts exist for a reason, and while I am OK with challenging the status quo against unfair practices, this is not an unfair practice/social contract! Advocating this position is nothing but pure greed and it's disgusting. For people rolling need for companions: 1) Ask, ideally politely. 2) Make sure no one in the group needs it for their character. Is that so much to ask? Such close minded. This is a different MMO. People like me are in a PVE server and use my companion alot. I understand end game content because you don't really use your companion as much anymore but leveling, I use my compnanion for everything. Me and my companion have a special bond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleCoilPickup Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 But that "extension of your character" did not contribute to the flashpoint whatsoever. It benfits only and only you when you are playing solo. If you are so concerned about that part of your character then go farm for him. You are claiming that the companion is very much part of your character yet this part has absolutely no role in completing the instance. Stop being a selfish *****. I don't care if it did or didn't, and I don't consider myself selfish and don't care if you consider me selfish just because you're butthurt that I got gear that you wanted. My companion is still valid because without it, I wouldn't be leveled to where I am and I wouldn't be of any use to the group. In order to keep myself leveled and useful to groups, I have to do solo quests and need my companion, therefore, he needs to be geared. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocketthesaurus Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I say roll on whatever you want. You might need money for example the item can bring you. That would be "greed". If anybody feels entitled here, it'd be the people who think they can roll need for something that someone else actually needs more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenich Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 As others have said, the companion, as far as I'm concerned, is an extension of my character. Gear for a companion is no different than something I need for me, regardless of if I'm using that particular tool at the moment. Yet if you are not using the companion in the flashpoint, then it is not an extension of your character because it is not being used. It is no different than the "alt" argument of people who want to roll on loot for their alt equally with those in the group. Your alt isn't there doing the content, so why should they have a roll? If you are going to say that it is still a need when it isn't contributing, then this is what leads to the logic of those who need everything because they claim that even if they vendor the item, it makes them money and they need money. Sure, in a strange missing the point type of way, it would be a valid position, but then the result is simply... need by everyone for everything. If you are ok with that, well... fine... but rarely have I met those who would accept the fact that someone rolled on something they really needed simply to vendor it for a few extra coins. In fact, I have never met a person that did. Usually they were all about them rolling need with obscure reasoning and when they lost an major item due to such, they threw a tantrum. In the end, my friends and I don't deal with people like that. We run the groups, we make the rules and if people don't like it, they can solo that 4 man heroic when it is grey. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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